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Post by JadingTsunami on Aug 17, 2024 9:00:07 GMT -5
Seemingly kraflab just had their real name removed from the wiki. Strange, huh? Guess it goes to show how safe in the community one feels once they're on DW mods' watchlist. Interesting. It seems that was done at kraflab's request, if I'm reading that right. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 17, 2024 9:06:41 GMT -5
yet it is still present in full in at least several articles.
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Nockson
Doomer
DoomWiki editor
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Post by Nockson on Aug 17, 2024 9:34:42 GMT -5
Yes, it seems there was a request. I've removed his real name from several "main" articles. All that's left is his speedrunning records in some levels. These will be fixed semi-automatically later today by other editor.
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Post by camper on Aug 17, 2024 12:17:27 GMT -5
But you also need item (things) tables and texture tables. In this context, I drew attention to this technical proposal. |
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Aug 17, 2024 12:23:21 GMT -5
it's crazy how so much of this has blown up on doomworld, but there is almost no mention of it anywhere on YouTube. The closest thing i heard so far was Dwars briefly calling this the 'skyrimification' of Doom. Anyone else have anything?
Im trying to understand what the hold is that doomworld has on its members when a bunch of source port devs are getting banned for protesting this, and so many doomtubers have made their following by playing doom with their source ports.
not even midnight who has pivoted to exclusively controversy-seeking clickbait the past 5 years doesn't have any thoughts about this?
Coincident wrote a huge scathing criticism of Dynamo's decision to ban kraflab in a post on doomworld, and then yesterday uploads a playthrough of pirate doom like this isnt weighing on him at all. this shit is all really confusing.
im tempted to reopen world extermination radio over this.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Aug 17, 2024 12:30:08 GMT -5
My guess is that the subject material isn't that easy to understand. Most people don't even seem to "get" what's going on in any of the threads on the topic; there's a bunch of "what is happening; I read the whole thread and still don't understand" posts.
The non-technical audience just sees they get a new Doom drop with new stuff, and they can load mods on their Xbox now. The rest is probably noise to them at this point.
Just my guess; I am in no way claiming to know the answer here.
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thelokk
Doomer
Posts: 495
Member is Online
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Post by thelokk on Aug 17, 2024 12:36:12 GMT -5
My guess is that the subject material isn't that easy to understand. Most people don't even seem to "get" what's going on in any of the threads on the topic; there's a bunch of "what is happening; I read the whole thread and still don't understand" posts. The non-technical audience just sees they get a new Doom drop with new stuff, and they can load mods on their Xbox now. The rest is probably noise to them at this point. Just my guess; I am in no way claiming to know the answer here. Inclined to agree. Doomtubers like decino or Dwars are the exception rather than the rule: most others play and upload Doom content as if it was any other game. They have little perception, understanding or interest for what happens under the hood, or the community in general. Many don't even participate in the community at all, and might not even know there is a situation going on. Doubt we'll see BigMacDavis weighing in on the id24 debacle anytime soon. |
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 504
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Aug 17, 2024 13:20:38 GMT -5
I think outside of the average person only caring about firing up some multiplayer on their console a lot of the people who do care are probably sinking into the apathy I predicted. I mean, what are they going to do? Doomword is going to doomworld and corpos are going to corpo, there's no stopping it. It's like the tower of babel, just let it all fall. We have shelter in the outskirts, like many dissenters. If the nukes start flying we'll all be able to crawl out of our caves to rebuild society when the time comes. Or maybe I'm just way too tired to be thinking right now. im tempted to reopen world extermination radio over this. Nobody's carrying the mantle of that format for Doom anymore so I honestly think you really should consider it, even outside of this specific topic. If it's something you'd be able to find time and motivation for. |
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Post by Moonsweeper on Aug 17, 2024 16:27:35 GMT -5
it's crazy how so much of this has blown up on doomworld, but there is almost no mention of it anywhere on YouTube. The closest thing i heard so far was Dwars briefly calling this the 'skyrimification' of Doom. Anyone else have anything? Im trying to understand what the hold is that doomworld has on its members when a bunch of source port devs are getting banned for protesting this, and so many doomtubers have made their following by playing doom with their source ports. not even midnight who has pivoted to exclusively controversy-seeking clickbait the past 5 years doesn't have any thoughts about this? Coincident wrote a huge scathing criticism of Dynamo's decision to ban kraflab in a post on doomworld, and then yesterday uploads a playthrough of pirate doom like this isnt weighing on him at all. this shit is all really confusing. im tempted to reopen world extermination radio over this. They know they wouldn't be as successful if they took one side or the other, because the other side would try to boycott them. And Midnight is functionally illiterate, he can read and write, but he doesn't comprehend anything. He only uses the Doom Reddit and wouldn't understand a more complex matter like this. |
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Aug 17, 2024 18:23:53 GMT -5
lol if kraflab decides to migrate here I'll rename this place to DSDAoomer Boards somebody, please, tell kraflab that we have a nazi hat and swastica-shaped cookies for him! just to watch how DW people would try to talk about DSDA without mentioning DB. i want to see it! lol its 1000% never going to happen. There is a fairly sizeable percentage of speedrunners who hate the site and some of its members fervidly for various reasons. The active speedrun community was waffling about jettisoning off of DW and opening their own forum over all this nonsense. Hopefully they find the cojones to do so, but as time ticks on, I think its less and less likely. I tried to follow the DW thread, but there is just too damn much to read and most of it is pretty boring. Plus its kinda confusing with all the splits. My opinion is that the bans were pretty overzealous and a big lol at the idiot banning kraf for blackmail. Its pretty obvious they have no idea how blackmail works, since it usually requires both a threat to expose something from the perpetrator and also a demand of value from the victim. I didn't see either in the thread, but who knows, maybe it was deleted or split into another topic so I will leave open the possibility that maybe I just missed it. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 17, 2024 19:14:28 GMT -5
that "blackmail" was exactly what summarized in thread later: kraflab wrote that he knows some things essel told about him behind his back, and therefore he doesn't believe in essel's good intentions, or even neutrality. literally that. that's what DW moderators and their close… ahem… close… nevermind are calling "blackmail". "you should never know what we are really thinking about you, and you should never tell others that you know!"
i have some such "blackmail" about me too, btw. it is not that hard, lol.
