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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 15, 2017 16:23:08 GMT -5
And I was banned for saying "nigger", for fucks sake Doomworld! Also fucking Dew's labeling people "rejects" like he's some kind of "the true chosen one", it's a good thing not many support them (according to the amount of likes they both have) and more people support the things DoomKid and Memfis say. Dew and an_mutt are the perfect examples of hate speech, not the highly regarded N-word, I wish the hypocrisy and ignorance at DW would stop.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by TOS on Oct 15, 2017 16:26:05 GMT -5
And I was banned for saying "nigger", for fucks sake Doomworld! Also fucking Dew's labeling people "rejects" like he's some kind of "the true chosen one", it's a good thing not many support them (according to the amount of likes they both have) and more people support the things DoomKid and Memfis say. Dew and an_mutt are the perfect examples of hate speech, not the highly regarded N-word, I wish the hypocrisy and ignorance at DW would stop. Fuck 'em. It's better here anyway as far as I'm concerned. I had originally asked doomkid to request an appeal on my behalf to the mods there...but I just don't care anymore.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 15, 2017 16:38:45 GMT -5
And I was banned for saying "nigger", for fucks sake Doomworld! Also fucking Dew's labeling people "rejects" like he's some kind of "the true chosen one", it's a good thing not many support them (according to the amount of likes they both have) and more people support the things DoomKid and Memfis say. Dew and an_mutt are the perfect examples of hate speech, not the highly regarded N-word, I wish the hypocrisy and ignorance at DW would stop. The word actually has a lot of weight attributed to it here in the United States. You might know that already, but there are many years of oppression in our country's history that the word does nothing but diminish the significance of those horrible centuries. I know you don't mean to hurt anyone with it, but in general you really shouldn't use it because there isn't anything useful to say with it. For everyone else, please know i have great respect for all of you as Doomers, but kindly refrain from using this thread to vent your frustrations with Doomworld or specific members of Doomworld. I'm serious when I say this forum isn't meant to be an anti-doomworld cabal. I have to remind everyone that there's a rule here not to attack people who aren't here to defend themselves. Please respect that rule.
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 15, 2017 17:34:38 GMT -5
I apologize if I came out hateful to the hateful members, I'm just pointing out their flaws and that they broke the content policy in their forum, but that's what happens when anyone says anything "nigga"tive. 40oz That word only has great weight to a few people, and most of these people are pretentious morons who don't even know about the history of the black slave market in Africa (which I'm certain coined the term "nigger" in the first place and is a market that still exists) and say shit like "Blacks are fewer than white, meaning they're oppressed" but don't know that the blacks make half the crimes in USA and don't even make 20% of the USA population and think that the Americans just simply barged into africa and just started taking people as slaves without anyones permission. There's even an entire channel dedicated to debunking people like these (from which I got the pointers represented here), that's how moronic these people are and how the word got its unnecessery weight.
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laispooky
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Post by laispooky on Oct 15, 2017 22:02:11 GMT -5
Yeah they really are hateful, they banned me for no reason. I'm just a girl.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2017 22:06:41 GMT -5
Yeah joe I get what you're saying but it's pretty ugly to be dropping the n word a bunch of times here for no use other than prove some kind of point.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 15, 2017 22:33:44 GMT -5
I hope you trust me that I'm not making an argument in an attempt to embarrass you, i just want to be clear that we both understand this the same way. Many generations of African Americans were born into slavery here in the United States, where they were forced to work hard labor for no wages and no opportunities for education or healthcare. Even after slavery was abolished in 1865, they didn't even know what to do but to keep working because it wasn't like it was socially acceptable yet for them to get the benefits of a normal American citizen for many decades. This took a humiliatingly long amount of time before they could actually get realistic rights and become treated in an equal way. There's some pretty obvious and recent evidence that there are plenty of white US Americans failing to adapt to the times.
So for all intents and purposes, the statistics aren't really fair because many generations of African Americans were conditioned to not pursue greatness. Their entire lives were spent being brought up in a world where it was not only once against the law to try to do anything other than what the white man tells you to do, but because even when that law was removed for being fucking crazy, it didn't change the social status that they had for another hundred years almost. They got segregated from the white neighborhoods and shoved into old ghettos where children were raised surrounded by criminals and negligent and dangerous people. It's an uphill battle to escape from that kind of toxic environment when your entire family tree comes from a long heritage of institutionalized mediocrity, and your only friends share that feeling of apathy. Especially because the rate of industrialization in the 1800's that got these multi-generational wealthy families in the powerful positions they are in are due primarily to the fact that white people had so much free time to innovate technology and shit while African Americans were doing all our hard work.
