xeepeep
Banned
Forever
Posts: 2,338
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Post by xeepeep on Jun 7, 2021 15:17:16 GMT -5
Honestly scubasteve your argumentation in your last few posts is completely legit and I absolutely get it. Real shit. I'm crossing you out of my list of doomworld assholes I keep under my bed and that I sometimes pull out and weep over how dew would be mean to me. That's all I wanted to say.
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dn
Body Count: 02
the motherfucking darknation
Posts: 1,762
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Post by dn on Jun 7, 2021 21:20:50 GMT -5
Agreed. Stop throwing steve under the bus about the alleged homophobia in AD2. Some other massive faggot wrote that shit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 21:51:51 GMT -5
scubasteve, ban cannot be justified by a position "everything doesn't have to be political". No should anyone feel compelled to cut the political content out of their work because of that position. Impie made conscious choice to include those politics, and while it is legit that he may suffer a reputation loss among the crowd with an opposing opinion, that doesn't mean it is legit to throw him out of community. So it is not Impie, but the moderator who banned him the one who crossed a line. Impie's stance is completely legit and I hope he continues down that line. May his glory surpass all the past cacowards winners combined.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 22:01:23 GMT -5
scubasteve, to clarify, in my previous post I am arguing against the point that Impie had to change any of mod's content because of the feedback received, whether to avoid reputation loss or ban. You seem to promote opinion that artists should refrain from using their work as a vessel to send a political message, especially if that message is controversial, but I hold the opinion that artists can use their art to promote whatever the fuck they want. I do not, however, consider you the one responsible for his ban, directly or indirectly, and as I stated before, I don't have positive/negative bias towards/against DW members anymore.
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MegaPancakeStrategist
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
IF YOU ARE READING THIS YOUR MAP NEEDS MORE LIGHTING VARIATION
Posts: 1,011
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 7, 2021 22:05:07 GMT -5
I hold the opinion that artists can use their art to promote whatever the fuck they want. Preach it!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 22:07:54 GMT -5
MegaPancakeStrategist, I am not a native English speaker so the irony you might have intended is lost on me. Did you mean "we agree to disagree" or "practice what you preach", i.e. "make a wad/mod with a controversial political opinion and publish it"?
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MegaPancakeStrategist
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
IF YOU ARE READING THIS YOUR MAP NEEDS MORE LIGHTING VARIATION
Posts: 1,011
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 7, 2021 22:12:36 GMT -5
@vigilantdoomer If Doomer Boards had a 'Like' system in place think of it as me 'Liking' your post. Thank goodness this place doesn't have one though. Thumbs up; I meant general approval.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 22:19:13 GMT -5
MegaPancakeStrategist, cool. I just got confused by the fact that the word "preach" by itself is imbued with negative connotations, like forcing an opinion down other people's throat, and that urban dictionary's entry on the phrase is equally confusing (for me as non-native English speaker once again), whereas a lot of other results I got when searching for the idiom's meaning were garbage, or referenced urban dictionary again. I also don't use Google or similar personal data collectors directly which leaves with me with search engines which give suboptimal results, like Duckduckgo or Searx.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,077
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 7, 2021 22:26:53 GMT -5
The ban is justified, because Impie said they added the political commentary to piss people off, and then gets highly defensive when people are pissed, would've been better if they didn't keep insulting everyone for several pages. If you're making political commentary to piss people off, you're not really making political commentary; you're just pissing people off, and when you do that you get banned.
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Post by scubasteve on Jun 7, 2021 22:56:59 GMT -5
You seem to promote opinion that artists should refrain from using their work as a vessel to send a political message, especially if that message is controversial, but I hold the opinion that artists can use their art to promote whatever the fuck they want. No, I believe artists need to decide WHICH one they want; make a political statement or a project with mass appeal. If you want to make a political wad... make a political wad, but don't write some half-assed psuedo-politcal dialog and try to straddle the line, it feels lazy and hackneyed. There is, without a doubt, a place for artists to make political statements with their work... but if that's the case, go all-in. Dynamite Duchess tries to do both--appeal to a broader audience while simultaneously being a commentary about COVID restrictions--and is worse for it.
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,111
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Post by 40oz on Jun 7, 2021 23:11:37 GMT -5
joe-ilya it sounds like you asked tarns to describe what happened on the thread to you without reading it yourself, and you just posted his summary here.
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Justince
Doomer
Professional Face-Puncher
Posts: 496
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Post by Justince on Jun 7, 2021 23:27:12 GMT -5
You may not actually hate gay people, or have since changed your views since then, and that's good. But nevertheless, whatever influenced you to make that section in your doom mod was fuel for your creative expression. If you hadn't made that section, the mod would be significantly lessened in content, and you'd have to either skip the section and/or create something else that called on you to make it instead. You are 100%, completely on the mark about Action Doom 2... and this is why I try to reach out to "edgy" creators and impart a little wisdom.... Everything doesn't have to be political all the time... you can just make a cutesy Doom mod where you play a girl in a castle with overbearing parents. So I guess ignorance is an excuse. But only when one side is guilty. Also fuck you. If the girl and the parents were locked in the castle following all the COVID restrcitions and wearing their masks outside you wouldn't have said shit. You wouldn't have brought your little dogpile troupe of assholes with you. You're the only person who brought up politics in the thread, because they were ones you didn't like. It had nothing to do with the legitimacy of the argument or the storytelling, that's some pissant cover for your shitty behavior. Who are you fooling aside from your sycophant suckups? Oh sure Impie can make a political wad, how nice he has your permission. Only if it's the progressive orthodoxy that Doomworld approves of. Impart that wisdom right up your ass you condescending twat.