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Post by hex11 on Aug 17, 2024 20:35:15 GMT -5
The active speedrun community was waffling about jettisoning off of DW and opening their own forum over all this nonsense. Hopefully they find the cojones to do so, but as time ticks on, I think its less and less likely. Why don't they just use the newsgroups listed in the Doom FAQ? You can't ban anyone on Usenet, but instead every client has filtering options. I'm pretty sure people used to post demos and wads on the Doom binaries group too. And as far as readability goes, it's 1000 times better than any web forum. |
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Post by Bob Page on Aug 17, 2024 22:50:17 GMT -5
it's crazy how so much of this has blown up on doomworld, but there is almost no mention of it anywhere on YouTube. The closest thing i heard so far was Dwars briefly calling this the 'skyrimification' of Doom. Anyone else have anything? |
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,105
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Post by 40oz on Aug 18, 2024 0:33:51 GMT -5
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Post by Bob Page on Aug 18, 2024 0:51:11 GMT -5
Yeah no problem. I'm just glad that there's someone on YouTube that spoke explicitly about ID24. And I think the person raised a good point about the fact that Romero or perhaps others would've likely released the new assets for free at some point. It makes sense that they may have been instructed not to by Bethesda or whoever, so that the assets could be put behind a paywall and drip-fed in stages. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 18, 2024 1:05:06 GMT -5
Romero definitely wanted to release everything. and he started doing that. and the only reason i could think of the sudden stop is… you prolly know it too. now, instead of getting all the assets for free (and with the right to modify/reuse them), they are behind the copyrighted paywall. i.e. they are basically useless. thank you, bethesda.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,342
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Post by SilverMiner on Aug 18, 2024 1:55:22 GMT -5
These id1 and idvault resources can't be used in mods?
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thelokk
Doomer
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Post by thelokk on Aug 18, 2024 3:41:10 GMT -5
These id1 and idvault resources can't be used in mods? They can. From what I understand, the issue is that Bethesda and its DW shill didn't want them to be released as a 'stand alone' - aka an alpha respack. I remember Xaser explicitly saying in the Doomkid thread (before it was nuked) the only legit way to share them atm is as assets used in an actual mapset. Why? no idea. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 18, 2024 4:05:05 GMT -5
you basically cannot use anything from the vault. i don't fuckin' care what xaser said (he is not bethesda lawyer/law representative). the hard facts are:
1. vaults are in kpf file, which cannot be used directly as a resource wad, and
2. there is no permission from bethesda to extract, change and/or repack vault content in any way.
so vaults are completely useless.
p.s.: i don't know if vaults content is in some of those idxx wads too, because i refuse to touch them.
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thelokk
Doomer
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Member is Online
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Post by thelokk on Aug 18, 2024 4:10:03 GMT -5
Which means that you can, the same way anything has ever been done with Doom modding - make it not worth pursuing legally. Also, it took me a minute to crop textures from the asset dump Doomkid posted and use the sky in a map.
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Post by ketmar on Aug 18, 2024 4:11:00 GMT -5
sure, you can. but it won't be legal, and idarchive will prolly censor such wads.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,342
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Post by SilverMiner on Aug 18, 2024 4:21:07 GMT -5
Does one have to own doom+doom2 to upload wads to Bethesda?
If one owns doom+doom2, does one have to have it installed?
Does one have to have a steam account to create a bethesda account?
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Post by ketmar on Aug 18, 2024 4:51:21 GMT -5
and by the way. nightdive added parts of their id24 crap into iwads. of course, for no reasion at all.
another fun fact: UMAPINFO from "re-release" contains non-standard fields. so any proper validating UMAPINFO loader will simply reject all additional iwads from "re-release" due to invalid UMAPINFO.
so they hijacked MBF21, hijacked UMAPINFO, and modified original iwads. of course, it is only to better serve the community.
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Post by gije on Aug 18, 2024 5:09:48 GMT -5
More and more, I'm convinced copyright should only last like 20 years, especially if transferred from original creator.
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Post by dr_st on Aug 18, 2024 6:46:43 GMT -5
More and more, I'm convinced copyright should only last like 20 years, especially if transferred from original creator. Some people would say 'no more than 5'. Or maybe make it non-transferrable. Or maybe leave it as is, but make sharing legal after a certain period of time, so that anything can be distributed for free, but you cannot sell it. There are many different ideas, each with its own plusses and minuses. I won't pretend I have the best answer, but I don't really like the current situation either. I'm just glad that there's someone on YouTube that spoke explicitly about ID24. Indeed. Although most of the concerns raised by that person are not specific to ID24 (with which I still don't see any significant issues), but more in line with "what does Bethesda's rekindled interest in monetizing Doom say about its future attitude towards the community?" All the bad things (cease and desist notices, targeting modders for minor copyright infringements, real or alleged) is something they, as a recognized copyright holder, could have done at any time without releasing the new port, or ID24, and something they can still do. At the same time, there is nothing inherently wrong with Bethesda wanting to "add more users to the paying customer base". It's a corporation, they hold an asset in the form of an IP, and they have every right to try to make money off it. It would be stupid for them not to. The fear (and it's not unfounded, given how corporations have acted in the past) is that they would tread on the community and bully it as part of their game plan. Time will tell. |
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