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Post by Bob Page on Sept 3, 2024 22:05:37 GMT -5
GOG, like Steam, will sometimes delist games from their library due to rights issues. This has happened with original Fallout games (they have since been reinstated), Unreal and Unreal Tournament, the Duke Nukem series, Bloodrayne, Raiden III and IV, Shadow Man, and Neverwinter Nights, to name a few. More information can be found here: delistedgames.com/all-delisted-gog-games/As expected, now that DOOM + DOOM II is out, Bethesda had GOG delist Ultimate DOOM, DOOM II + Master Levels, and Final DOOM, and they can no longer be purchased. If you had already purchased them, you retain access to your purchased games and can download them as you please. However, if you didn't, you cannot purchase them on GOG at all. The implications of this are obvious. Those original iwads changed the landscape of video games forever. DOOM was one of the first video games to break into mainstream popular culture. It was critically acclaimed, technically ground-breaking, wildly successful, and is still considered by many to be one of the best video games of all time. So the fact that now people are slowly losing access to the iwads in their original form is very troubling. This is, in some ways, similar to George Lucas denying access to the original Star Wars trilogy movies in their first versions. Whether or not you care for Star Wars, it's culturally significant, and thus the original films as they were (before Lucas changed the color grading and audio and added new dialogue, characters, and visual effects) should likely be made available in some fashion. Sure, people can go to eBay and buy physical copies for hundreds of dollars, or pirate the games somehow, but I still think it's sad that the original DOOM iwads are being phased out in favor of the new revised wads, even if some would argue that the changes aren't very significant.
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Post by TheFantasticFungiFan on Sept 3, 2024 22:39:14 GMT -5
I'm not a huge DOOM nerd and I've been out of touch with the game itself for some time now (including the new official version), what exactly are the differences with the revised iwads?
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Post by Bob Page on Sept 3, 2024 23:45:00 GMT -5
I'm not a huge DOOM nerd and I've been out of touch with the game itself for some time now (including the new official version), what exactly are the differences with the revised iwads? So the actual list of changes can be found here: doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_Classic_Unity_portThere are all sorts of changes, but some of the main ones include: 1. The pickup sprites for the stimpack, medikit, and berserk (STIMA0, MEDIA0, PSTRA0) are modified in compliance with the Red Cross' wish that its symbol not be used in games. Initially the pill graphics from previous Doom Classic versions were reused. This was later changed in the January 9, 2020 update to a green cross. 2. New to the port is the addition of creative credits that resemble the ending credit sequence of Doom (2016), where various levels and battles are shown briefly while the camera pans around and showing the names of Nerve Software key staff. Doom and Doom II each have their own sequences, and after the montage ends, the staff credits roll will begin. Both of these are pre-rendered videos as "credits nerve.mp4". 3. The NIN logo on E4M1: Hell Beneath has been removed, presumably to avoid trademark infringement. 4. The ZWOLF* texture with Nazi iconography (Hitler portraits, swastikas, Reichsadlers, etc.) have been censored. These were initially identical to the versions that appeared in BFG Edition, but have been edited in the January 9, 2020 patch to be closer to the original textures. The BFG Edition versions of textures which had Nazi detailing were the same as undetailed versions of those wall textures. As of the patch, they have instead been restored to the original versions and then edited, replacing swastikas with the triangle logo used in the German version of Wolfenstein: The New Order, while Hitler has lost his toothbrush mustache, making him resemble the Staatmeister from the Super Nintendo version of Wolfenstein 3D. The definitions in TEXTURE1 are identical; it is the patches that have been changed. 5. The Wolfenstein SS (which were effectively removed in BFG Edition) have been restored. As of the January 9 patch, the second half of their sight sound has been redubbed - they now say "schutzkämpfer" instead of "schutzstaffel", the first half still using John Romero's voice while the other half was re-recorded by Mike Rubits of id Software. Their death sounds are as normal.
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Post by gije on Sept 4, 2024 0:13:12 GMT -5
I'll never use an IWAD without the red crosses.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2024 0:29:27 GMT -5
Will there be anything advantageous about this new version? For example, would it be easier to modify? I really know nothing about this situation.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 504
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Sept 4, 2024 2:24:45 GMT -5
Will there be anything advantageous about this new version? For example, would it be easier to modify? I really know nothing about this situation. Nope, not really. The iwads are the same with some minor differences. The new port is adding id24 but that's just a few things on top of mbf21 so it doesn't really change anything for most of us. Plus a lot of source port devs don't appear to have much interest in adding support for it, but that could always change.
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Post by thundercunt on Sept 4, 2024 11:24:41 GMT -5
I'll never use an IWAD without the red crosses. This 100%
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Post by camper on Sept 4, 2024 12:44:43 GMT -5
There is always a shareware version, and there is also squashware from fragglet. It's too bad that you can't use them as a basis for loading mods. Many engines don't allow it.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,342
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Post by SilverMiner on Sept 4, 2024 12:50:54 GMT -5
Modify engines and they will let you do it
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Post by camper on Sept 4, 2024 13:23:50 GMT -5
The GZDoom opinion on this matter is very harsh.