I may be a white supremacist in one's eyes but this was a particularly slimy part in the US history that I believe any real racist is blindly ignoring. I have to admit that I hate that I laughed when I read "nigga"tive but It's important to me that we're on the same page about this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2017 23:00:04 GMT -5
Joe, would you mind changing your custom title to something without the n-word in it? I'm by no means offended, and I do think there is a great deal of oversensitivity surrounding that term and who should and shouldn't be allowed to use it, but because we operate on a forum that dictates certain rules about perceived hatespeech, I'd look on it as a personal favor if you'd take that out of your custom title, just in case ProBoards decides they want to enforce rules that they have every right to enforce.
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 20, 2017 12:14:51 GMT -5
I hope you trust me that I'm not making an argument in an attempt to embarrass you, i just want to be clear that we both understand this the same way. Many generations of African Americans were born into slavery here in the United States, where they were forced to work hard labor for no wages and no opportunities for education or healthcare. Even after slavery was abolished in 1865, they didn't even know what to do but to keep working because it wasn't like it was socially acceptable yet for them to get the benefits of a normal American citizen for many decades. This took a humiliatingly long amount of time before they could actually get realistic rights and become treated in an equal way. There's some pretty obvious and recent evidence that there are plenty of white US Americans failing to adapt to the times. So for all intents and purposes, the statistics aren't really fair because many generations of African Americans were conditioned to not pursue greatness. Their entire lives were spent being brought up in a world where it was not only once against the law to try to do anything other than what the white man tells you to do, but because even when that law was removed for being fucking crazy, it didn't change the social status that they had for another hundred years almost. They got segregated from the white neighborhoods and shoved into old ghettos where children were raised surrounded by criminals and negligent and dangerous people. It's an uphill battle to escape from that kind of toxic environment when your entire family tree comes from a long heritage of institutionalized mediocrity, and your only friends share that feeling of apathy. Especially because the rate of industrialization in the 1800's that got these multi-generational wealthy families in the powerful positions they are in are due primarily to the fact that white people had so much free time to innovate technology and shit while African Americans were doing all our hard work. I may be a white supremacist in one's eyes but this was a particularly slimy part in the US history that I believe any real racist is blindly ignoring. I have to admit that I hate that I laughed when I read "nigga"tive but It's important to me that we're on the same page about this. OK, I changed my title, it no longer has the N-word, if you give it the N yourself, it's your fault. Same things apply to women and homosexuals, yet not as heavy weight is attributed to words like "fag" and "cunt" ( @glenzinho ), were blacks having more trouble than women and gays? That heavier weight implies it. The statistics are very fair, 40oz , I didn't take them from 1817 (like you implied : "industrialization in the 1800's"), I took them from 2017 where everyone but criminals (any criminals) have free oppurtunities and in 2008 even a black president was elected, I'm saying blacks have just as much oppurtunities in the USA as anyone else and the N-word is no longer affecting or truly offending anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 16:32:26 GMT -5
Joe, the point is you’re not black. You using that word is just ugly for a Russian Israeli or whatever you are, forgive me if I’ve moved you to another country.
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 20, 2017 17:45:10 GMT -5
I'm not really seeing the ugliness, my parents say that word, my friends say that word and even my black friends say that and don't get offended when I call them that as well, my social circle and I keep it in a friendly manner, I'm not sure about yours though. Just because I'm not black doesn't mean I can't use the N-word in a non-offending way at least, that would be racist.
