Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 10:17:37 GMT -5
I honestly don't know what it is you're trying to communicate to me, Good-Old. But, Kontra, I'm not one to throw accusations of "fascism" around lightly. I disagree strongly with the politics of some of the "old guard" members here, of course. We had a shitload of long, drawn out arguments in the day. I just got bored of that shit... but I never threw the dreaded hyperbolic F-bomb around though, and still haven't. Glad to hear it, tbh I rarely talk politics anymore. I'm too busy taking care of my family. I just randomly talk about video games, and when ever one of my old projects gets some attention.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 10:43:52 GMT -5
I think that's a good thing. Taking care of family is constructive use of time. I realized a couple years ago that arguing politics with Doomers was a waste of time and could only result in further pointless community division. There are other places much better suited to political bedshitting now, it's not like it was in the older era where arguing politics and religion was a cool gimmick, now the entire damn internet is covered in it constantly. I just got so bored of having it mixed in with Doom as well, so I backed off from the forums. Didn't force my decision on anyone else, just decided I was largely through with it. I just couldn't let these conspiracies related to Doom wads go unquestioned though.. I think the idea that if some wads vigilantdoomer likes don't win it "proves" this or that is bullshit. He just wants yet another reason to write pages of crap about DW when/if his wads of choice don't win and he's planting those seeds now. It's obvious to me and it goes outside the realm of "regular political shit argumentation" so I felt compelled to say my piece..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 10:59:25 GMT -5
, many of whom intentionally burned their bridges/relationship with Doomworld.. If by "intentionally" you meant pointing out to some of your moderators how stupid the aformentioned moderator is by believing in false accusation against a person this moderator banned from their place and then banned that person for pointing out the moderator is stupid, like those who sperging this bullshit? Well that's an "intentional" burn then, sure...
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xeepeep
Banned
Forever
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Post by xeepeep on Aug 12, 2021 12:27:23 GMT -5
I told y'all Doom Damnation deserved a cacoward FIVE YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!! My favourite megawad to this day, definitely gonna play E4 when I feel like it
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
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Post by dmdr on Aug 12, 2021 19:32:27 GMT -5
yo Doomkid you know that this whole thread started because of rd's big rant about us being 'fascist-friendly' on his profile right (it's in the first post) if you think that the judges are gonna give a fair shake to far right wing trumpenazis then I'd like you to know that I am a Nigerian prince and I need to transfer a large sum of money into your bank account. all I need is your internet banking access details and etc. etc. unhinged conspiracy theories indeed also holy fucking shit lol at 'genuine oppression'. stop being such a leftoid for reals
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 19:34:07 GMT -5
As if the vast majority of you didn't end up in this shitcan deservedly, or even intentionally. Playing nice with others is something most 3rd graders are capable of, and yet you were not, so everyone said fuck off loser. This "shitcan", as you call it, has produced some absolutely incredible maps from a variety of talented mappers. In fact, it produces a bunch of them once every month. Unlike Doomworld, this shitcan actually allows discussions about politics and other "sensitive" topics without resorting to locking threads, giving condescending warnings, shadow-banning, or other shitty practices. This shitcan doesn't support or enable needlessly rude, abusive, or smug moderators. And this shitcan isn't run by a hypocritical clique of entitled whiners who impose their ideologies onto others. So yeah, I'll take this "shitcan" anyday over the extreme leftist (content removed) dystopia that is Doomworld. And you're damn right a lot of us got banned from DW, but pretending that it was all our fault because we're such a bunch of immature speds is a grotesque fabrication. And you know it. No one here is buying the bullshit you're trying to sell, dude.
