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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 24, 2023 14:52:40 GMT -5
Of course I think my taste is superior, I'm not in the habit of intentionally holding opinions I know to be inferior. What a blunt jab, you can do much better (probably not). As for the authority part, I don't need quotes - a dedicated dw thread, a boatload of followers and five minutes on clippy / sandwege's server will prove my point. Feels like a very personal targeting tbh, either mtpain is your buddy or you're still butthurt over that dbp convo from a while ago. Either way, time to get over it, innit? Also at least ping me or quote me next time you try and call me out, it's basic respect
Appreciate the lesson on forum etiquette, hopefully a quote covers the formalities.
Didn't expect we were jumping straight to the victim card...but despite your wild assumptions about my motivations, I just find it curious when I see what appears to be opinions glibly tossed out as facts. I have a weird habit of occasionally wondering to myself if maybe I'm wrong on a topic, or maybe something is happening and I'm just not seeing it, so I tend to, once in a while, inquire on those who seem to know what I don't.
You didn't give me much to go on here, but let me see if I can summarize your viewpoints on when somebody becomes regarded as an authority:
- When a discussion thread is created about their project. - When they get an large but indeterminate amount of followers.
- When some random servers you've been on talk about the project (I'm a little vague on this one.)
And if I had to distill that down into a single point, I might say:
- When the project/person gains a modicum of popularity.
Would that be a fair assessment? Please correct me if I got anything wrong and feel free to have the last word on the subject. I wouldn't want to be baselessly accused of carrying on the conversation with you personal targeting of you.
mtpain is my dad btw, how'd you know
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CittyKat112
Doomer
Kitty cat one hundred and twelve
Posts: 640
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Post by CittyKat112 on Sept 24, 2023 15:37:24 GMT -5
thelokk most of your posts in this thread are so pretentious and smug, idk how you can even talk about 'basic respect' with this attitude. It almost feels like you're an angsty teenager who likes to act as a contrarian and that's why you feel the need to talk shit about DoD. Using vague statements like '90% of the time he doesn't even know what he's talking about' (would you care to elaborate here?) and claiming he has a 'bland' taste doesn't make your arguments any better. Actually, saying someone has a 'bland' or 'bad' taste in music/games/movies/whatever is a very childish thing to say. Also biz didn't tag you because he probably thought you bookmarked this thread after seeing how many times you posted in it.
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 24, 2023 15:39:27 GMT -5
if anything in the 90s mandatory secrets and obscure progression were more common, and 100% kills from pistol start no joke, so you're probably gonna need those secrets. you ever tried pistol starting dystopia 3 or something. and yeah i'm sure they "tested" all of those wads from "pistol start," but you know now it's not like the dude trashed my favorite wad (that would be plutonia 2 or something), i'm still surmising he's not gonna make my ideal review of mars war as a certified A++ cult classic, won't extol the virtues of absoldis.wad and likely won't treat even mm2 fairly I hear that sentiment regarding progression/secrets expressed frequently about older wads. Admittedly I haven't played much from the 90s outside of the iwads (or many doom wads in general), so i don't have much of an opinion on it. My view is always that looking back at the history is important to understanding why a work is the way it is...but that it will eventually come under scrutiny through the modern lens and that is unavoidable.
Its sort of funny you bring up a potential MM2 review because that seemed to be what another person was worried about as well. You may be right, but speculating about some potential review that might possibly happen in the future doesn't interest me much. If it happens we will see.
If anything, what I take away from all the talk regarding the requiem episode is that there is an appetite for other critics to review wads with both continuous play and from a purely historical perspective.
