joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,064
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Post by joe-ilya on Aug 13, 2024 19:05:23 GMT -5
Thank you. Joe you really need to shut the fuck up and take the criticism to heart for once. You've EARNED your reputation for being a complete cunt to work with and people have been fed up with your lazy bullshit for years. You don't get the cherry-pick the best looking room in your map and pretend that there aren't glaring, easily fixed, issues across your map. cittykat112 found many flaws with that room though I didn't ask for a review of the whole map, just this room, because I didn't want to bother anybody with making a full write up of the entire map, as it would be too much to ask for, and I could pick it up from there. These first five images are all examples of misaligned textures in the FIRST ROOM of your map. Just like how people have been complaining about how making a first impression with a good Map01 is important for a wad, a good opening room is equally as important for a map. You need an interesting opening scene that allows players to immerse themselves in the world we're trying to create. Instead of an image that would spark inspiration and intrigue we have amateur 1-hour speedmap nonsense opening up the wad. It's obvious there wasn't any effort put into this. Moving on to the rest of the map here are examples of more easily fixed misaligned textures. The thing is we know why these textures end up misaligned in your maps so often. It's because you simply shift+V your textures sloppily and never go through the effort to double or triple check the alignments. How do I know this? Because your walls with sky textures are caked in your wall textures. It's obvious there's a complete lack of care when you go through the texturing part of your maps. When I heard complaints about the textures, I thought it was about the texture selection, and didn't even think it was about misalignments, which is why I retextured some of the map for V2. Thanks for clearing that up, I was really confused. I always keep texture alignment for last, I forgot to do it as I was in a rush to submit this map, to catch some sleep before my flight. I saw this while I was looking for more misalignments. Why is this here? That is to prevent the brighter light from showing on the ceiling. It is not necessary anymore, as the armor flashes regardless of the sector's light levels, unlike the shotgun that I put there during testing. Here's an example of lazy lighting in the final room of the map. Why does the light cut off like that on the right? Why is the light from alter fires so much stronger but don't reach as far into the room? You realize there's a fucking function in Doombuilder that will automatically gradient the lights for you Joe? It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of effort. I even recorded a video for you in the span of time it took me to write this post.I wasn't concerned about realistic lighting in this map, and I like high contrast lighting. I personally don't agree with you on this point. Here's another example of your lazy decision making. Instead of just redrawing the wall sector that you ended up pinching, you just left it. Do you take any pride in your work dude? This is the kind of shit that drives my autism into total overdrive. It is unnoticeable in game. I did not see many of the things you both mentioned, it was a rush job I made in a few hours, and I can only blame myself for not noticing. Joe this is the thing that annoys me the most about your work and your inability to take any criticism to heart. You're fucking lazy and it's unacceptable for a person who's been doing this for as long as you have been to be making these kinds of mistakes. To not only make these mistakes but to release them and then act insulted when people call you out for your shitty work is frankly frustrating. I've only been mapping since late 2020 and I have been able to see the glaring flaws in your work for years. I won't say I'm perfect, but at least I put in the effort to get better. Grow the fuck up. Either get better or go away. I should've swallowed my pride when my map got shit on, and asked what was exactly wrong with my map first, instead of posting snide remarks. You're right. Joe's map is severely underdetailed, texturing is so bad even fixing misalignments and adding support textures won't fix it, gameplay is just boring run'n'gun with a shitty gimmick... It's just a bad map overall. I've tried letting the lighting do the work of detailing the map. How else is the texturing bad? There is nothing wrong with an easy run'n'gun map. The boat gimmick could've definitely been executed better, this is more of a rudimentary showcase that I should've shelved for another time, only when it would've been properly figured out. |
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Post by thelokk on Aug 13, 2024 19:14:00 GMT -5