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Post by dr_st on Aug 13, 2021 5:12:35 GMT -5
As if the vast majority of you didn't end up in this shitcan deservedly, or even intentionally. Playing nice with others is something most 3rd graders are capable of, and yet you were not, so everyone said fuck off loser. This "shitcan", as you call it, has produced some absolutely incredible maps from a variety of talented mappers. In fact, it produces a bunch of them once every month. Unlike Doomworld, this shitcan actually allows discussions about politics and other "sensitive" topics without resorting to locking threads, giving condescending warnings, shadow-banning, or other shitty practices. This shitcan doesn't support or enable needlessly rude, abusive, or smug moderators. And this shitcan isn't run by a hypocritical clique of entitled whiners who impose their ideologies onto others. So yeah, I'll take this "shitcan" anyday over the extreme leftist (content removed) dystopia that is Doomworld. And you're damn right a lot of us got banned from DW, but pretending that it was all our fault because we're such a bunch of immature speds is a grotesque fabrication. And you know it. No one here is buying the bullshit you're trying to sell, dude. That's pretty much the way it is. I envy you, Bob Page, for your ability to express it all so succinctly and eloquently. I don't particularly want to participate in a shitstorm right now, and the only reason I am replying to this thread is to express acknowledgment and admiration of your post.
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silver32
Registered just to make one post
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Post by silver32 on Aug 13, 2021 5:33:15 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 9:15:37 GMT -5
Ah, so you must be another one of these shit eating degenerates that believe I'm pedo, right? Man I'm curious now how many of you imbeciles out there. No really, how much? so I'd know how many of you fuckers I'd need to laugh at. IF you'd like to be wise person and not follow the lies of people that allow and actual lolicon enjoyer be among moderators of that server where this have happened, read this article, if you're still convinced that I'm the cheese pizza fan, you can either go fuck yourself with barbwire decorated bat, as a punishment for being yet another moron spreading this bullshit across places.
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Justince
Doomer
Professional Face-Puncher
Posts: 495
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Post by Justince on Aug 13, 2021 16:39:17 GMT -5
I don't know who you are but your feeble attempt at character assassination won't work here, asshole. Go back to whatever hole you climbed out of and fuck off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 18:10:54 GMT -5
That's pretty much the way it is. I envy you, Bob Page, for your ability to express it all so succinctly and eloquently. I don't particularly want to participate in a shitstorm right now, and the only reason I am replying to this thread is to express acknowledgment and admiration of your post. I appreciate you, my friend!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 23:12:38 GMT -5
I think the idea that if some wads vigilantdoomer likes don't win it "proves" this or that is bullshit. He just wants yet another reason to write pages of crap about DW when/if his wads of choice don't win and he's planting those seeds now. While the first sentence surely a valid point by itself, the second is just pure bonkers and reveals to me you apparently didn't really read the thread nor did you understand me otherwise. Can't blame you for not reading thread, as I can't be bothered to read the last two pages with sufficient scrutiny as well (time is too precious to waste it on this thread). But you are also making ungrounded speculations about what I'm going to do, and what I'm doing now. You have misjudged me, because you don't really even lurk around this forum anymore just as I don't wander around doomworld. If I were to speculate, I would think that you are trying to win the points on DW by arguing with us, but I don't award much credits to such speculations, contrary to what you may have thought. The statements to the effect of "we are not going to win the cacowards" and "they are doing this so they have an excuse not to award Auger;Zenith a cacoward" were not made by me, and in fact I am amused that other members posted them in advance - even before the rd's posts on his profile. I personally don't care for the cacowards and doomworld anymore since the incident with DW staff (Not Jabba in particular) going after and banning Shadowman, even mentioning his contribution to the Whitemare 2, which won cacowards years ago IIRC, in negative light, and given the fact that recent cacowards weren't as fun to me as they used to be. That incident was a load of bullshit, and none here or on RDC would stand by DW's side of this. Don't even bother going against us on Shadowman, you'll trash all your reputation here. Now, I don't even visit doomworld unless someone posts HERE, on doomer boards, about yet another fucked up thing going on doomworld, in which case I feel compelled - even if annoyed - to check it out. If you had read this thread, you would find out that I'm not much interested in parallel awards thing, BUT other people here DO care about awards, and do believe cacoward replacement is necessary, Thus I'll have to support