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CittyKat112
Doomer
Kitty cat one hundred and twelve
Posts: 640
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Post by CittyKat112 on Sept 24, 2023 15:59:37 GMT -5
so when you spend most of the video criticizing ammo balance in uv max pistol start in a 90s wad you should probably keep in mind you're doing so from a modern perspective, and maybe not give it a C- cuz it hasn't misri halek in it and it wasn't made by team tnt Imo this would ruin the fun of his reviews. Also your post reminded me about some of the games I used to like when I was a kid and realizing they're not that great when I played them when I was an adult lol.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Sept 24, 2023 17:15:18 GMT -5
I like mtpain27's reviews a lot. I think if I had my own classic megawad review channel, our reviews would be pretty much the same except he's better at brevity with analogies and doomslang I can understand. It's ok that something you remember being cool back when you played it isn't cool now anymore. If you take issue with that, i urge you to make a list of wads you'd recommend to a new player and meticulously replay them yourself from start to finish to see if they scratch the same itch they used to. It is best to take classic wads at their face value because it makes these reviews current. It doesn't make sense to me to review things positively today while apologizing for all a wad's shortcomings just because it was better and exciting back when it was new. It's never gonna be 1997 again, so how is anyone supposed to connect with that?
I will say the grading doesn't mean anything to me, (I never remember what any of the letters mean.) As wernergoldberg pointed out, they're attributed to his opinion at the time of the review and probably would be different 10-15 years from now, maybe, so its probably not important to remember what letter grade anything got. I think it might also contribute a little more than desired to his perceived stance as any authority on Doom. Remember, mtPain27 is just any guy with free time, a good microphone, and knows how to edit videos. Anybody can jump into his place if you have the skills and equipment and can come up with words people like to hear. He's not special, or anything.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
R.I.P. Aaron Bushnell and over 34,000 genocided Gazans.
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Post by Gokuma on Sept 24, 2023 17:29:49 GMT -5
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Sept 24, 2023 17:32:12 GMT -5
the most infamous being a near obsession with 'respecting the player's time', which usually means providing an on-rails experience that doesn't leave room for detours, exploration for exploration's sake and the need for actually getting good. I got the opposite interpretation from this. Anything that is mandatory instrumentally dictates an 'on-rails' experience because you have to do it. Effectively, any map that has an exit switch right at the start of the map + the largest, vastest, perceivable amount of optional exploration you could put in it is guaranteed to respect the player's time. This is because immediate access to the exit switch eliminates any requirement to do anything at all. The rest of the map is completely at your disposal. I've played many maps made entirely of linear progression that absolutely barricade hallways with dense monster crowds and barely enough weapons or firepower to get through it without a minimum 30 minute commitment. It is indeed very boring, and very frustrating to play, especially if you're a busy adult that doesn't have the same free time for playing Doom as I did when I was 13 and had no responsibilities. If I'm not enjoying it, I either get over it and begrudgingly do it anyway, resort to cheat codes, or quit. I think its pretty important for today's level designers to know if they're creating a miserable experience if they are looking at the success of classic megawads for inspiration.
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Post by wernergoldberg on Sept 24, 2023 18:23:36 GMT -5
i'd still put mm2 in the top 10 wads of all time or something and it's the last megawad i replayed, so it's more preference than nostalgia really. it's the one i'd recommend to a new player to see if they like weird 90s shit, if they do then requiem is at least in the top 20 despite its shortcomings. alien vendetta imo is more like in the top 50, but mtpain seems to think it's A++ timeless and gave tnt a B iirc, so i'm still gonna think his taste has nothing at all to do with mine. "hordes of monsters to boringly plow through" describes av more than requiem to me for instance, and that's because i wouldn't recommend to play classic megawads from pistol start in the first place, not even if you're 13 (i also played mars war after all these modern a++++ quality megawad and think it's in the top 20 too. my brain might be diseased, or maybe people should stop avoiding 90s tropes fearing people won't like them. most of them won't, but i probably will)
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Sept 25, 2023 21:54:47 GMT -5
My favorite thing about the Dean Of Doom is how how divisive he is. Peoples views of him seem to range from him being some sort of gatekeeping art snob type to a casual trend chaser. I think he's just a guy that likes Doom enough to have made some videos on it that did well and is running with it's success. I've probably watched every review with varying degrees of attention paid to them. Fairly neutral on his opinions and I certainly find them inoffensive. It's better content than some other Doom-centric channels. Some of his humor is a bit ugh but watching his last review of Machete, when it cut into the Unabomber manifesto I got a little chuckle out of that.