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Post by deathevokation on Oct 20, 2017 19:03:12 GMT -5
My Israeli friends (all nice people with not a fiber of hatred in their bodies) use the word a lot as well, I guess the country just doesn't have a sensitive history with the word.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 21, 2017 8:43:25 GMT -5
Same things apply to women and homosexuals, yet not as heavy weight is attributed to words like "fag" and "cunt" ( @glenzinho ), were blacks having more trouble than women and gays? That heavier weight implies it. The statistics are very fair, 40oz , I didn't take them from 1817 (like you implied : "industrialization in the 1800's"), I took them from 2017 where everyone but criminals (any criminals) have free oppurtunities and in 2008 even a black president was elected, I'm saying blacks have just as much oppurtunities in the USA as anyone else and the N-word is no longer affecting or truly offending anyone. I get what you're saying. The word itself isn't reanimating slavery, it isn't physically beating people, it isn't even siphoning opportunities from people in the job market. Things are safer, more equal, more fair now than ever before. You're right about that. The problem though, is that in the United States, many people are still dealing with the aftermath of slavery and subordination in many different ways. If we thin slice this time period and review the most recent generation, yes the opportunities are available, education is provided, and racism is socially frowned upon. Still, somehow, they still aren't beating the system. The game is very fair now, and that's the best we can really do at this point, right? You're mostly right. On the govermental level, we can't really do anything at this point without stealing the rights from other races and making things inequal again, which would start the whole problem again in another way. The problem has more to do with our genetics and our ancestral upbringing. People are generally the product of their parents. If you are african american, you are born have parents who grow up and are faced with statistics that say African Americans are less likely to perform well in schools, more likely to be a criminals, and lied to by white people who say they aren't racist but still talk about why they don't like black people to their other white friends. It's very hard to stay motivated when cold hard evidence reminds you that you are disadvantaged. This message gets passed down to their children, who live in neighborhoods with other children whose parents passed that same message to them. If you, your family, your friends, and other white people truly believe you are the least likely to get ahead in life, and the confirming evidence is stacked against you, it's a much harder uphill battle to develop the same drive and motivation to make yourself an exception to all that. This stems all the way to the beginning, when african americans were forced to work for free, taught to believe that they exist only to serve white people for many generations, and were not allowed to be educated for risk of being exposed to history and valuable ideas to talk to each other about. These people have children, their children have children, and this apathy and ignorance that was forced on them follows them in smaller traces with each generation. But it's still there. The n-word was used to remind them they were "something else" not human, not worth anyone's attention, not worth loving or caring for, and certainly not allowed to talk, or think or have fun or be around other white people and their families. This word has a horribly powerful meaning because stories of slavery have been passed down for many generations, starting with people who actually had to live those tragedies of human history. The word doesnt have the same weight to us because it was used so frequently and carelessly. We paid little mind to what the slaves were actually going through because at the time we truly allowed ourselves to believe that they were inferior, that they couldn't feel, and that they wouldn't ever feel because the plan was to continue denying them their human rights now and forever. Us white people have traces of those feelings of dominance, superiority, and carelessness that our ancestors gave us across many generations. It's slowly been on the decline and now we're on the road towards equality, but African Americans are still healing. The civil rights movement wasn't very long ago. A lot of people were alive and well during a time period where slavery was gone but African Americans still needed to be segregated, and it didn't phase us to call them names and hit them and hang them from trees. We were truly sociopaths back then and it's extremely irresponsible of us to think that none of those cruel slimy genes were passed down to us from our great great great grandparents in a dormant way that shows up in ways we're not really cognizant of.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 10:15:29 GMT -5
People just need to respect each other and respect themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 10:52:13 GMT -5
I'm not an expert on any of this by any means, but I've nonetheless done a fair bit of reading on it all. It's a very complex issue. On one hand, yes, black were absolutely discriminated against in the past. Through things like redlining, bad policing, economic discrimination, etc. Some of which still continues today. That being said, it isn't anywhere near as bad. The statistics show a huge improvement, in terms of employment and equality. And of course, Barrack Obama being a recent black President. There is still some ways to go for sure, but most of the prescribed and suggested "solutions" are completely asinine. Especially the Black Lives Matter movement, which is rooted in good intentions but ultimately pushes the demands too far in the wrong direction. One example: blacklivesmatter.com/about/what-we-believe/Ctrl + F "nuclear family" (near the bottom of the page) ...oh what have we here? They want to "disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure"? By supporting each other through extended families and “villages”? Uhh... you mean dismantling the standard two parent family unit that has been proven to be a healthy and effective way to raise a family? They'd rather transform society into black villages? Just... no. No in every sense of the word. I cannot support a movement that makes these kind of claims, sorry. It is ludicrous. By this logic, they are hypocritically supporting a family structure that encourages dysfunction (fatherless) as if it's somehow a good thing. Where are the men in this equation? Further explained here. Look at the different ways people view this problem based on race. I say we stop blaming white people, and instead focus on trying to create more easily accessible and affordable education. Encouragement (instead of denial and white shaming) will go a long way to solve this mess.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 11:18:26 GMT -5
A good quote from the Brookings article as well:
"Forty-two percent own their own homes, a figure that rises to 75 percent if we look just at black married couples. Black two-parent families earn only 13 percent less than those who are white."
Nuclear families work. While great improvements for black rights have still been made alongside the nuclear family decline, you cannot deny the beneficial status it holds in the present day.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by TOS on Oct 21, 2017 11:19:55 GMT -5
Exclusivity based on ethnicity for anything, especially speech, is racial preference in the most obvious way.