joe-ilya alright, if this is the game you want to play, let's play it (especially if it gives us a slim chance to not turn 68 into a 67 style half-fiasco). I will, however, play it my way. Different screenshot.  You might recognize this - it's from a map of yours. And it's a cute scene from a good map. It has flow; it has boatloads of doomcute, in place of unfun gimmicks; it has a layout and gameplay loop worth calling as such; textures are not only mostly aligned, but appropriately picked and complementary to each other. You even use the deep water boundary effect you ditched for your DBP67 map in favor of the most inelegant solution possible. This is the sort of stuff I was hoping you would contribute, as your part in upkeeping the quality standard the DBPs slowly crawled back up to after a way-too-long lull. Instead, your first offering is a hasty, cobbled together gimmicky map that barely survives its welcome, if at all. At this point, I would like to know what the matter is - you clearly can make a map worth this name, you just don't want to. It can't be the time limit, people have made Cacoward-winning solo episodes in the same timespan. It is the rush to submit? don't see the point, there are no limited slots and leads are very lenient with near tardiness (too much in my opinion, but that's another story). All this, of course, leaves to the side your massive ego problems and generally displeasing attitude, but I can live with that. Fortunately, the DBPs are structured so that we can simply wave away your usual bag of dirty tricks. Personally, in any other situation you'd be the last person on earth I would want to map with. Bottom line is, and it's not something project leads should dismiss too quickly - I think we have all rights to voice anger, when there is textual proof that people are not giving our maps a chance, because of yours.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,064
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Post by joe-ilya on Aug 13, 2024 21:21:56 GMT -5
You even use the deep water boundary effect you ditched for your DBP67 map in favor of the most inelegant solution possible. How is the deep water effect making things clearer than a rope mid-texture? A rope is visible and contrasts with the water, while the deep water doesn't, unless I'm missing something. This is the sort of stuff I was hoping you would contribute, as your part in upkeeping the quality standard the DBPs slowly crawled back up to after a way-too-long lull. Instead, your first offering is a hasty, cobbled together gimmicky map that barely survives its welcome, if at all. At this point, I would like to know what the matter is - you clearly can make a map worth this name, you just don't want to. It can't be the time limit, people have made Cacoward-winning solo episodes in the same timespan. It is the rush to submit? don't see the point, there are no limited slots and leads are very lenient with near tardiness (too much in my opinion, but that's another story). I made this map whilst working for several months 6 days every week, 9 hours a day, at an understaffed and very busy place, doing all the grunt work. I didn't feel like working on anything when I got home, all I wanted to do is watch Youtube and play video games. My weekends didn't always coincide with my motivation either. One month into the project I scrapped my map in favor of something smaller and simpler, which meant I had 4 days where I might feel like mapping, and even then my mapping session per one day a week lasted only a couple hours. All this, of course, leaves to the side your massive ego problems and generally displeasing attitude, but I can live with that. Fortunately, the DBPs are structured so that we can simply wave away your usual bag of dirty tricks. Personally, in any other situation you'd be the last person on earth I would want to map with. You're not the first person to tell me this unfortunately. Bottom line is, and it's not something project leads should dismiss too quickly - I think we have all rights to voice anger, when there is textual proof that people are not giving our maps a chance, because of yours. I wouldn't be too worried about a couple 4chan and kiwiforums posts. |
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Post by serrateddirk on Aug 13, 2024 22:42:10 GMT -5
Joe do you ever run out of excuses? If you can't find motivation to create one map why make a commitment to a community project with a deadline? Why deflect criticism with "Well, I meant to do that!" as if that excuses poor gameplay choices, abysmal visuals and lackluster technique, or "I got a fulltime job!" as if the rest of the forum doesn't have that. Like, if you can't find it in yourself to meaningfully contribute to a group effort, make some solo projects! Or if you can't find it in yourself to map, do something else! You can always learn some dehacked or decorate, or playtest stuff, and maybe while playtesting you can find some inspiration to motivate you to map. Stop acting like a kid and own up to something
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Post by use3d on Aug 14, 2024 9:17:37 GMT -5
Using the DBP thread to shit on Joe isn't really helping anything. He's probably already feeling backed into a corner and isn't likely to respond in the way anyone would want. Constructive criticism is one thing but now it's another dog-pile. The map isn't even bad, just a little rushed. Besides I thought 40oz or someone gave all the maps a visual cleanup before release for minor shit like offsets? Is that so hard?
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,103
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Post by 40oz on Aug 14, 2024 9:32:26 GMT -5
Thank you use3d. I completely agree. Especially in this very moment where our community is being impeded by Bethesda/Zenimax/Microsoft, this is an obnoxious amount of heat for one person to take.
The project was in development for the past two months, so if you wanted criticize joe's mapping, that was the time to do it. But the character assassination that is being performed here towards joe as a person wouldn't be valid in the development thread either. You guys are being assholes to a fellow mapper and it needs to stop. If anyone needs to continue harassing joe here then I'll be sending them to dumbworld.
