nnn✓ork
Doomer
Dr. Noisystein
Posts: 719
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Post by nnn✓ork on Aug 14, 2024 18:36:23 GMT -5
"What if we simply banned all the port developers that disagreed with this optional complevel."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2024 19:18:53 GMT -5
Guess that's what happens when you are VERY OPEN AND VERY LOUD about it
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Post by Moonsweeper on Aug 14, 2024 20:13:21 GMT -5
"What if we simply banned all the port developers that disagreed with this optional complevel." I was going to say this wouldn't happen (besides Ketmar), but now I noticed Dasho was banned, Kraflab was banned. And Lobo is on the verge of being banned, one of his answers deserved it's own split and lock. To be fair, Kraflab took things to personal side and resorted to offenses, but the others didn't. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2024 20:17:21 GMT -5
"What if we simply banned all the port developers that disagreed with this optional complevel." I was going to say this wouldn't happen (besides Ketmar), but now I noticed Dasho was banned, Kraflab was banned. And Lobo is on the verge of being banned, one of his answers deserved it's own split and lock. In the spirit of fairness, my ban had nothing to do with the current situation, although judging from their response to Lobo they are still keeping an eye on me here for some reason. I don't know why claiming that Dehacked is "a corpse" is even a controversial stance, and they conveniently didn't include my other criticisms of the standard, but I digress. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 14, 2024 20:18:29 GMT -5
if somebody's reading DW, please, note us when they'll ban kraflab. let's see if DW mods have at least one ball to go against the author of one of the important sourceports, lol.
p.s.: oops. kraflab already. i am late to the party, again. ;-)
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Post by Moonsweeper on Aug 14, 2024 20:27:58 GMT -5
I think vanilla source ports made for vanilla wads should remain using DeHacked, but for new standards it's useless, if it isn't vanilla or demo compatible then what is the point? Also, I remember DSDA-Doom being included in this Doom Wiki article: doomwiki.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_portsAm I right and they have removed it or am I having a Mandela effect? Anyways, maybe we should try and bring Kraflab to this forum, maybe even create a "Source Ports" subforum. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 14, 2024 20:42:25 GMT -5
it was added in march 2023, and then removed by bot for "formatting reasons". there were no more attemps to add it, afair. but this really looks like a bot reverted the change for bad table formatting, not a human.
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,105
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Post by 40oz on Aug 14, 2024 20:51:09 GMT -5
this is fucking crazy
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Post by Moonsweeper on Aug 14, 2024 21:00:46 GMT -5
By the way, the main reason I got here was because of curiosity about K8Vavoom. Having something that can only be downloaded here really brings value to the place. While Matador hasn't been banned from DW you should still post the new DBPs over there, but if he gets banned, leaving them only here would give people a reason to create an account.
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Post by ketmar on Aug 14, 2024 21:11:06 GMT -5
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,105
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Post by 40oz on Aug 14, 2024 21:15:21 GMT -5
Dynamo trying to meet in the middle by banning kraflab (The lead guy behind one of the most widely used source ports in all of the doom community) AND banning Kinsie (just some loser going to bat for nightdive and co.) is a hilarious compromise. I'd laugh if it didn't make me so sad.
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Post by Moonsweeper on Aug 14, 2024 21:25:38 GMT -5
The impression I got with Kinsie's ban is that he didn't want people to think that only the ones that criticized ID24 would suffer.
But I have to say, that was quite funny, they even changed his title to "Tourist". Worse than the people that go in defense of a corporation because they are being paid are the ones that do it for free, at least the former are smart.
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Post by ketmar on Aug 14, 2024 21:28:59 GMT -5
i believe that the best thing DW mods could do now is to unban everybody, issue the official apology, and rename the thread to "id24: the possible new standard discussion". this alone will make people much less angry and suspicious. but i bet they wouldn't.
also, hey, DW mods: if you'll do what i say, i demand credits for it in the opening post!