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Post by scubasteve on Jun 7, 2021 23:41:26 GMT -5
Hurry up and die from Covid so the adults can continue talking.
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MegaPancakeStrategist
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
IF YOU ARE READING THIS YOUR MAP NEEDS MORE LIGHTING VARIATION
Posts: 1,011
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 7, 2021 23:47:31 GMT -5
Hurry up and die from Covid so the adults can continue talking. Cringe.
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Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 594
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Post by Lobo on Jun 7, 2021 23:53:25 GMT -5
Hurry up and die from Covid so the adults can continue talking. The mask slips. I was even slightly swayed by your previous eloquent posts.
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Post by scubasteve on Jun 8, 2021 0:01:59 GMT -5
Justince is a bad-faith actor and deserves the respect he gives others. Everyone else has argued in good-faith and I'm happy to have real conversations with them.
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peerdolius
Doomer
I met God and he was THOD - Viper
Posts: 181
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Post by peerdolius on Jun 8, 2021 0:17:48 GMT -5
Hurry up and die from Covid so the adults can continue talking. Jesus Christ
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Post by Washing Machine Enthusiasts on Jun 8, 2021 0:41:20 GMT -5
Hurry up and die from Covid so the adults can continue talking. Stay classy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 2:04:49 GMT -5
"The ban is justified, because Impie said they added the political commentary to piss people off, and then gets highly defensive when people are pissed, would've been better if they didn't keep insulting everyone for several pages. If you're making political commentary to piss people off, you're not really making political commentary; you're just pissing people off, and when you do that you get banned." ^^^This pretty much. I wouldn't have banned him myself, but he knew what would happen when he posted that on Doomworld, unless he is a complete idiot. It was his reaction that sealed the deal, not the mod itself. As for me, I enjoy waiting until someone does edgy and then I try to figure out their level of intelligence and decide whether or not to publically shame them. Controversial shit is cool, but edgelording is pretty lame. And edgelords usually fall into the single digit IQ category because a lot of them are kids. And I really like making fun of kids "The younger the better, and preferably in front of their friends" -Gary Glitter, 2021 Also Scubasteeve, posting lame shit like that proves that you also have a little bit of growing up to do, as it reeks of "I still listen to Limp Bizkit". You wrote up a (probably) well-meaning but slightly egotistical post about how you try to help Slipknot edgelords, and then made a complete ass of yourself. I'm assuming you're probably over 35, yet you just reverted so far back in maturity that I can smell the shit coming out of your Linkin Park diapers from a thousand miles away. Someone said something you didn't like, and now they have to die for it. That's some true KoRn material there. Just face it, you finally came out of the edgelord closet. Don't be ashamed, it is pride month after all! Look up the definition of "subtle" in the newest edition of the Webster Dictionary when you're not touching your peepee to the thought of mating with your own ego while listening to Disturbed. Hard to "impart wisdom" when you have two tongues and each one is teaching a different lesson. I always assumed you were a decent fellow until you posted that. 40oz is literally my favorite person in the Doom community because he is honest, and even when people disagree with him here, they respect him as a person. He would never say shit like that to someone because he acts like a diplomatic adult. Telling someone to die because they insulted you over the internet is behavior that I would expect from a 10 year old, not a grown-ass man. Why don't you try posting something like that over on Doomworld? I'd like to see what would happen. Also, your "everything doesn't have to be political" statement is dumb as fuck considering 99.8% of Doom wads have no political agenda whatsoever.
