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Post by thundercunt on Jul 6, 2024 18:34:05 GMT -5
Which doom community are you talking about? I said a doom community. A collective of doom fans in any place where they can talk to each other. If you're asking between doomworld and doomer boards, it's both. They both have unaddressed problems about the way people are allowed to treat each other. As of today, the official Doom subreddit has a pride flag over its community icon, the same happening with the ZDoom Discord. Anyone that makes a post that can be even remotely interpreted as anti-LGBT is immediately permabanned from both DW and ZDoom forums. Trans women seemingly outnumber cis women 10 to 1 in this community. This is easily one of the online gaming communities most obsessed with being LGBT-friendly, and I can't see any reason why your non-binary pansexual partner would think otherwise. Bringing race to this argument is even more puzzling... how in the fuck being mixed race could possibly be an impediment to joining this community? As if any Latin-American doomer ever thought "oh no, I'm mixed-race... I don't think I will be welcome in this forum about a 30-year-old DOS game"
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VICE
Doomer
Summoning fucks to give
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Post by VICE on Jul 6, 2024 18:40:29 GMT -5
I wonder - is there something special about Doom that makes the people participating need to push these aspects of themselves into everything? ~
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 6, 2024 19:06:42 GMT -5
If I agree to concede that at times, among a certain subset of forum members, what you've said here is true, would you agree to concede that there are times in the Doom community where certain members of special interest groups overshare their personal details and see hatred/bigotry when it isn't necessarily present? I was just told to fuck off yesterday. I do think that maybe some of the posts you've observed here are a reaction to people being constantly bombarded with DEI(Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) and identity politics. There's no way this is true. I don't even know wtf DEI is, I just searched for it on youtube, and literally the first 10 results (with the exception of one) are videos talking about what a colossal failure it is before anyone can even attempt to make a case for what it actually is. pardon the quality.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Jul 6, 2024 19:48:48 GMT -5
There's no way this is true. I don't even know wtf DEI is It wouldn't be fair to dismiss the argument without knowledge of the topic outside of some uninformed YouTube videos then. There is an element of dei, or die in some other nations, not even a joke that does factor in. A layman explanation is that it effects financing in that if a business caters to left wing positions they get a good score which makes it more likely to get funds from investment firms. Insiders from various entertainment industries have been discussing it and the negative impact it has had for quite some time now. It's not an organic movement that you are supporting.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 6, 2024 19:56:42 GMT -5
StodgyAyatollah I've been making doom maps for free for fucking 15 years. How long to I have to keep doing it to prove I have absolutely nothing to do with this?
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 485
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Jul 6, 2024 22:26:18 GMT -5
40oz if you took that personal I apologize. I think you're coming at things from a place of good intention so I don't hold that against you. Watching you blanket labeling everyone who disagrees with you as a bigot on the other hand is really annoying though. It's the type of thing a lot of people have faced numerous times, myself included and frankly are tired of seeing. Do you sincerely think the handful of people who are actually trying to engage with you in good faith here are all bigots?
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Post by dr_st on Jul 7, 2024 1:07:48 GMT -5
I suppose, I can understand why you find it more important or interesting to discuss politics rather than Doom. But why do so on a forum dedicated to Doom? Why would I avoid off-topic discussions I find interesting on a site I'm active on? That wouldn't make any sense to me. No reason, other than self-restraint, brought by the realization that such off-topic discussions tend to get the worst out of people and spread bad vibes around the community. Of course, such self-restraint only helps if everyone cooperates, and it has to start from the community leaders.
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Post by deathevokation on Jul 7, 2024 2:38:59 GMT -5
helikeschimps But like... is this the kind of way you want to use a forum to communicate with people or are these parting words? Because I won't bother trying to defend free speech here if the former is the case..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2024 3:40:57 GMT -5
So why would a pansexual person bother to contribute to a DBP They shouldn't. I don't want them here.
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joe-ilya
Don't quit now! We're still spending your money!