that idea. As for my personal opinion, I don't care about top ten wads, I care about wads I would have fun to play, and that means that some better idea than the awards needs to be created. I've suggested a searchable repository of reviews for wads, with tags. This way everyone would be able to find wads to their liking, because award-winning was is not necessarily fun to play (because "fun" and "award-winning" here effectively are subjective opinions of different people). So no, I am not a conspirologist. Now the part that would be obvious by reading this thread: when DW members came to argue, I participated in rebutting their arguments, because their arguments consisted of insults and subjective opinions they tried to present as truth or superior system of values. And yes, I did make a note about "Dynamite Duchess should win a cacoward or the staff is biased against some people and some works", which can be disputed, but then again, let's return to the fact that I don't care what some jury thinks the top X wads are. What I really think is that people allocate cacowards more hype than it deserves, that new people do look to cacowards to find stuff to play, and how would it be possible to "market" (bad word, needs a replacement) stuff they can actually enjoy instead. As for "arguing politics with doomers a waste of time", that's just your opinion, which may be valid for you and your character, but not for others here. There are apparently people here who do want to discuss politics with other doomers, as tense as it can get, and enough that are capable of respecting each other afterwards. p.s. as for cacowards, award whatever the hell you want, and yes I didn't play the nominations, nor even knew what the nominations where, nor I do even care about them. This forum alone generates enough backlog for me, I could be as well playing only what gets mentioned here. Also careful with postulating that doomer boards consists (or consisted in the past) of bad people who were deservedly banned or burned the bridge out of teenage spite. You should know better than this. One of the people who burned the bridge was darknation, for example, who was part of DW's Old Guard, he is a co-admin here and every single of his posts is gold treasure. And even people you or I could call problematic have actually proven their merit on this forum. The doomer boards is a true people-first haven, we don't have problematic people, but we have people who occassionally act in a flawed way, but are capable of acting better, and I would argue that in this thread you actually brought the worst part of yourself you were usually capable of suppressing, and will be hopefully be able to suppress in future. tl;dr don't speculate about what I'm doing or going to do please, and know that unlike some other people I don't put much investments into speculations. If something you read suggests otherwise, it might have been the result of debate too tense to keep it fair when the other side obviously ignores all rules of polite debate.
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Post by optimus on Aug 14, 2021 2:58:48 GMT -5
I missed a lot of the discussion as I was on holidays, still reading the first few pages..
It's similar as in other communities. - Some people take over under the disguise of cleaning up the place of toxicity (under this whole new culture of doing the right thing, fighting racism, sexism, etc) - The more disagreeable people are pushed away, censored, banned. They move away and create their own communities. - Because you pushed away the most disagreeable people and the more non-PC (and there can be some bad apples I admit) move to the new place, so there are more "problematic" discussions happening here, the ones you would not allow to have before - Now they point back and say "See! I told ya DB users are these horrible bigots!!! I was right"
Personally, if I only read the cherry picked messages from rd, I could be tricked into believing "OMG what a horrible place DB is!". But since I know the place for years and they also talk a lot about Doom and produce wonderful maps each month, my perception is of a cool creative community that just resembles the internet of the 90s, where people can sometimes have controversial discussions (and one does not need to agree, there is no need for guilt by association, like if you visit this forums you must be bad too). DW can also be a good place too if you focus on Doom and forget about everything else, it's just that there is too much control over discussions, for example yet another time a thread is closed suddenly without good reason. There was a thread where someone was just arguing why Sunlust takes the praise and how overhyped it is, and then the thread was closed "because it was counterproductive" or something. It wasn't some non-PC political thing, it didn't escalate into something very bad, it was just yet another discussion about how a certain WAD is too overrated to a certain user and we discussed about other similar WADs too. It was very Doom-centric, non-problematic and yet it closed. This happened times before with other threads I started reading and then the next day they are closed or even dissapeared (one thread about honest criticism on a certain gaming youtube channel). It's like if you open a thread to criticize it's not productive or might harm people. I don't know... I try to follow DW sometimes but closing threads in my face without them even being problematic, too much control.