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nnn✓ork
Doomer
Dr. Noisystein
Posts: 719
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Post by nnn✓ork on Aug 14, 2024 21:35:12 GMT -5
But I have to say, that was quite funny, they even changed his title to "Tourist". I think it was that before, at least since migrating from a recent big ZDoom drama. |
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Post by TimeOfDeath on Aug 14, 2024 22:01:03 GMT -5
lol wtf is going on with the doomworld mods? maybe too much soy and gender-affirming drugs
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Post by Bob Page on Aug 14, 2024 23:02:25 GMT -5
lol wtf is going on with the doomworld mods? maybe too much soy and gender-affirming drugs It's wild. Dude straight up banned the DSDA developer for one rather innocuous "personal attack", and bans another person for admittedly snarky replies. And everyone in the thread is sheepishly apologizing and seemingly too scared to utter a single word that might cause someone else to do anything but nod their head in agreement. Whatever happened to warnings? I guess that's what good little fascists do though. It's proof that with enough conditioning, people won't question even the most blatant misuse of power taking place before their eyes. |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 14, 2024 23:25:44 GMT -5
it's fun that the warnings are totally invisible (and bans too). actually, it is bad for moderation, because people simply don't see moderator actions, and are free to think anything.
and of course, instead of showing in the thread and make some public verbal warnings, mods are silently "waited for everybody to express their opinion". to find some more reasons to ban people, i presume.
not that i expected from DW moderators to act as sane persons, but… but i always hope for the best. dunno why.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 504
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Aug 15, 2024 0:58:56 GMT -5
I'm curious if Romero is going to get pressured to make hellion an id24 set to sell it for the new port? We already know he was pressured to stop releasing beta stuff before they went on to sell it with this port. I also think it's funny doomkid posted a dl to some of the port's content and was apparently pressured to take that down. Hopefully stuff like this is a wake up call. There are plenty of disagreements to be had but if there is common ground to be found this should be it. At least I would like to think that.
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,105
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Post by 40oz on Aug 15, 2024 1:40:57 GMT -5
damn thats another thing that happened in the crossfire of all this. A hearty LOL at UNUSED assets being some kind of intellectual property? Doomkid having to take it down because it's not cool??? Not cool for who? Bethesda didnt even make it, who cares what is cool or not at this point?
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Post by ketmar on Aug 15, 2024 1:55:32 GMT -5
technically they are still copyrighted. also, for some reason either id or nightdive put "id Vault 2024" stamp on some of them, but not on all. for example, "doomguy_rotations_0.png" has no mark at all. "doomguy_scratch_a_0.png" is marked "Pics or Sprites '93". "monster_arachnotron_0.png" is marked "id Vault 2024". and they all in the same directory.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,342
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Post by SilverMiner on Aug 15, 2024 2:06:30 GMT -5
Bethesda "can't touch this" vault
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Post by dr_st on Aug 15, 2024 2:54:51 GMT -5
ketmarLet me clarify. When I mean that the specs have been opened - I mean that the outward-facing interfaces have been opened enough to allow others to write compatible implementations. Not that every single bit of the internal implementation has been disclosed. And we can agree that this applies to both x86 and Doom. Otherwise AMD, Cyrix and Via would not be able to make CPUs that run x86 software, and no one would be able to create Doom maps. JadingTsunamiThank you for the conversation. I think I know now where folks stand on the subject, and what irks them, which is exactly what I wanted to understand. The goal was not to get everyone to agree. Such a goal is almost never attainable, whether you write specs or merely discuss them. 
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Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 594 
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Post by Lobo on Aug 15, 2024 2:59:39 GMT -5
"What if we simply banned all the port developers that disagreed with this optional complevel." I was going to say this wouldn't happen (besides Ketmar), but now I noticed Dasho was banned, Kraflab was banned. And Lobo is on the verge of being banned, one of his answers deserved it's own split and lock. Don't forget Gibbon, who was banned for having a difference of opinion with a mod about if gamepads or mouse/keyboard was better... I was actually thinking of Ketmar and Gibbon in that DW post: Dasho getting into hotwater is par for the course tbh |
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Post by ketmar on Aug 15, 2024 3:30:49 GMT -5
ketmarLet me clarify. When I mean that the specs have been opened - I mean that the outward-facing interfaces have been opened enough to allow others to write compatible implementations. Not that every single bit of the internal implementation has been disclosed. AMD and Via licensed the technology from Intel. and Cyrix spent quite a lot of efforts on reverse-engineering (except the FPU part, of which they had the original author on-board). so no, "official specs" were not enough. and Doom data formats were COMPLETELY reverse-engineered by the community, without any help from id software. tbh, Carmack simply hadn't expected that people will do it that fast, and he planned to release some info, but still… |
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Post by dr_st on Aug 15, 2024 5:27:45 GMT -5
OK, you are correct. There was licensing under NDA to specific third parties. It was not fully public. I was inaccurate, and I apologize.
In regards to the DOOM data formats, I may need a history refresher too. The ability to load mods (-file) was there from day one, so naturally they expected and planned to make it possible, but you're saying that the community did that ahead of them. That's impressive, especially with the tools back then.
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