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Post by wernergoldberg on Sept 25, 2023 22:39:49 GMT -5
he certainly plays it safe most of the time going for community hyped or cacoward stuff, also has some preference for atmosphere over gameplay so i can see the "art snob" critique, but he isn't really that. i cringe when he reviews anything not made in the last 20 years (i also cringe when i play anything 90s inspired not made by valkiriforce). still mostly "safe" takes i happen not to agree with
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StodgyAyatollah
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Sept 25, 2023 23:41:06 GMT -5
I mostly agree with the perspective that his takes are safe but think that just means somewhat common. I do remember him pissing off a lot of people for being critical of BTSX2 so I'm under the impression he's not trying to tow some line. I know a lot of people playing Doom these days are a bit younger so just have different sensibilities since their familiarity with it, and gaming in general is reasonably different due to what slice they've been exposed to out of the sheer volume of content. I think it's fair to assume that a lot of these people found the doomworld top list or cacowards and start digging there. I'd be surprised if he didn't. Hell, I think that's one of the first things I looked at when I found out people had been making Doom stuff for years. The game was a big part of my childhood but I was limited to the first two and later the ps1 and snes ports. I remember making some Quake maps back in the early days with worldcraft but didn't think anyone else was really doing the same let alone for an even older game. Once I found out there were tons of maps out there I primarily searched for older stuff I missed out on but also looked at more modern stuff as an aside. That's had a huge impact on my tastes. If I were to do a review show I would piss off everyone across the board since my tastes are all over the place. I wouldn't be able to clearly articulate what I personally enjoy and that's even with the benefit of seeing it from inside my own head. In the end I don't mind people expressing their opinions as long as they're not trying to claim the subjective as objective and he's reviewed a fair few wads I haven't played but have at least enough interest in to watch a video on. Light Doom content that doesn't require much attention to watch in the background imo.
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Post by wernergoldberg on Sept 26, 2023 1:06:36 GMT -5
i don't even think his reviews say anything much other than "i like/don't like thing" most of the time tbh. his prose sounds either taken from a commercial or like he's sniffing his own farts, so for all i know he's masking his actual preferences since he's applying pretty vague criterias to everything, once in a while taking a jab at some mapper i actually like. ultimately i'm unable to take him seriously, i guess he's fine for introducing people to some popular wads in an easily digestible format. better critiques have already been written (mostly somewhere on idgames by some random troll. pretty epic you can't comment anonymously on wads anymore btw, coincidentally that was somewhere around 2017. so many coincidences)
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Sept 26, 2023 2:23:04 GMT -5
Yeah, his reviews don't say much at all. Maybe a single bullet point, sometimes two for each map and an arbitrary grade. I think most people aren't going to take a review channel for a 90's game seriously. For me I get to see a little footage and hear the midi for each map. His voiceover isn't something I really pay attention to. Nobody seems to be doing serious, thoughtful videos reviewing/discussing doom wads regularly but if anyone was I'd probably watch them too.
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Post by rancidsam on Sept 26, 2023 6:49:11 GMT -5
For me, personally, it's EnragedEggplant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 7:11:59 GMT -5
Honestly, all I'm getting from this discussion at the end of the day is how out of touch my preferences in Doom mapping and playing are with... pretty much anyone else's. Meh, whatever, I'll live with it.
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Post by wernergoldberg on Sept 26, 2023 7:38:01 GMT -5
yah i want everyone to put mark klem midis and map with DEU
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 7:48:04 GMT -5
yah i want everyone to put mark klem midis and map with DEU I wish I still mapped with DEU, I could just floodfill a room with STARTAN, slap The Wind on every map and call it a day. Those were the good times.
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Post by wernergoldberg on Sept 26, 2023 9:00:02 GMT -5
not even into slaughtersh1t, but sunder map 17 was a good start
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