As for toxic? 90s internet was more quiet and with smaller communities where you felt more like close to each other. DB feels like that. Huge sites like DW doesn't anymore. And the internet with everyone being part of it has become more toxic than ever. But toxicity comes also from those who come to the communities to control them. The biggest #shitshow-gates happened the current years, not back in the 90s where they say it was toxic. Back then, there would be flamewars and discussion would be more free but it wouldn't escalate into bigger cultural wars. Now, even if you decide to make your own community some people don't like it. Reddit was like "you don't like our subredit, go make yours" but they recently banned r/mgtow (which I didn't even follow but I just know one or two youtubers related that I like listening to) while there are more feminist subredits. Wouldn't it be perfect if you say "hey make your community and leave us alone in our community"? But no, they want to control everything. For me that's the toxicity of the modern internet. Ideologues attacking all the spaces and the reaction is like an internet civil war. These things didn't exist in the 90s in such large scales! I am done with people saying the 90s were toxic because some people were more free to discuss more controversial things. They have destroyed every community.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 2:59:06 GMT -5
I don't know who you are but your feeble attempt at character assassination won't work here, asshole. Go back to whatever hole you climbed out of and fuck off. These morons will keep coming. Just saying. And all of them bring their "evidences" from civvie11's discord server. Yes, THAT civvie.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Aug 14, 2021 9:13:06 GMT -5
@good-Old: Man, you quoted the literal one bit of my post I decided I should remove after thinking it over. I was talking like this was still the little place with 40-50 members that it was for the first few years when I was more active here. The forum was directly started as a place to house banned Doomworld members and the political argument shitstorms. Several of the people I was thinking about had knowingly and intentionally burned their bridges with Doomworld and the rest of the community. Since that time, hundreds have joined this forum who I don't know, so it's not right for me to make such a sweeping statement with that considered. who cares. you already did. You posted what was on your mind until challenged on it. you can keep your private doomworld "fuck doomer boards" conversations on discord where they get standing ovations. you dont have to fight with us about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 23:24:10 GMT -5
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Post by scubasteve on Aug 25, 2021 10:50:48 GMT -5
Doomworld is basically the same site today as it was when I started visiting 25 years ago; a website dedicated to Doom that is firmly moderated to be as welcoming as possible. The problem some of you have is you think Doomworld is akin to an open platform when it is more apt to think of Doomworld as a shopping mall. People are basically free to come and go as they please--some people wear leather jackets and sport mohawks while others are soccer moms taking their kids to the pretzel vender after practice. All these people are free to congregate, talk amongs themselves--even about politics--and generally be themeselves, but if you start causing a scene and making some of the patrons feel uncomfortable, mall security is going to ask you to leave. This is why Doomworld cracks down hard on negative comments about gender, race and sexuality... it makes those groups feel unwanted... the point of the mall analogy is that these groups get to feel free to visit and post about Doom and be creative without reading negative shit. If you want to yell exclusionary things about trans people, take it out of the mall.
Doomer Boards is more like having drinks at 40oz house; people are going to say some truly mean shit and there are groups of people who arent' going to feel comfortable being here... but it's 40oz's house, and he decides what conversations people have in his home.
I simply prefer a place where I can bring my friends without worrying people are going to make them feel unwanted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 11:42:35 GMT -5
Doomworld is basically the same site today as it was when I started visiting 25 years ago; a website dedicated to Doom that is firmly moderated to be as welcoming as possible. Well, firmly moderated and welcoming as possible are actually mutually exclusive, as evidenced by exactly what goes on there. You are not going to feel welcome if you feel like there is a crosshair on you, and that you will be shot on spot the first time you cross some invisible line. When Endless made a post criticising mods decisions, it was deleted, and in comments there were people concerned they will be put on a watch list discussing this. There were also shadowbans and other non-transparent things happening. Does it look like a welcome place? Not even remotely. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. It does not crack down hard on negative comments about race and gender, but rather on arbitrary things like position on COVID-19 measures and the like which ARE debatable, because no measures implemented so far are safe by any margin (including being safe to mental health, as it is sometimes more important than people's lives by the way). The moderation there engages in ostracising and attacking a person, in defamation - in trying paint them like an evil being they are actually not - which happened with Shadowman, Impie and others. It also has a monopoly on certain things like cacowards, and some external force should bring down that monopoly, hard. Just like anti-monopoly laws are good things that also justify government interference into economy, we gotta develop some measures to kick your platform from the center onto the periphery of dooming network. And that will be highly justified.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 11:48:05 GMT -5
Also everyone here will laugh over "doomworld being the same site today as 25 years ago", because doomer boards exactly exists because this is not the cause. It was created to host discussions that were formerly allowed on doomworld, but were forbidden from Trump glorious election onwards. That's what is its primary purpose, it has nothing do with being a refuge to banned people, although naturally people who were banned over their political views tend to come over here. Say @doomro, who now swims with DBK, went here first after being shadowbanned on doomworld (obviously, his distaste of leftists must have been reason for this), and now he is no longer a member here, he went of his own volition to be with dbkrew.
