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Post by deathevokation on Sept 28, 2017 6:28:27 GMT -5
Came across this video yesterday.. I'm not American, but damn does this grind my gears for some reason, not even for patriotic reasons.. but just for starters.. what a buzzkill low testosterone way to kick off a team game.. by disrespecting the greater team that you are all part of. South Africa has tons of societal issues as well... but what brings the country TOGETHER is standing for the same National Anthem etc. I mean.. it's so easy to see who is REALLY trying dividing a country, right?
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TOS
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Post by TOS on Sept 28, 2017 10:41:53 GMT -5
I have mixed views on the matter.
On one hand, I think it makes the players, the team, the league, and the nation look horrible when these people take a knee during the national anthem. If I were the owner of those teams, I would absolutely tell them that if they aren't willing to stand in unity with their fellow Americans, then they don't have a place on the American playing field. Politics should not be part of the game.
That being said...
It is their right to protest, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression to have, and per the consitution shall not be infringed. However, that just means that they cannot be prosecuted for the aforementioned act. However, if I were in charge, I would include a clause in their contracts that requires that they agree to keep political acts off of the field, and therefore this act of kneeling would be considered a breach of contract punishable by dismissal from the game and continued breach of contract would eliminate their contract. This would not be a violation of their rights as citizens, it would be a condition of employment.
For example...I cannot be arrested for wearing an armband with a swastika on it. That is protected by the first amendment. But can I lose my job over it? You bet your ass I can and definitely would (unless I was a professional WWII impersonator or something similar).
Taking all of that into consideration...I don't think that they should be permitted to stage protests like that while they are being paid to represent a national team. Off the field...whatever. Now, I do agree with President Trump when he says, "Get that son of a bitch off the field"...but if I were in his position, I wouldn't have even commented on it. When asked, I would have said, "I don't have the time nor the desire to grant these people an audience. I find their blatant disrespect despicable and that's all I have to say."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 5:05:40 GMT -5
I see it as more patriotic to point out things that are wrong in your country and try to improve it and make it even better. If you want to make a case for whats wrong in your home country then do that.
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dn
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Post by dn on Sept 29, 2017 5:49:13 GMT -5
You know, I fucking hate national anthems. Would you like a segment from mine?
So, yeah. National Anthems are definately apolitical. And not militaristic in anyway. And I can't imagine why the the colonies would take exception to these delightful, innocent little ditties played every time the bombs drop. Jesus, didn't everyone agree that Hendrix rehabilitated the national anthem? Fuck me, even the darkies think that the song is swell!
Stop with this Blood and Soil shit. Just change your fucking theme tune to Trololo and be done with it.
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Post by deathevokation on Sept 30, 2017 8:54:24 GMT -5
Just to be clear, I never implied anything about using the gulag as a means to make sure you bend the knee, just that I think it's pretty retarded.. sometimes I feel a lot of the world's problems could be solved if people focused on shit that makes them the same rather than shit that makes them different, sometimes things like anthems can remind you that you're all in this mess together. But yeah, that anthem's a mess, dn.. fucking hell, haha.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 11:35:55 GMT -5
I don't have the right to protest when I'm at work at my desk job. I didn't have the right to hand out political flyers or when I worked as an electrical engineer either. And when I worked as a bouncer, guess what, they didn't allow political protest, they actually wanted me to do my job. Why? Because I was on the company's dime - that's why. Yet for some reason we are being told that these multi-millionaires(clearly heavily oppressed, ya know) should be allowed to protest and voice their political opinions while at their job, because "MUH 1ST AMENDMENT, DAWG!" Both the team owners and the league are such pussies that they are backing these felons because it's a racial issue, and we all know black people are sacred cows in this country, so if you dare say one thing they disagree with you are tantamount to a racist calling for Afro-American genocide.
According to the Justice Department, cops are 2 and a half times more likely to kill a black person than a white person. Now, taken alone that statistic sounds bad. But when you understand the whole picture, it isn't. Because in good old New York, blacks are 35 times more likely to commit robberies, 38 times more likely to commit murders, and 51 times more likely to engage in shootings. So the data would seem to indicate NOT that cops are disproportionately targeting black people, but rather that they are purposefully avoiding engaging them, perhaps for political/optics reasons and to avoid negative press. This is discussed in the video below at the 34:30 mark.
Once again, we are being led to believe that we should focus on on some non-issue(racist cops, racist system, etc.) when in reality the issue is, as usual, black culture in the U.S. being utterly devoid of value and morally bankrupt, due in large part to the fact that the majority of black children grow up in single-parent households.
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dn
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Post by dn on Sept 30, 2017 12:05:00 GMT -5
I don't have the right to protest when I'm at work at my desk job. I didn't have the right to hand out political flyers or when I worked as an electrical engineer either. And when I worked as a bouncer, guess what, they didn't allow political protest, they actually wanted me to do my job. Why? Because I was on the company's dime - that's why. Did they make you sing the national anthem before you sit behind your desk? You're getting the whores before the cart here. Singing AMERICA FUCK YEAH is as much a political act as kneeling for AMERICA OH GNOES. Also, here's a picture of the England football team giving it a good ol' fashion Heil Hitler. Because they were playing in Germany. And it would have been rude to decline. Hitler would have gotten upset.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 12:18:19 GMT -5
Did they make you sing the national anthem before you sit behind your desk? You certainly have a point. Because sports games inject the national anthem into their pre-game rituals, the players are granted the ability to display an appropriate or inappropriate response, depending on your point of view. That's fair. But here's my take on that. These players have been wildly successful due in large part to America. This country and its inherent opportunities have allowed them to become rich and famous, and now they kneel like petulant children when a song honoring the USA is played, all because of a manufactured lie about how racist everyone here is. In my opinion, if they are so offended by the anthem and this "terrible U.S. of KKKA", they can fuck off back to the Sudan and try their hand at being a wide receiver or a tight end on the Khartoum football team.