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Post by thelokk on Aug 14, 2024 9:44:47 GMT -5
Thank you use3d. I completely agree. Especially in this very moment where our community is being impeded by Bethesda/Zenimax/Microsoft, this is an obnoxious amount of heat for one person to take. The project was in development for the past two months, so if you wanted criticize joe's mapping, that was the time to do it. But the character assassination that is being performed here towards joe as a person wouldn't be valid in the development thread either. You guys are being assholes to a fellow mapper and it needs to stop. If anyone needs to continue harassing joe here then I'll be sending them to dumbworld. Fine, but I also don't intend waste precious mapping time by seeing my work jeopardized by others' lack of commitment. Keep your sacred cow of the week to heart 40oz, hope it treats you well. |
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Post by lutumlautus on Aug 14, 2024 10:00:58 GMT -5
40oz once again incapable of reading the room. Classic.
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MegaPancakeStrategist
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
IF YOU ARE READING THIS YOUR MAP NEEDS MORE LIGHTING VARIATION
Posts: 1,011
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Aug 14, 2024 10:03:27 GMT -5
I stop reading criticism of joe-ilya maps when they mention his PAST BEHAVIOR |
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Post by use3d on Aug 14, 2024 10:08:34 GMT -5
Fine, but I also don't intend waste precious mapping time by seeing my work jeopardized by others' lack of commitment. Keep your sacred cow of the week to heart 40oz , hope it treats you well. Not buying it thelokk. You need to give yourself a little more credit. Even your biggest critic can play any one of your maps and see you have a very strong sense of design and artistic vision. No amount of Joe's sloppy texturing is going to diminish or jeopardize that! Joe is opening for another DBP? Here's the best solution: -warp 02 |
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 6,103
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Post by 40oz on Aug 14, 2024 10:23:43 GMT -5
It reads to me both implicitly and explicitly, that the large issue you guys are having with Marble Hill is having to play Ail first. Joe didn't pick his mapslot, he didn't admit himself into the project by compiling his map into it, and he adopted the feedback about his map that he received into later versions of his map.
I'd be perplexed to see this amount of venom directed at someone like matador despite ultimately being responsible for the grand issue here. The precedent set by hundreds of people in the past treating joe like shit and getting away with it does not hold up on my platform. I don't care what the person's name is, this is not how you talk to fellow mappers.
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Post by BearInThaWoods on Aug 14, 2024 10:49:47 GMT -5
Way to conveniently ignore and sidestep the issue of Joe's proven history of low effort mapping.
That was the entirty of my post. It being in the first slot ia understandable because I assume Matador wanted to get the bad out of the way early.
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s4f3s3x
I'm too young to die
If you play Doom at more than 640x400 you're not a true friend
Posts: 4
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Post by s4f3s3x on Aug 25, 2024 11:12:54 GMT -5
I've reached MAP07 of this new DBP release and it's so good! I love the theme, the sounds, the colours... wholesome vibe overall. Thank you for keeping the Doom world as exciting and creative as it is. Also, it seems we're finally past the monochromatic, "filtered" DBP era of yesteryear and back to vibrant tones and rich colors.
I don't really understand all the fuss in this thread tbh... I loved MAP01 when I first booted up the game. Played it a couple of times already while I was switching between source ports back and forth. I didn't know it was a Joe map, but then again... I don't even know who Joe is - apart from a name that I've encountered often in others DBPs? So... I guess what I want to say it's that maybe people are getting too much caught up in history and shit?
It's a really nice map for a casual that doesn't know shit and just starts another juicy DBP.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,064
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Post by joe-ilya on Aug 25, 2024 12:43:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words!
