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Post by JadingTsunami on Oct 12, 2024 12:37:51 GMT -5
Many collaborative WADs, (arguably even DBPs), are designed around a pistol start as Doom's mechanics more or less require it.
When designing a full episode, one can manage the player's inventory to some extent, but there's no question that levels will be easier further into the episode as more weapons, ammo, health, and so on, will have accumulated.
There are simple ways to force the player to pistol-start each map, but the question is: should you?
Is it better to let the player play how they want, even if it means they will blaze through an otherwise well-balanced map because they started out with a BFG, hordes of rockets, etc.?
Or should you push the player to play the way you intend?
What's your take?
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uhhhh
Doomer
occasionally plays and maps
Posts: 47
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Post by uhhhh on Oct 12, 2024 12:46:49 GMT -5
delivering the intended experience is better.
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Post by deathevokation on Oct 12, 2024 14:13:40 GMT -5
Oppose.. should be the players choice.. pistol start is for uv max demos.
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,105
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Post by 40oz on Oct 12, 2024 15:06:47 GMT -5
I agree with deathevokation. Pistol starts are user preference, but I wouldn't advise players to play this way. Perhaps there's a subgenre of challenge maps where forcing pistol starts is desired but overall I think it's bad practice. I think mappers in general tend to overestimate how powerful the doom guy is with a full arsenal and a lot of ammo. You still die pretty easily to well-placed trap. A rocket launcher with full ammo is really hard to use in, say, a 1024 map. Likewise, BFGs have a slow fire rate and you can very quickly spend all of your ammo irresponsibly without dealing much damage. |
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JackDBS
Doomer
Zzul apologist
Posts: 31
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Post by JackDBS on Oct 12, 2024 20:44:11 GMT -5
I like it, especially in Sunlust where it's not exactly thrown out all the time, but when it is, it hits at the right moment. There's a kill exit at both MAP17 (The Womb) and MAP29 (Go F Yourself), and although the latter is optional, it guarantees that all players are in that vulnerable position where they're near fucked. The Womb would be a cakewalk for continuous players if it didn't have the kill exit in MAP16.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Oct 13, 2024 9:30:58 GMT -5
I realized after I posted this that it's of course possible to give the player the choice at the exit itself. Basically two switches, one marked "Pistol Start (intended experience)" and another marked "Keep inventory (easier)" or something like that.
I don't think I've ever seen it done but it seems interesting to me.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,342
Member is Online
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Post by SilverMiner on Oct 13, 2024 9:59:05 GMT -5
I like that bloodstain map20 death exit can be avoided with getting invulnerability before exiting. Hehehe
In my second megawad I removed death exits somewhen this year. I just made map11 an ammo drain, and it should work this way
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Post by trustanus on Oct 21, 2024 17:54:23 GMT -5
Oppose unless it is part of the narrative of the map. Like Doomguy is imprisoned and gets a pistol off a zombie man, or it’s a new chapter of the mapset that is meant to signal a new beginning. Also, if it’s a map set with several mappers, it would make sense to have it force pistol start so each map is experienced as it was designed. Though, for a narrative WAD or anything else, it just feels stupid. People can easily restart the level without carry over themselves.
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