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Post by gije on Sept 4, 2024 13:31:48 GMT -5
As long as they maintain the original WAD structure and lump formats, one could theoretically have a port that binary patches only relevant pixels in affected lumps automatically. Historical accuracy then becomes yet another bullet point official ports cannot match. I guess it's not impossible the Red Cross could get pissy about it and breathe down a port author's neck if it gains attention, though.
I guess the other bits get messier, esp the NIN logo.
Do modern Quake distributions nix the NIN logos on the nail boxes?
Edit: Re hotpatching IWAD feature: would be funny to see an arbitrary color option for the crosses kind of like alternate blood color swaps. Not a request, as it'd be useless for me, but just something that came to mind.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,069
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Post by joe-ilya on Sept 4, 2024 18:44:43 GMT -5
In Steam's DOOM + DOOM II there's a folder called 'base' with all the original IWADs, does GOG not have it?
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Post by Bob Page on Sept 4, 2024 21:21:22 GMT -5
In Steam's DOOM + DOOM II there's a folder called 'base' with all the original IWADs, does GOG not have it? Wow, really? I had no idea about this! I'm going to check on my end to verify if GOG has this. EDIT: I can't easily install the GOG .exe installer on Linux without jumping through a bunch of hoops, so I'll have to mess with it later.
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Post by gije on Sept 4, 2024 22:25:47 GMT -5
The installer should just work under stock wine. All the ones I've used under Debian Stable have, so far, at least.
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Post by dr_st on Sept 5, 2024 1:53:45 GMT -5
As expected, now that DOOM + DOOM II is out, Bethesda had GOG delist Ultimate DOOM, DOOM II + Master Levels, and Final DOOM, and they can no longer be purchased. If you had already purchased them, you retain access to your purchased games and can download them as you please. However, if you didn't, you cannot purchase them on GOG at all. As far as I understand GOG's system (I cannot verify it, having owned the legacy packages before), if you purchase the new bundle, you will be able to download the original installers. They are just not at the store front.
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Post by camper on Sept 5, 2024 2:30:37 GMT -5
Edit: Re hotpatching IWAD feature: would be funny to see an arbitrary color option for the crosses kind of like alternate blood color swaps. Just for reference. Actually, in the case of stalker, GSC took the design of a Soviet army first aid kit, and did not invent it from scratch.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 504
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Sept 5, 2024 3:37:21 GMT -5
In Steam's DOOM + DOOM II there's a folder called 'base' with all the original IWADs, does GOG not have it? Wow, really? I had no idea about this! I'm going to check on my end to verify if GOG has this. EDIT: I can't easily install the GOG .exe installer on Linux without jumping through a bunch of hoops, so I'll have to mess with it later. Maybe innoextract? I've used tools to extract from gog installers on win. That's what a quick search for Linux kicked up.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,342
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Post by SilverMiner on Sept 5, 2024 5:20:27 GMT -5
try winrar
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Post by dr_st on Sept 5, 2024 5:52:40 GMT -5
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Post by ketmar on Sept 5, 2024 18:29:48 GMT -5
There is always a shareware version, and there is also squashware from fragglet. It's too bad that you can't use them as a basis for loading mods. Many engines don't allow it. that was something requested by id, afair. like "we are giving you the sources, and please, don't allow mods with a shareware release".
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Post by Bob Page on Sept 5, 2024 18:39:16 GMT -5
In Steam's DOOM + DOOM II there's a folder called 'base' with all the original IWADs, does GOG not have it? I just downloaded and extracted the GOG release of DOOM + DOOM II. I can now confirm that the GOG version does NOT have a "base" folder with all the original iwads. Meaning that if you had not already purchased the original iwads from the 90's, you will not have access to them by purchasing the DOOM + DOOM II package. Joe, are you certain that the "base" folder present in your Steam installation actually contains the old iwads? Or are they simply the new ones with the changes? An easy way to confirm would be to check in SLADE3 for the Medikit graphics with the green cross on them.
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uhhhh
Doomer
occasionally plays and maps
Posts: 47
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Post by uhhhh on Sept 5, 2024 18:50:56 GMT -5
it is still red (I don't know how to post images)
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uhhhh
Doomer
occasionally plays and maps
Posts: 47
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Post by uhhhh on Sept 5, 2024 18:54:10 GMT -5
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uhhhh
Doomer
occasionally plays and maps
Posts: 47
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Post by uhhhh on Sept 5, 2024 19:16:32 GMT -5
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,069
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Post by joe-ilya on Sept 5, 2024 19:38:48 GMT -5
In Steam's DOOM + DOOM II there's a folder called 'base' with all the original IWADs, does GOG not have it? I just downloaded and extracted the GOG release of DOOM + DOOM II. I can now confirm that the GOG version does NOT have a "base" folder with all the original iwads. Meaning that if you had not already purchased the original iwads from the 90's, you will not have access to them by purchasing the DOOM + DOOM II package. Joe, are you certain that the "base" folder present in your Steam installation actually contains the old iwads? Or are they simply the new ones with the changes? An easy way to confirm would be to check in SLADE3 for the Medikit graphics with the green cross on them. I did check the wads before making my post, the DOOM + DOOM II package on Steam contains the original WADs in the base folder, and the re-released versions are contained in the rerelease folder.
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