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Post by joe-ilya on Jul 7, 2024 4:51:05 GMT -5
So why would a pansexual person bother to contribute to a DBP They shouldn't. I don't want them here. I see
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Jul 7, 2024 6:27:57 GMT -5
40oz if you took that personal I apologize. I think you're coming at things from a place of good intention so I don't hold that against you. Watching you blanket labeling everyone who disagrees with you as a bigot on the other hand is really annoying though. It's the type of thing a lot of people have faced numerous times, myself included and frankly are tired of seeing. Do you sincerely think the handful of people who are actually trying to engage with you in good faith here are all bigots? Please tell me you're reading the posts in this thread. Look at shibainu's post below yours. At what point does the definition of bigot fall short? I'll put it another way, suppose shibainu drew a charades card in which he was trying wholeheartedly to convince you that he was a bigot. Would his post be enough for you to guess? Does he need to precede it with "Yes I am a bigot, please stop trying to tell me that I am not?" You could still read this and think to yourself, "no he's cool, of course he's not a bigot. He's arguing in good faith." ffs yesterday I thought I was the one being gaslit.So why would a pansexual person bother to contribute to a DBP They shouldn't. I don't want them here. ![](https://i.vgy.me/9H6LLK.png)
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VICE
Doomer
Summoning fucks to give
Posts: 66
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Post by VICE on Jul 7, 2024 7:36:15 GMT -5
I don't think what shiba wrote is unreasonable, and the term bigot requires that.
Notice how he didn't say anything other than his own preference. No slander, no fancy labels or words whose definition only kind-of fits if you squint hard enough.
It's reasonable not to want to associate with people who have a different worldview.
Doubly so if these people have another platform from which they will kick you if you express a different worldview from them.
I'm sure in the vocabulary of the vocal left unreasonable just means "disagrees with me / excludes me", but that's not what that word actually means.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2024 8:04:25 GMT -5
40oz if you took that personal I apologize. I think you're coming at things from a place of good intention so I don't hold that against you. Watching you blanket labeling everyone who disagrees with you as a bigot on the other hand is really annoying though. It's the type of thing a lot of people have faced numerous times, myself included and frankly are tired of seeing. Do you sincerely think the handful of people who are actually trying to engage with you in good faith here are all bigots? Please tell me you're reading the posts in this thread. Look at shibainu's post below yours. At what point does the definition of bigot fall short? I'll put it another way, suppose shibainu drew a charades card in which he was trying wholeheartedly to convince you that he was a bigot. Would his post be enough for you to guess? Does he need to precede it with "Yes I am a bigot, please stop trying to tell me that I am not?" You could still read this and think to yourself, "no he's cool, of course he's not a bigot. He's arguing in good faith." ffs yesterday I thought I was the one being gaslit.They shouldn't. I don't want them here. ![](https://i.vgy.me/9H6LLK.png) I wonder how long or rather how much shall it take for your imbecile ass to get that your left-wing wokistani values of what's right or not are not applicable for anyone and that you just make it happen to prove that leftoids are brain rotten shortsighted pricks who have to subdue and steal from others anda twist anything they've got from others in order to feel an ever so slightly miniscule, pity sense of self-fulfilment?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2024 8:06:15 GMT -5
My point is it's not shitposters that'll ruin this forum for good, or "bigots" your gay assloathe so much because they bear the truth about life and how things are work outside of your retarded mind bubble. it's you 40oz who is the bringer of the End to Doomer Boards.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2024 8:08:46 GMT -5
I've been troubled by events at Doomworld I experienced a while back, which I'm sure is a rather familiar story on this board. I got into a heated discussion once, over a topic that I feel matters to me within gaming. My guiding compass has always been that I love, open, honest discussions, even if they can be controversial, but that it's perfectly okay to have completely contradictory positions and opinions to me. If we disagree, it shouldn't have to reflect on people's character personally. I don't often make a habit of starting flame wars, and in fact in this particular instance I had no idea one would even erupt. I made an off-hand comment to somebody else, and a third party took great personal offense to that smaller remark in a larger post. He attacked my character. