Gokuma
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Post by Gokuma on Feb 1, 2024 18:32:00 GMT -5
February 2nd is Imbolc, Oimelc (Ewe's milk), La Fheile Bride, Feastday of Brigid (goddess), Gwyl Mair Dechbraur Gwanwyn, Laal Breeshey, or Goel Kantolyon depending on what Celtic region.
February 14th is Landsagen or Disting or Blessing of the Plow, a Germanic/Teutonic/Nordic holiday.
I get a freaking Ireland Calendar for a gift and it has no cultural Irish holidays. It has St Patrick's who was actually murderous British having had Pagan women thrown into the sea, and all the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic stuff, but no real Irish days. And Feastday of Brigid is certainly familiar to some Irish Christians since St. Brigid (maybe with varied spelling) was made up to replace the goddess and it's still not on a supposedly Irish calendar. National Geographic are some real assholes.
Get a Pagan calendar and it's probably Wiccan shoehorning the Greco-Roman pantheon into Celtic Imbolc even though Feastday of Brigid specifically names the goddess it venerates. They sometimes like to claim the Irish stuff came from the Greeks. They like do the same thing with Nordic stuff, claiming Thor is a variation of Hercules which is total bullshit. Only some ancient Irish Celts came from Greece and I'd like to see any detailed explanation of how Greece is supposed to be the fountainhead of Celtic Irish culture. Some came from Spain too and ancient Celts traveled across the continent. In 400's-200's BCE, the Ancient Celtic La Téne culture was present in Transylvania. In 387 BCE: Rome was sacked by the Celtic Gauls led by Brennus.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by Gokuma on Feb 2, 2024 14:27:36 GMT -5
Well Groundhog day is apparently based in Imbolc. An Ireland calendar should still have one of the native names for it. This is from the book, A Druid's Herbal Of Sacred Tree Medicine, by Ellen Evert Hopman and it goes really in-depth with the original cultural details and legends. Another authentic Celtic writer is Ly De Angeles. Yes, I realize both their last names don't seem very Celtic. I can't really name any other authentic authors. Some others are at least interesting though not to be given as much credibility as I've spotted crap that's flat out wrong or just made up out of the finest grade A bullshit. I suppose since we have such a proportion of Slavs here, I should come up with some of that stuff, though even though I'm part Slavic myself I have much less knowledge and books in that area. So anyway, don't go molesting any serpents today.
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dn
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Post by dn on Feb 3, 2024 2:06:33 GMT -5
there are like two species of snake in Scotland, neither of which are notable for slithering nor precognition. People who call themselves druids are universally retarded.
Snake #1 is the grass snake, which is about three inches long and is possibly the most boring reptile in the history of the universe. Snake #2 is the Adder, which can't count, and is legendary for biting people in the (content removed). It hangs out in the heather near roads, waiting for unwary kilted Highland men to pull their cars over and go for a pish in the bushes, whereupon the snake will use its infrared vision to seek and destroy the Scotsman's (content removed) like a heat-seeking snakey missile.
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dn
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Post by dn on Feb 3, 2024 2:24:24 GMT -5
Oh, and Ly De Angeles is absolutely a made up name. Translation one would be Lyde (lady) of the Angels. Translation two would be Ly de (lies of) the Anglos (English). Pretty funny, but always remember there is a Scottish industrial complex that revolves around selling bullshit to gullible Americans.
Also, that translation of the Gaelic is pretty suspect... if such a poem does exist in the oral tradition (press X to doubt), then the fact that it's talking about virgin brides and suspiciously (content removed)-like snakes ought to give the game away.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by Gokuma on Feb 3, 2024 8:42:51 GMT -5
Man, do you have to be black-pilled on everything? Pseudonyms are sometimes a good idea. I do have a couple books from the 1800's. I mean physically made in the 1800's, not just written then. But yeah skepticism and assessing everything critically are rather important due to said bullshit. But there is a good amount of old culture to be found. Now if you really want a headache, read some Douglas Monroe, certainly for entertainment purposes only, and that's not even getting into Wicca followed by food court druids (name referring to days past when people hung out at shopping malls), which oddly took the Scottish name for its hodgepodge of marketable stuff.
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dn
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Post by dn on Feb 3, 2024 15:44:34 GMT -5
Hardly black-pilled. But if you're gonna go waltzing through the 18th and 19th centaury teuchter scene, then it helps to be aware that all teuchters are liars.
The closest modern version of this phenomenon I can think of is the failed Irish literature revolution at the start of the 20th centaury: Irish ex-pats & IRA wannabes were really agitating against the British state, and the university tweed-types needed to get in on that action. They noted that Ireland had no history, no legends to speak of - there was no Irish Iliad, no Beowulf, because Gaelic never got written down. There is a bunch of shit about Cullach / Cú Chulainn, but those are mostly redressed legends from abroad (we wuz Hercules, &c) and are fairly obviously so. England has the same problem (Arthurian legend is French - thank Willie the Conqueror for that). And so does Scotland.
Basically, legends got lost as the languages were replaced, and we got colonized by a people in the process of being colonized. We still have *no* idea about what the original Picts thought about things (Gaelic is Irish, not Scots - it was restricted to the west coast, and the idea that it's somehow the True & Original Scots language is exactly the sort of lies I'm on about here). Anyway, a bunch of Irish nerds decided to get together and form a literary movement to address this lack of legend - they would "miraculously" discover ancient super-secret Irish texts and translate them for general dissemination.