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Justince
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Post by Justince on Sept 30, 2017 14:21:59 GMT -5
Conform or get out. That's quite the option you've given them. Yes, they became successful here in America, and yes, being a football player does not supersede your rights as an American. These players are more visible than ever as role models and, in my opinion, pretty decent figures to look up to for many young Americans, particularly black Americans. At first I thought Kaepernick was just grabbing attention for being a mediocre player. That all changed when President Dipshit opened his big mouth and lumped all protesters under the term 'sons of bitches'...most of which happen to be black. Real Presidential, you fucking asshole. As they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So this is the most viable platform these players can protest, and as Americans, I'm glad they're doing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 15:03:13 GMT -5
I don't know if I agree with the "most viable platform" argument. These guys all have Facebook and Twitter fan pages, which are closely watched by the hungry media; they could spew their little tantrums there and have millions see it. Plus, as I proved in my first post in this thread, the protest itself is much ado about nothing. And as for professional sports athletes being "decent figures to look up to"...hahaha boy you really opened yourself up there, bro. These players are constantly getting in trouble for their bad behavior on and off the field. They are at best unsportsmanlike showboating assholes, and at worst dog-fighters, drug-users, rapists, and murderers. If these are the role models for young blacks in America, no wonder black culture is in the state it's in.
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Justince
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Post by Justince on Sept 30, 2017 15:45:07 GMT -5
And as for professional sports athletes being "decent figures to look up to"...hahaha boy you really opened yourself up there, bro. Okay, what's the alternative? I mean realistically...give me an alternative. Just as you stated, these players are practically the embodiment of the American dream...driven by commercialism and excess, sure but seriously, you're going into an inner-city school and touting how important we have more black physicists in the country? Really dude. It's also not really fair to cherry pick the worst of the bunch, that can apply to anything. Obviously there's bad eggs everywhere...sort of like the protesters who are angry about the few bad cops that clearly and recklessly shoot umarmed men.....HMM? Like I said, I'd agree with you up to the point the Idiot in Chief weighed in with his usual stupidity. He should not have taken such a divisive stance, just as Obama should not have personalized the Trayvon Martin shooting by saying his 'son' would look like Trayvon. It was stupid then, and it's doubly stupid now.
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TOS
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Post by TOS on Sept 30, 2017 18:59:56 GMT -5
"Most of which happen to be black" oh please, who fucking cares! Trump didn't mention race when he said "son of a bitch", you did.
Most of the people who kill black people also "happen to be black", but that's a different story because the enemy there isn't Trump or a white cop. Right?
Give me a goddamn break.
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Justince
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Post by Justince on Sept 30, 2017 22:36:49 GMT -5
Who cares? I'd say those entire football teams kneeling to the anthem care. See how dangerous words can be when the come from the highest office of power? It doesn't matter that Trump didn't mention race, it does matter the much more reactionary people than myself can infer his meaning when yes, as a matter of FACT, the protesters in question are black. This is why the great Orange Buffoon should have kept his mouth shut, just like when he essentially condoned the horrible treatment of counter-protesters at his pogroms..er I mean rallies. Yes we've all seen the statistics of black-on-black crime, that's when you get to say 'who cares'...sorry you can't seem to figure this out, but here's more at stake here than that and you know it, you're just being willfully ignorant because you think you've figured it all out. You think black people aren't aware of the crime in their own neighborhoods? No, only TraceofSpades could have cracked this case! Grab that megaphone and hit the nearest football field, you could end the whole thing right now! What are you waiting for? I'm sure they'd love to hear it and get back to playing the fucking game.
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Post by deathevokation on Oct 1, 2017 7:25:34 GMT -5
I think trace interpreted that line as a punchline in itself, rather than a stepping stone to further explain your stance.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 3, 2017 13:25:05 GMT -5
I had to watch a few more videos on this to gain some more perspective about what exactly this is. As far as I know this is an interpretation issue. A middle finger is just a middle finger until people realize the intent behind it is to say "fuck you." Then it means something.
The first problem is I'm not sure everyone who is taking a knee or turning their back on the flag is entirely in agreement with each other about what this action symbolizes or what they seek to achieve through this particular protest. They seem to agree on some key points that don't go much deeper than what spreading awareness would do anything to remedy. Ok Donald Trump is a cock. Ok there's discrimination. Ok there's inequality. These have been known problems for many years.
The other problem, which I feel is most important, is that there's a significant amount of value that Americans put in participating in the National Anthem at a sporting event. To join together and pledge allegiance to the flag during the national anthem says this: Yes, we are competing in a sport in which we are in direct conflict with each other, and we play rough and sometimes we get angry or hurt, but we are reminded that at the end of the day we are united as Americans. To not join with your fellow Americans in this is to suggest you reject that message. This is where the problem lies. Not only is this action rejecting a positive message, but the action itself is unclear about what the positive outcome is you're striving to achieve, which starts everyone off in a surely negative position, and then confusion leans further in the negative direction.
I feel that the majority of what Ben Shapiro said was unimportant, but I agree with his conclusion that entertainment has creeped its way into politics, and politics has creeped into entertainment, which has made both worse. When it comes to segregation, that's one argument I can get behind.
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