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I tried to explain or scaffold my position with some more context, but it became increasingly clear he wasn't interested in a discussion or a clarification, but a contrition. Anything less than an apology for daring to voice a critical, negative opinion would not be acceptable to him. To that, I naturally replied, sorry, but you're not getting one. If I have to self-censor every thought I ever had out of fear that anybody anywhere might possible take great offense to that, I or anybody else couldn't ever really say anything and the world would totally be sterile. Ironically, that was the last post I made before getting temporarily banned by a mod, on the outlandish grounds of "anti-social behavior." I was quite angry at that, as I had never received even a warning, and I've had no troubles on the site in the past. At some point after the ban expired, out of morbid curiosity, I returned to the site. I thought, perhaps I had come across as meaner or overly argumentative than I meant to. Perhaps I was in error and too caught up in the spirit of the moment to recognize it. Literally the very first topic I see, locked, is about some Youtuber whining over a rude Youtube comment (Gasp, who could've ever guessed those exist?) In actuality, the comment in question hardly seemed all that rude. It was a little elitist for sure, ("You're playing the game wrong!") but ultimately rather harmless. The sort of thing just best ignored and moved on from. Yet, on Doomworld there were a chorus of voices, some even familiar names of people I've liked and interacted with positively in the past, who absolutely piled on this no-name Youtube commenter. The original accusation was that this fellow was being "too mean," but apparently the vitriolic mob replying seemed to lack the self-awareness that they were being far, far meaner in response. Disagreements over opinions were being met with a long laundry list of childish, personal attacks. There was no better confirmation that yea, "It's not me, it's you." All that said, I don't hate Doomworld, not at all. I still feel it has great value, particularly when it comes to getting useful information on mapping, or help with technical details. It's a great place to discover new maps and mods. Aesthetically, it's a very nice looking website. The Cacowards are important. From that perspective it remains a great resource. But the majority of discussions are totally inane, toothless, tepid, and boring, because anything else could be considered offensive and worthy of censorship. The worst kind of censorship is not the bans, it's self-censorship. It's the feeling that I have to think twice about everything I might want to express, no matter how seemingly benign, because I can't know what somebody might take the wrong way. And it sucks, because for a while, Doom, which is one of, if not my all time favorite game, was kind of ruined for me. Video games used to be a source of relief from other people, from stress, and now they're becoming the source of stress and aggravation. I had to avoid playing the game because it would revive ugly memories of this distasteful experience. I had a certain faith and trust in the strength of this community, and it was shattered that day. Even when I could go back, I don't really ever want to now. I need to get this off my chest, because that loss of faith or innocence bothers me far more than whatever the initial argument was over. I didn't really want to be here, on DoomerBoards. I don't want to be a pariah or an outcast. And like I said earlier, I still love the great resources DoomWorld offers. It remains the most popular fan site, and with some good reason. But I also want an outlet that respects the rights of its users, where I can feel liberated to freely speak my mind (within reason of course) and not have to worry about mob justice. As a side note, I only discovered "Zeppelin Armada" by joining this site, so in a way there is a sort of blessing in this whole affair. It's rather unfortunate and petty that such an impressive mod is to be ignored and unappreciated on Doomworld over insider politics or drama. If you were kind enough to read my story all the way through, I thank you for your time. I love this awesome game too much to quit. They can't and they won't take it away from me. Looks like I've found a new home for my Dooming from now on. Cheers. My advice is to gtfo from this site and join Kiwi Farms for 40oz does as much as he can to turn this place into diet coke doomworld
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2024 8:15:39 GMT -5
Congratulations dickhead, you started out being a weird guy with a fetish for oversharing your imaginary sex life on DoomWorld, then you became an underdog via DBP, and now you're a gay man dating a crossdressing tard with a Mexican mother and a Nigerian father that already impregnated a woman who's twice the man you'll ever be with "your partner's daughter" because she's a complete whore that will fuck anything with a pulse. Your SM/DOM act - that's Straight, Male, Defender of Minorities for those of you just tuning in - just isn't good enough so she has to go to the zoo (literally and figuratively speaking). Maybe one day you'll be able to admit that she's also fat, and a man too. Then you'll be able to truly accept it for what it is..... a fat hairy man in a dress too dumb to underderstand the difference between an entrance and an exit that you've been boning every night while fantasizing about hot goth vampire cat"girls". At least it's obvious where this obsession comes from now. Couldn't find a real woman to have fun with, so you started simping for a gay and desperate male in hopes of a quick blowie and the chance to be Mister Whiteknight. The next time you've got your ebola chimp's sweaty sack in your mouth or when you're changing its diaper, take some time to think about what a failure you've become and how nearly everyone on the internet and in real life always knew you were a gross sperg only good enough to fuck the crust on the bottom of the barrel. Oh, hi taintedslav. How's it going? I don't know if I have to feel good or bad that I live in yer troon head rent free to the point you mistake me and other people who dislike the way 40oz acts or what he tries to do. Fascinating shit, but you have to Ronnie McNut yourself for good, stay away from children freak, that includes your own. EDIT: In typical f@g fashion 40oz strip away the posting privileges from those people who spill the beans and tell the uncomfortable truth about him. AGAIN.
