40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 8, 2017 13:13:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 16:01:41 GMT -5
Good that you reposted this here. I don't want to invade the Doomworld thread just to talk about how I'm not interested in the project, but I have to say the 100 lines concept exhausted its potential really quickly in my opinion, much faster than 1024x1024 or grid 32/64 did. 100 lines maps are sooo damn similar to each other. Everything is lifeless and primitive like in a truly horrible 1994 level, these ugly triangles and acute angles are all over the place, and almost no areas are genuinely pleasant to look at. There's just nothing in them that stands out to me. They almost seem computer generated in a way because the overly strict limitations force everyone to come up with pretty much the same solutions to the problem of saving some lines (usually the solution is to use triangles). Well, I guess the good thing about these wads is that they helped me better understand what makes a Doom map different from thousands of other Doom maps. Boring wads are often a great material for analysis.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 8, 2017 16:12:00 GMT -5
pcorf's Zone 300 (300 lines) was pretty good and wasn't too strict. The maps were short and were very light on detail, but the compromises like you describe that pcorf may have had to make weren't very noticeable to me.
I could be wrong, but I think people like working within limitations like only being allowed x amount of sectors, lines or time because they need a place to stop so they can release something once in a while. Some people's maps are just never finished.
I don't know of a good solution for that. For me, I make maps in a weird way where I try to create the exit pretty early in the process, and then just build towards the start. That seems to work best for me, but I don't know if other people would find that very useful.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 16:26:02 GMT -5
Yeah, Zone 300 was many many times better! (more than 3) Quite a few of the levels actually felt rather "legit" and didn't at all look like weird experiments that are mostly interesting to the author himself.
You're totally right that such concepts can be great for people who can't seem to get anything done. This one just seems too extreme to me.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
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Post by joe-ilya on Dec 9, 2017 6:48:04 GMT -5
It's all about the gameplay with this limitation, the additional 200 lines in Zone 300 are mainly just used as detail if you haven't noticed.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 9, 2017 10:13:00 GMT -5
What do you think about the game play in BYTESIZD compared to Zone 300, Joe?
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,070
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Post by joe-ilya on Dec 9, 2017 15:11:08 GMT -5
I didn't play BYTESIZD yet, but I did play through the entirety of the 100 lines community project (both packs, one of which I contributed two maps, I even made speedruns for each episode in the traditional pack, they're on my Youtube channel and on DSDA)
Zone 300 plays the same as 100 lines, it just looks prettier.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 9, 2017 17:33:32 GMT -5
I get what you're saying memfis. About 3 maps into this I felt like I've seen the full extent of how good this wad is going to get. Nothing against traversd. Its just that 100 lines is a pitifully low limitation to work with.
you need lines for the important things like doors, switches, teleports, and most importantly, cover! all the parts with chaingunners, pain elementals, arachnatrons and archviles were exhausting! The maps don't look good, obviously. But they also don't look like they're trying to look like anything either. It felt a lot like playing Oblige. Theres just not a lot of life to the experience.
I felt after playing this, that it might be a better limitation project to map until you hit 10,000 lines lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 11:55:37 GMT -5
I always felt that mapping limitations and concepts are more interesting to the mappers rather to the players. Mappers can experiment with unusual stuff and probably learn new things while the rules they set allow them to work faster.
Edit: that said 1024x1024 still allows good opportunities and I enjoyed the Claustrophobia wads, even though you can recognize the most used trick of teleporting monsters from outside the map. Mayhem1500 (1500 lines) was quite nice overall, 100 lines is too severe to actually do something that could stand out. And this is probably cherry-picked but 32 Inch Nails (grid 32) by Eternal is fantastic.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 13:26:26 GMT -5
I felt after playing this, that it might be a better limitation project to map until you hit 10,000 lines lol. Now this sounds interesting. I think I actually never reached that number as my stuff tends to be smallish, with vanilla kind of detail. I'll have to give it a try some day. Eternal is amazing at working with limits! His 2x2 series (2 flats, 2 textures) are absolutely mindblowing. And his speedmapping skills are insane too (can you believe that the last map of Baker's Dozen was made in 4 hours?). |
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