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xeepeep
Banned
Forever
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Post by xeepeep on Aug 25, 2021 12:35:31 GMT -5
Doomworld is not the same site it was when I started visiting 5 years ago, at all.
But 25 years holy shit. To think Ling is 40. How is he not bored of it yet.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 13:42:50 GMT -5
Maybe NSA approached him with the deal to help their next generation of MKULTRA experiments?
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Post by use3d on Aug 25, 2021 14:58:59 GMT -5
Doomworld is basically the same site today as it was when I started visiting 25 years ago; a website dedicated to Doom that is firmly moderated to be as welcoming as possible. The problem some of you have is you think Doomworld is akin to an open platform when it is more apt to think of Doomworld as a shopping mall. Yeah well I've been there just as long as you and I disagree completely. I've also seen how some of these people operate from the inside so I know about the smear campaigns and the dogpiling first hand. I'm an openly gay man and I'd much rather be around people who can speak freely than those afraid of some multi-headed Cerberus from the shadows accountable to no one, judging everything that isn't themselves. Talk about feeling unwelcome.
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Post by optimus on Aug 25, 2021 16:01:07 GMT -5
Isn't the assumption of transphobia used all the time? I haven't seen it manifest in all these heated discussions. You might have an example here and there but people where banned for various other reasons. I am getting sick of listening all the time about fighting against bigotry for all those marginalized groups. At this point, all these groups have become privileged, like they are endangered species. Right now me saying this, it will seem like the proof of my bigotry, but I am telling I have nothing against any gender, race or sexuality. I just simply don't care. It's just that I can't shake off that feeling, that certain groups are.. you must be delicate around, like they have special privileges of shall not be touched! Every time someone says the words "transphobia", we are fighting "transphobia", I know that there is an emotional force with it, it's use like an emotional bludgeon and make people suddenly panic "NO! I am not the Bigot!!!" and close their brains and succumb. It's a SCARY word. It's an emotional bludgeon you throw there and can make a lot of people not dare to criticize anything. I have become numb to it.
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,108
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Post by 40oz on Aug 25, 2021 16:26:14 GMT -5
Doomworld is basically the same site today as it was when I started visiting 25 years ago; a website dedicated to Doom that is firmly moderated to be as welcoming as possible. The problem some of you have is you think Doomworld is akin to an open platform when it is more apt to think of Doomworld as a shopping mall. People are basically free to come and go as they please--some people wear leather jackets and sport mohawks while others are soccer moms taking their kids to the pretzel vender after practice. All these people are free to congregate, talk amongs themselves--even about politics--and generally be themeselves, but if you start causing a scene and making some of the patrons feel uncomfortable, mall security is going to ask you to leave. This is why Doomworld cracks down hard on negative comments about gender, race and sexuality... it makes those groups feel unwanted... the point of the mall analogy is that these groups get to feel free to visit and post about Doom and be creative without reading negative shit. If you want to yell exclusionary things about trans people, take it out of the mall. Doomer Boards is more like having drinks at 40oz house; people are going to say some truly mean shit and there are groups of people who arent' going to feel comfortable being here... but it's 40oz's house, and he decides what conversations people have in his home. I simply prefer a place where I can bring my friends without worrying people are going to make them feel unwanted. How does that explain why the mall is banning my house?
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Post by ketmar on Aug 25, 2021 16:36:39 GMT -5
the point of the mall analogy is that these groups get to feel free to visit and post about Doom and be creative without reading negative shit. If you want to yell exclusionary things about trans people, take it out of the mall. but of course, as i never said that i am a trans, dew can shit on me as he wants to, without any consequences for him. let me remind you that dew is a staff member, which means that i cannot even ignore him using the standard forum "ignore" function. this is really very welcoming. especially from staff members.
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