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Post by thelokk on Jul 7, 2024 8:37:21 GMT -5
Oh, hi taintedslav. How's it going? I don't know if I have to feel good or bad that I live in yer troon head rent free to the point you mistake me and other people who dislike the way 40oz acts or what he tries to do. Fascinating shit, but you have to Ronnie McNut yourself for good, stay away from children freak, that includes your own. My bad, you're all so interchangeable ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Jul 7, 2024 9:31:25 GMT -5
I don't think what shiba wrote is unreasonable, and the term bigot requires that. Notice how he didn't say anything other than his own preference. No slander, no fancy labels or words whose definition only kind-of fits if you squint hard enough. It's reasonable not to want to associate with people who have a different worldview. Doubly so if these people have another platform from which they will kick you if you express a different worldview from them. I'm sure in the vocabulary of the vocal left unreasonable just means "disagrees with me / excludes me", but that's not what that word actually means. Nope. That doesn't work either. The definition of unreasonable means what it means. There's no reason in the post. If there's reasons they are not being expressed. He will speak for himself. This isn't a hivemind after all. Please learn your vocabulary.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 485
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Jul 7, 2024 10:11:00 GMT -5
No reason, other than self-restraint, brought by the realization that such off-topic discussions tend to get the worst out of people and spread bad vibes around the community. Of course, such self-restraint only helps if everyone cooperates, and it has to start from the community leaders. That is, in essence the problem and as is will never happen. It's a tired subject that I'd prefer not to engage with but I had contention with the downplaying of people's concern about communities being destroyed by fringe leftist ideologies, implying they are the bad ones for wanting to be left alone. Coming from someone running a site that's essentially for outcasts, some of whom have experienced that very thing just rubbed me the wrong way. 40oz since you've conflated this question to shibainumaster's post I think that gives me all the answer I need. Do you sincerely think the handful of people who are actually trying to engage with you in good faith here are all bigots?
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 7, 2024 11:17:36 GMT -5
StodgyAyatollah Let's try to connect the dots here again. in defense of an overall mission to combat powerful oligarchs that use DEI to mismanage the funds from investment firms, -- something which you've followed by clarifying that I and my partner have absolutely no connection to, you're going to bypass the posts that explicitly have problems with the people being used as collateral for this end. Somehow, to this effect, the bigotted people are aiding you in this mission, and I'm standing in the way of it. I have a personal experience of knowing people in my life, in person, and other non-doom communities, that both enjoy Doom, and are either a targetted minority group outlined in the posts you're glossing over, or are simply related to, or friends with people of that sort. By inviting them, i'd have to remind them to ignore the people talking over and over about how much they specifically hate their kind, and to just donate their labor and doom content and never ever talk about themselves on this free-speech forum in any capacity lest people piece their puzzle together and bully the fuck out of them. You're going to scroll past those posts to quote me and interrogate me alone, about how my fringe leftist ideologies which I've stated, are rooted distinctly in my personal relationships, are what's destroying communities everywhere. The obvious fact that there are people posting on this forum to say they want the people from these groups, not to leave, but to never even enter, without even knowing who they are. Doesn't matter if they would like to talk about Doom in some capacity, or are talented artists or creators that would carry a lot of the weight that I and other doomer boards mappers often have to carry alone to keep the flow of Doom content going. I can just tell them this: "There's good news, though. There's other people on the forum too, not bigots. They made sure to remind me to tell you that. They will effectively argue these same points less directly... "in good faith" as they put it. They say they have no opinion one way or the other about whether you stay or leave... that's fair enough right?" Am I understanding you correctly?
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 485
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Jul 7, 2024 13:15:15 GMT -5
Let's try to connect the dots here again. Let's not. I'm not interested in having pointless cyclical conversations where we end up talking past each other again. However I am willing to suggest that you should consider banning all talk of identity politics so this same routine doesn't have to keep playing out over and over. I think the general user base would be appreciative of that.
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joe-ilya
Don't quit now! We're still spending your money!
Resurrected
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Post by joe-ilya on Jul 7, 2024 13:22:34 GMT -5
So shibainumaster just deleted their account lmao
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 7, 2024 14:22:20 GMT -5
Then dont. I didnt call you a bigot in the first place anyway.
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Post by Bob Page on Jul 7, 2024 14:26:49 GMT -5
Let's not. I'm not interested in having pointless cyclical conversations where we end up talking past each other again. However I am willing to suggest that you should consider banning all talk of identity politics so this same routine doesn't have to keep playing out over and over. I think the general user base would be appreciative of that. I'll second this. These conversations aren't really going anywhere because both sides have a solidified opinion that isn't going to be swayed. Best to just keep things centered around Doom, which I feel would promote more overall positivity on the forum. If someone really has the urge to argue about this topic online, they could do it on another forum or on Facebook or the YouTube comment section.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 7, 2024 15:15:25 GMT -5
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