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,190
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Post by matador on Jun 8, 2021 2:17:47 GMT -5
You are 100%, completely on the mark about Action Doom 2... and this is why I try to reach out to "edgy" creators and impart a little wisdom. If this was your intent, you failed completely. Your opening post was sarcastic and a bit rude, exactly the type of comment that would make someone go on the defensive. "Excuse me" and "Get the fuck out of my way" both convey that you'd like somebody to move out of your way but if you go around saying the latter to people, you'll find people are much less likely to do so and more likely to give you a piece of their mind. Same principle here. I use Action Doom 2 as an example for people like Impie; if you intend to put your work out for public consumption, be willing to alter elements that are culturally offensive... He isn't getting paid to do this, it's a hobby. He's under absolutely no obligation to alter elements that are "culturally offensive" just because he makes his work public. He's free to alter or not alter his project however he wants. It's his project. sometimes that means listening to others and being a bit humble... you don't have to "win" every time and changing some dialog isn't a "loss". Impie was able to find a point of criticism he thought had merit in Arlene's post and updated his project accordingly, despite her somewhat rude response to him. So, I'd say Impie seems to already possess this humility. If you don't want criticism, keep your project on your hardrive and don't share it with anyone. It's unfair to say that Impie doesn't want criticism simply because he doesn't find any value in your criticism. He seemed quite keen to fix the issues people had with the music transitions, for example, and he was polite with users who were not throwing insults or accusations his way, even if they had issues with his work. Sure, everyone's entitled to criticize his work since it's public but as the creator he has the right to choose which criticisms to take into account and which criticisms to discard. As the guy himself said: "I don't have a problem with people responding to the politics. I have a problem with HOW they respond. If you disagree, fine, we can talk. If you think it doesn't fit the medium, fine, we can talk. But if you feel the need to insult, bully, and reprimand me because you disagree (or even outright ban me without letting me defend myself, which has happened before), that's totally out of line." But what you fucking absolutely cannot do is what Impie did; when someone comments on topical elements in your project, retreat into your shell and yell "haha you stupid fucks, I meant to trigger you all along, bring it!" Except that Impie never actually said that or did that. He explicitly stated that he did not intend to provoke people with his project. He did say that, because of the subject matter he felt people might be offended but recognizing that a topic is controversial is not the same as seeking to provoke people. He did say that he was glad that it provoked people - not because he meant to trigger people but because it showed the mask dropping. You know, like how you just told Justince to die of COVID in this thread. I put my work out for public consumption and I want the most amount of people to play it and enjoy it. Fair enough but it's absolute valid to make something for a niche audience as well. As I said, Impie's not getting paid for this - it's his own creative endeavor so it's up to him whether he wants it to have a broad appeal or not. Should Ribbiks stop making maps since his maps are too hard for a large percentage of the Doom playerbase? Should there be no puzzle maps because Doom, for a lot of people, is a game about action? Everything doesn't have to be political all the time... you can just make a cutesy Doom mod where you play a girl in a castle with overbearing parents. And everything doesn't have to be apolitical all the time. If the politics ruins Dynamite Duchess for you, that's fair - perhaps the project just isn't for you. I didn't see any incidences of Impie's politics seeping into his Splatterhouse TC or his Robocop one, so perhaps those would be more up your alley.
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Post by optimus on Jun 8, 2021 4:06:02 GMT -5
Scubasteve in effect said, we live in 2021 not the 90s. Maybe a gay joke was cool back then but times have changed. Ok. But the lockdown covid situation is present and affects people in different ways. It is not something that is dated and everyone agrees. If there are people who are pissed for staying one year at home, losing their jobs, feeling like they are held by the government, they are absolutely legitimate in expressing this through a Doom WAD. Of course, others who were affected equally by losing their own from covid and believing we should have all lockdowned much stricter, have the right to react. But the problem is present and it also became political, and it happens that certain forums have been dominated by one side politically (or the other is afraid to speak, because the general consensus on the mainstream media is that they are the extremes and everything else is normal). BLM is another issue that affects people on some cities.
I get it that things that most of us would cringe, like actual homophobia (which I don't think you Action Doom 2 ever was), in the present day would annoy most of us. But the Covid/BLM is still ungoing, however one side is dominating in the mainstream media and social media and they even censor every opposing view and promote this feeling that those are extremities, so you get the idea that 90% of the people must be with the new ideology, while in reality it's few loud people at both ends, and the majority being confusing or not caring or daring to speak about it.
So,. when I see which side has dominated the mainstream, I am all for the opposite less popular side, daring to create edgy Doom WADs (although to be honest I never did such WADs and wouldn't do now, I wish I could make my dreamy WADs, damn,.. we should be advancing civilization and travelling to mars right now instead of having the culture split in two!).
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,077
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 8, 2021 4:49:25 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 5:07:51 GMT -5
Also to Xeep apparently Not Jabba said a while back he was gonna expand the moderation team so Arlene along with rd, Bridgeburner, and maybe a few others are mods now. That was proven to be a mistake at some point because now what we had all love in DW just gone into SHIEEET. I mean, woke stuff have took control over reasonable thinking.
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Justince
Doomer
Professional Face-Puncher
Posts: 496
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Post by Justince on Jun 8, 2021 6:29:24 GMT -5
Justince is a bad-faith actor and deserves the respect he gives others. Everyone else has argued in good-faith and I'm happy to have real conversations with them. "When people download the latest Doom TC masterpiece—which just happens to be simply adorable—they often think to themselves, "You know what this TC was missing? Needlessly shoehorned political opinions." Boy you certainly broke fast. This is what Scuba's definition of good faith looks like everyone. This is the deep political discussion he decided to 'engage' Impie with. Funny, from here it looks like a gutless, passive aggressive dogwhistle, but maybe that's just me. Is this how you broach politics at home? Sashay into the room with a Cosmo and say hold the white supremacy? Real respect brother. You're a coward and a fake.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 7:20:30 GMT -5
Scube, even Tormentor just threw you under the fucking bus. You must have imparted some excellent wisdom upon him.
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