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Post by Tangra on Mar 7, 2024 18:37:00 GMT -5
I'm working on my little project, and so far i have 5 maps ready for what will be a 8-9 map episode. I'd wish i could keep all of them behind the curtain until the whole thing is ready, but i'm getting seriously burnt out from playtesting, which is the part i hate the most about mapping, and will most likely force me to quit one day. The other part is my ignorance on working with Slade, and me trying to compile even a single map always ends up in a dumpster fire. So, in case you're wondering why i have all cc4 textures in the wad, it's because i can't remove the unused ones without breaking the whole thing. I removed the textures, then the patches, then, when i try to remove the flats, Slade crashes, so fuck it, i'll deal with it later when i'm ready to compile the episode. Hopefully i'll learn how to use the damn thing by then. About the map, it kinda lives up to its name. It's meant to be chaotic and force the player to move, if you stay in one place and wait for the monsters to come to you, you will run out of ammo, health and everything else. So as long as you explore a lot, the map is generous, and if you get the secrets, then it's a walk in the park. Name: Chaos Factory Format: Doom/Doom 2 IWAD: Doom 2 Gameplay: Single Player Tested in: DSDA-Doom (very little). Needs testing in Crispy Doom Difficulty Levels: Yes Textures: CC4 Texture Pack Crouch and Jump: Disabled LINK: www.mediafire.com/file/ncsyzi0c6w7td9y/ChaosFactory.wad/filePics: imgur.com/a/t66efzn
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Resident DB English Teacher
Posts: 1,226
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Post by Gokuma on Mar 8, 2024 6:33:55 GMT -5
I don't know why Slade is crashing on removing flats. But I've found trying to remove patches from pnames screws up textures.
So when I want a version with only so many textures. I copy the texture1 and pnames from normal Doom 2 to my wad. Open the texture1 of that wad and the texture wad. And copy just the textures I want. I've remade wads like that to get rid of textures, copying just the ones I want from the old version to the new.
Cool looking map!
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Post by Tangra on Mar 8, 2024 7:14:19 GMT -5
Gokuma thanks for the reply. I was afraid the only solution would be to add the needed textures by hand, but there's something i'm strugling to understand about the process. I know how to do it, you copy and paste only the textures you want and first add them to the patch table, after that, you add them to texturex, while the flats are only being copied straight. I know about the P_Start/End and F_Start/End definitions and all that stuff. My problem is, what happens when i have roughly 50-100 CC4 textures in my map. How do i know what i need to add then? It will only get more overwhelming when i have multiple maps with hundreds of textures that need compiling. Do i have to make a list of what i'm using while making the map, or is there an easy way to view them and add them, without having to copy/paste them one by one? Sorry for the many questions, but i wasn't lying when i said i'm comletely ignorant about that stuff. I've looked for tutorials on youtube, but ones i've found just show you the method, they don't tell you what to do when you have a million textures to compile.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 504
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Mar 8, 2024 8:43:07 GMT -5
they don't tell you what to do when you have a million textures to compile. I believe the answer is to suffer. I think there was a setting in UDB that cuts all unused textures from a map if they're in the same wad as the map, or something along those lines. If my memory isn't completely borked and that function does exist you could theoretically do this with each map separately before merging them and adding them to the patchtable and texturex afterward. I do recall it cutting all but the first texture from switches and animations unfortunately so I had to track down the missing textures and add them manually. Keep in mind this is something I vaguely remember doing once a few years back and that I may or may not have any idea what I'm talking about. There are likely others kicking around here that have a better answer and actual experience.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Resident DB English Teacher
Posts: 1,226
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Post by Gokuma on Mar 8, 2024 9:07:57 GMT -5
I usually don't bother with adding textures to pnames first unless for some odd reason the texture name is to be different from the pname, which I've done.
For adding graphics already in a wad as textures, I just usually right click and add to textureX and it automatically adds them to pnames in between.