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,339
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Post by SilverMiner on Aug 25, 2024 13:54:28 GMT -5
I stop reading criticism of joe-ilya maps when they mention his PAST BEHAVIOR comparing now joe to past joe should be more rational than comparing now joe to god or something? |
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,064
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Post by joe-ilya on Aug 25, 2024 14:14:07 GMT -5
I stop reading criticism of joe-ilya maps when they mention his PAST BEHAVIOR comparing now joe to past joe should be more rational than comparing now joe to god or something? I don't get it |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2024 21:10:13 GMT -5
Woah cool doom drama over a cool map, this forum isn't any different, last night it occurred to me all this mapping shit isn't any different than when I was like 14 building my own skatepark in one of the tonyhawk games, anyways, maps are great, enemy placement makes me wanna rage quit, good stuff
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,190 
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Post by matador on Aug 29, 2024 8:56:16 GMT -5
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,339
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Post by SilverMiner on Sept 27, 2024 16:44:58 GMT -5
BearInThaWoodsEndoomer asked me to tell you that he played your map in dbp67
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Post by BearInThaWoods on Sept 29, 2024 22:37:39 GMT -5
BearInThaWoods Endoomer asked me to tell you that he played your map in dbp67 Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't noticed the video. I'll check it out now =) |
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,064
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 6, 2024 7:02:33 GMT -5
RC3 FDAs for MAP02 04 05 09 11 (maps I haven't played yet) : dbp67_02-11joeFDA.zip (190.64 KB) MAP02 @unicorn Some armor bonuses at the start would've been nice to deal with the deadly hitscanners in close quarters. The archvile cage has a big HOM to the left. The gray cement stock Doom textures clash a bit too much with the theme. MAP04 SilverMiner Weapons could've been communicated more clearly, I ran past the whole level thinking a weapon was ahead, because all I had was a shotgun and chaingun to deal with mid-tier enemies, and only when I looked back and had all the keys and the exit was up for grabs, that's when I saw the proper weapons, so the entire map for me was just running past enemies and doing clean up at the end. Looking back, the weapons seem like they're in obvious enough spots, so it's my bad, still, I think you could improve visibility by putting the weapons in bright sectors to make them stand out better, because the brown SSG camouflaged itself in the brown backdrop too well, and the hell knight discouraged me from getting the rocket launcher around the corner that I didn't notice. I appreciate the duplicate SSG and RL, but I was too busy running past enemies to bother exploring at that point. Not a bad map, I can see myself enjoying it more on replay. MAP05 RastaManGames R.I.P Busya The realistic building plan areas were cramped and kind of uneventful, and the small jagged cave tunnels are slightly annoying to traverse. But the rest was solid, good reuse of space. The sewer section was surprisingly fun. MAP09 ShiroiAkuma This one was dropping frames relatively frequently, because of the absurd amount of mid-textures all over the open fields, it also made far away enemies impossible to see; making hitscanners annoying to deal with. There is too much floor detail too, making for an overly bumpy map that can give motion sickness, and takes away some of the control. The out of bounds cacos are flying too far away from reach when they get shot, there should've been some closer monster blocking lines to prevent that hassle. Indoor areas are too cramped and detailed, making movement awkward. There are some irritating turrets, such as the revenants in the cave, and the arch-viles in the finale can move too much atop their tall turret ledges, and by the time the limited ammo of rockets or plasma travel they already dodge them, and in most situations I don't have good positions to snipe them with hitscan weapons. MAP11 corvus262 Amazing work! Plays great all the way, and has stunning visuals, what an adventure. The triple secret chain has a bleeding mid-texture, and there's a missing texture in the void section pictured below.  |
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,064
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 7, 2024 11:06:18 GMT -5
FDAs for MAP14-17 : dbp67_14-17joeFDA.zip (161.24 KB) MAP14 matador Another hectic matador map. Despite the 1994 premise of Circle of Death, the AV in the center, and the caco trap made it feel fresh. In front of the plasma gun secret there's a forest mid-tex floating in the air. The double AV trap is quite unintuitive with the weapons I'm given; the SSG is too slow, and there isn't enough space to shoot rockets, so the best strategy seems to run into the curvy bookshelf hall, and bottleneck all the enemies at the opening to spam rockets. I did not cross the platforms to the red key in time, so the caco trap didn't trigger even after I got the key from the other side. The trap should be triggered from both sides, and the exit room could have a couple arachnotrons or mancs to prevent skiping the fight. Nice reference to Cuppy's trigger line from DBP11 at the rocket launcher. MAP15 thelokk I like the prominent use of beige. The encounters have a lot of urgency and weight to them, as there's AVs that spawn in previous areas, and there isn't a lot of health. It's all done very well. The pile of shotgunners made for a cute shell resupply when they got resurrected, I wasn't even mad. I am curious about the conspicuous blood pool in the north-west corner of the map, I felt like it hid a secret, but even after finding every secret, none of them had anything to do with it. It added some mystery to the map, I like that. MAP16 kvsari I've always admired your titan scaled maps. I'd like to make something in your style someday. It's possible to jump out of bounds, I saw some skybox cutoffs in there and passed through mid-textures of the forest. Thankfully it doesn't softlock. MAP17 CittyKat112 killerratteVery pretty, plays well, but it's a little easy to get lost due to the size, and some of the doors not being very clear, even after noticing them before. The bright color key markers didn't help, because they don't stand out when there's already many bright lights using the same colors as the keys, so to make the doors more clearly distinguishable, I recommend brightening up the doors themselves too. I must've walked around the whole map 5 times before I realized where the purple and yellow keys can be used. The ending could've used an invuln and less megaspheres to give the fight some urgency. There's floating torches all over the perimeter here when the trap triggers :  One more floating torch here, don't know when it starts to float up like this :  Got softlocked here :  MAP20 matador There's an odd letter on the backside of the DBP68 announcement. |
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