Personally, I think that using racial slurs to take someone down a notch is a trait best suited for people who lack more extensive vocabularies, so I actively try to avoid using them. Have I used slurs? Yeah, but I'm human. I have flaws, and occasionally that's one of them. Digressing, I think that someone being impacted so severely by words is something that should be addressed by the individual. Contrary to what many people today believe, words are not violence. They are spoken word. Spoken word has never physically harmed anybody. People who stoop low enough to bully people are empowered by the reaction their victims give them. No reaction, no more fuel for the hate machine.
But seriously folks...whether you use ethnic slurs to attack people or give the slur-spewing idiots the reaction they want...step back, look within, and ask yourself what you're really accomplishing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 11:29:30 GMT -5
Context is everything. In some instances yes, it's racist. Other times not. You just have to judge the situation as it comes along. Not everyone is automatically racist just because they say nigger.
Oops, I just said it. Am I now a racist? My apologies to anyone offended. Can we move on now, please?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 11:38:30 GMT -5
My apologies to anyone offended. Can we move on now, please?
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by TOS on Oct 21, 2017 11:46:09 GMT -5
^RUSH, I don't understand your reason behind posting that. haha
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 11:58:46 GMT -5
I feel like sometimes people can't let things go. Even a minor mistake, like accidentally letting out a slur on the forums. I've seen people get dog-piled on Doomworld for minor slip-ups. And "dew" has a famous reputation for that.
Maybe I shouldn't be saying this. I can delete the comment if need be. It's just my own thoughts on the matter.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Glenzinho's Chicabro
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Post by TOS on Oct 21, 2017 12:01:45 GMT -5
Nah, don't censor yourself man. Your words are important and deserve to be seen.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 21, 2017 12:48:44 GMT -5
They want to "disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure"? By supporting each other through extended families and “villages”? The majority of that website seems to be pretty fair. When I read it, I think it's a little on the radical side but I'm willing to believe it may be for a reason. It's a known negotiating tactic to ask your boss for a raise that's far more than what you would actually reasonably ask for so that they will meet you in the middle, which is what you actually wanted all along. It could be the same thing. I don't really understand that quoted sentence though. Is it supposed to be like a prenuptial thing so that kids whose fathers' flee can still find a father figure in the community? It seems weird to make this fallback instead figuring where this problem is sourced from to begin with. Also RUSH, For everyone else, please know i have great respect for all of you as Doomers, but kindly refrain from using this thread to vent your frustrations with Doomworld or specific members of Doomworld. I'm serious when I say this forum isn't meant to be an anti-doomworld cabal. I have to remind everyone that there's a rule here not to attack people who aren't here to defend themselves. Please respect that rule. Please be more careful. Its part of the TOS that we don't use this forum to talk about other people outside this forum. You can go as hard as you want on people who are already here but if you don't like someone outside of here, you will have to take it up with them. I can't condone people talking about other people behind their backs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 13:25:56 GMT -5
I agree that the movement is rooted in good intentions. I'm not saying all of what they stand for is bad. I'm also not saying that there isn't still progress we can make.
Not sure if they are trying to "bargain" or not. I suppose it's possible, but at that point we're just guessing. Who knows? What we do know is what's written under their "guiding principles" as provable fact. That is what they are presenting to us, and I assume they want us to take it seriously. So we should, because it's a serious issue. It's their mission.
This is a matter of opinion, but I personally don't support the idea of villages or extended families over nuclear family structures. The statistics show nuclear families are beneficial for raising children. Yes there is pros and cons, but the pros outweigh the cons. Did you read the articles?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 14:53:54 GMT -5
The majority of that website seems to be pretty fair. When I read it, I think it's a little on the radical side but I'm willing to believe it may be for a reason. One more thing to keep in mind. While the website itself looks fair, in reality the guiding principles aren't always put into effect in such a reasonable way. For example, here is an article written by Chanelle Helm. She is the co-founder and core organizer of Black Lives Matter Louisville: www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/These are ten suggestions she has written for white people. Some are good (we all hate Nazis and the Klan) but others are pretty... demanding in tone. "White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty." "White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way." There comes a point where it's just too much already. "White privileged way"...come on now. What does 'white privilege' mean to some poor white dude living paycheck to paycheck who can barely afford to stay alive? People need to help themselves, which is why I would focus on helping people more easily access education. But no, instead it seems that the BLM movement is content with wanting everything handed to them. Not exactly exhilarating to hear. High paying jobs can be extremely stressful. These BLM supporters act as though it all comes for free to white people! Not the case! She also wants to see a cut back on police patrol. My understanding is that there is a need for police in areas subject to higher rates of crime. Though part of me wants to see the police back out. Give them what they want, just to see what happens. Study the effects, will things improve? wfpl.org/what-activist-chanelle-helm-would-like-to-see-change/
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