To copy textures from another wad, with texture1 opened up in both. I shift or ctrl + click to selectable multiple at a time. Copy. Then paste in the other texture1. It will automatically copy the graphic entries from one wad to the other and add them as pnames.
If you have a lot of textures to copy and need to a list of which. Open the map in Doom Builder with the textures missing. Do map analysis and make some screenshots of the lists of missing textures you need. It's at least an idea. Instead of screenshots I've just typed them in a txt file quick, but of course I missed some and had to go back and copy more.
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Post by Tangra on Mar 8, 2024 14:21:57 GMT -5
That is very useful information, thank you both. This is great actually, now at least i understand what i need to do. In any case, it looks like i will have to put in some work when it's time to compile the episode. I guess i can always just dump the whole texture pack in it and call it done deal, but i rather have a good, clean release. On the other hand, for individual map releases, i don't mind doing it the lazy way. This one in particular is just for playtesting purposes, so no big deal.
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Mar 10, 2024 14:21:28 GMT -5
SLADE has this function. Open your wad and go to Archive -> Maintenance -> Remove unused textures/patches/flats. I believe it checks against any maps currently in the wad and then deletes anything not used.
I don't recommend actually using this feature because it will delete EVERYTHING not being used, including stuff like the off states for switches, frames from animated textures, etc. So be very careful. I guess in your case you could make a duplicate of your wad, strip all the unused textures, and then copy stuff over to a new resource wad then add back in all the switches/animated textures or something like that.
Honestly, its easiest just to build a base texture wad before starting mapping, then you can always add to it whenever you find you need something new. Using a pre-made texture pack is easier at the start but you either deal with the bloat or spend time at the end trying to clean up the unused textures which is a pain.
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Post by Tangra on Mar 10, 2024 19:12:03 GMT -5
SLADE has this function. Open your wad and go to Archive -> Maintenance -> Remove unused textures/patches/flats. I believe it checks against any maps currently in the wad and then deletes anything not used. I don't recommend actually using this feature because it will delete EVERYTHING not being used, including stuff like the off states for switches, frames from animated textures, etc. Yup, that is exactly what i was using, or more like, attempting to use up until now, but never with any success. Deleting animated textures wouldn't have been a big problem, because i could've just used all textures in dummy sectors, so that Slade doesn't delete them. The real problem with using the maintenance option is that it always breaks something else and makes the maps unplayable in anything other than GZDoom, or in this case, not even letting me delete the unused flats and crashing instead. Your solution is good and i will follow it in the future, but for this episode i'm a bit late, i've already made some maps and i used a lot of textures, so i think i'll have to load the maps without the resource pack, to check all the missing stuff, and then copy it somewhere in a list, like Gokuma suggested. It will cost some time and tears, but eventually i should be able to package the whole thing properly.
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RastaManGames
Doomer
The taste of injustice is painfully disgusting. It tastes bitter and rotten.
Posts: 186
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Post by RastaManGames on Mar 11, 2024 1:38:11 GMT -5
As for me - "Doom Tools" is a good software that can help you with dividing only used FLATs and TEXTUREs from entire pack. It is even works with stuff like SWITCHES and ANIMATED. Only downside of this app that it can't work properly with UDMF maps, but... With it people have their handy folder-like structure, so they don't need to play around a tall papyrus, like we do.
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Post by Tangra on Mar 11, 2024 5:04:31 GMT -5
As for me - "Doom Tools" is a good software that can help you with dividing only used FLATs and TEXTUREs from entire pack. It is even works with stuff like SWITCHES and ANIMATED. I think i came across this or a similar program before, when i was looking for easier ways to compile wads, and it might just be what i need, but i couldn't find a single tutorial, not even a written one, on how to operate this thing. And i need a tutorial, because i'm bad at figuring this stuff on my own. I tried to work with it once, got frustrated at how unclear everything is, and never touched it again. So please, if you know of any guides on how to use Doom Tools for compiling textures, let me know.
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Post by Tangra on Mar 12, 2024 17:26:05 GMT -5
RastaManGames thanks again, i've updated the map, and it is properly compiled now. Doom Tools is the place to be.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
Posts: 504
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Mar 12, 2024 22:00:52 GMT -5
What AskYourDrAboutUVFast posted about was what I was remembering, I'm pretty sure. Will have to take a look at doom tools myself.
As for the actual map, I enjoyed it. The weakest spots for me were the beginning and end. The beginning because the layouts of the initial outdoor area felt a bit awkward/clunky to play in at times. It had a bit of the "you have to know the map to play the map" feel in the very beginning, particularly when dropping down at first. That went away quick though and the start would be the best time for that so no biggie there. For the last fight I cleared up all the revs before triggering the caco swarm. I'm sure it would play out differently otherwise but I ended up with pretty much no infighting and peekaboo killed the mastermind. Sort of underwhelming. I don't recall the mancs getting very many, if any shots off. If you want to make them more of a threat you could stretch their sectors out a bit which should let them get off some more shots. It's very possible you have them in the small sectors to nerf them though and my rng just kept them from shooting. I enjoyed everything in between. Really good interconnectivity. Progression was fairly clear. Secrets were hidden well but not too hard to figure out. Some good traps. Tons of health so nothing was too punishing. You could probably scale the health back a little bit honestly. Ammo balance felt pretty good though. Overall good stuff. Looking forward to the rest of the episode.
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Post by Tangra on Mar 13, 2024 4:12:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback and tips, they're always welcome. I guess the beginning can be a bit confusing at first, but that is solely to add some variety in the layout, because i have some more straight forward linear maps that will precede this one. I'm trying to adapt more complex layouts, because i'm very influenced by linear games like Half-Life and Serious Sam, and some of my previous maps suffer severely from that.
I really thought i gave the mancubi enough space to be effective, but you never know with these fatties, i will revisit and resize the platforms when i begin the full episode testing. In the last fight, I'm okay with clearing the first revenant ambush without triggering the caco and second revenant wave... i did that on purpose, to give choices to the player - do you clear the revenants first with rockers and ssg, or do you grab the plasma and trigger both encounters at once. Also, on a blind run most players will probably trigger both encounters, so i think it's a good enough surprise. I'm also not very happy with the mastermind. My idea there was to use him to make the fight more than just "circle strafe until you kill everything", and instead to force the player to stay mostly on one side and use the cacos as a shield from the spider hitscan. I think i'll end up replacing the spider with a cyberdemon, i think that should play better.
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StodgyAyatollah
Doomer
I'm not here. You're just imagining things.
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Post by StodgyAyatollah on Mar 13, 2024 5:14:01 GMT -5
I'm also not very happy with the mastermind. My idea there was to use him to make the fight more than just "circle strafe until you kill everything", and instead to force the player to stay mostly on one side and use the cacos as a shield from the spider hitscan. It does prevent straight up circling well but it's easy for it to take very little damage which leads to the peakabooing. Cyber would probably be more engaging. Splash damage may be pretty nasty there though. You could also consider something like a couple arachnatrons. Would have similar effect but lower health pool for cleaning up at the end. The mancs could have been somewhat RNG for me like I said. I would see if anyone else brings it up before considering messing with it.
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RastaManGames
Doomer
The taste of injustice is painfully disgusting. It tastes bitter and rotten.
Posts: 186
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Post by RastaManGames on Mar 13, 2024 6:32:59 GMT -5
This map has some kind of "infested industrial plant" vibes. Ammo & health were in good count across the entire map. As for fights - I got my ass ripped in the room full of Cacos and Revs. By the end of the day, this is solid map with not so easy fights and good detailing. P.S.: That blue armor secret is really obscure for me, since I dunno, how to get it.
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