Turns out that the Ancient Irish hated the English, coincidently. And so fake history turned into propaganda in the space of about a year and a half.
Anyway, that whole shitshow eventually turned into modernism, because the intellectuals rebelled against what was a fundamentally dishonest way of doing things (it's no coincidence that James Joyce went on to write Ulysses, which is at least a more honestly come-by Irish version of the Iliad), and it wouldn't be until Tolkien finally pulled his finger out that the entire genre of fake reinvented legends & folklore would become anything other than semi-inspired claptrap.
The Scots *had* played with certain similar ideas before: Walter Scott's romances, but again, those are mostly retellings of French bumfuckery moved into a Highland setting, and Walter Scott was the most English Scotsman who ever lived. Away from the intellectual / university scene you have gypsies and teuchters, who claim that their songs and stories have been passed down through 160 generations, but in reality came mostly out of the glasgow gin-houses last thursday.
So, if all that shit is made up, what else do we have? Burns did not write Auld Lang Syne - his contribution was actually writing old laland shit down for the first time ever, his importance is as much as an archivist as it is a poet. Some of the stuff he collated is definitely 15th centaury, but that's still not the deep history these Gaelic dipshits claim to. As for your example, of how Scottish folklore about snakes was passed down through 160 generations until it hit the Americas and somehow became about groundhogs is definitely bullshit. There are ZERO stories in Scotland about snakes, we never see the little fuckers unless they are biting unspecified cocks in some unspecified heather field to some unspecified uncle who is mostly found in a Glasgow gin-house. You *might* come across an animal fable featuring a snake (I, personally, have not), but it's unlikely, as all those were written by bored monks a hundred years before Burns, who sensibly kept very very far away from anything even remotely resembling heresy, and fucking snakes and fucking apple trees are very much included in the You'll Burn For This McTavish school of biblical literature. You see a snake anywhere from this time period, it's the fucking Devil, no exceptions.
So, where the fuck have the snakes come from, because they ain't Scottish? Viking stories sound likely - Ragnar getting thrown into a pit of snakes comes to mind, but that sounds like a Christian addendum to the fucking Ragnar story as well. And *that* definitely can happen - I've come across a 15th centaury Scots version of the LOL LMAO scorpion + toad story written by a bored monk, and that is fairly fucking weird, because Scotland doesn't have fucking scorpions either, but blah blah the moral of the story is Jesus loves you and fuck scorpions.
Christ I'm rambling now... but yeah. Your gaelic snake poem is written in modern gaelic with modern punctuation. I'd be willing to bet it's written in Irish Gaelic rather than Scots, and the fact that there are snakes in it (see: St. Paddy) suggests to me it would be from the 20th centaury Irish School of Bullshit. There are no druids in Scotland because we never had any: religion and bullshit come from the desert - thinking about the mysteries of the cosmos means not freezing to death in the pishing rain and getting eaten alive by midges, which is a more Scottish thing. And religion and bullshit also come from the universities, which is pretty much the same deal, only fatter.
All of the above said, there is nothing wrong with reading all of the mad made-up history shit you can get your hands on Looked at through the correct lens, they are a fascinating snapshot of post-colonial orphaned societies trying to deal with the fact nobody knows fucking nothing.
England included. England especially.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by Gokuma on Feb 4, 2024 9:05:28 GMT -5
*DOES AN ANCIENT CELTIC WARP SPASM!!*
CENSORED
(Bet ya'all would like to see that!)
You're much more well read than me but I still think you're missing something. The desert people are the worst about claiming to be fountainheads of everything. The picture I posted was just a little bit of the more modern stuff. Before that it has a bunch of the Christianized St. Brigid stuff and the Pagan Brigid stuff and simply presents it all. I know they like to refer to Druids as snakes a lot with the stupid saying of Patrick driving out the snakes. So I guess what it really means is, "I will not molest the druid, nor will the druid molest me." Because druids aren't like some priests, unionized school teachers, mohels, and recent NY tunnel dwellers. Oh and I heard from a Kenyan that some clerics of the religion of peace do the same damn thing.
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Lobo
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Post by Lobo on Feb 6, 2024 2:33:05 GMT -5
Disagree with dn. Sounds like scottish sour grapes to me 😉
For example both the "Lebor Gabála Érenn" and "Táin Bó Cúailnge" are from at least the 12 century, so a bit hard to blame on 20th century Irish literary shennanigans. Though I admit there are legends which do seem to be exactly what dn describes. Guess it depends on what myths we're talking about.
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dn
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Post by dn on Feb 6, 2024 16:27:28 GMT -5
Not sure about the second text, but the first is an early version of the bible with the Jews Irish centrestage.
I'd say it's notable for a couple of reasons: first, it's an attempt to reconcile Irish folklore with the biblical stuff imported from overseas. Second, what the fuck is the Gogmagog / Magog conundrum doing in there, that's proper pre-Roman shit, that's Giants rising from the Bones of the Earth and Fucking the Anglos up stuff. Third, it's the products of feking monks, again. Forth, it's definitely heresy, and pre-Lutheran heresy at that, which means fuck knows what pre-catholic christian religion in Ireland looked like, that shit's actually super interesting.
Not sure why the grapes look sour to you, tho. It's an example of what I described: those involved in the aborted Irish Nationalism movement took manuscripts like that and recognised that the biblical stuff was a later addition, a layer of Christian sediment that's collected over (probably pre-Gael whateverthefucktheWelshwere) legend. So, rather than present the material sans Abraham, they just made shit up to fill in the blanks.
"No explanation for this. Fuck it, let's just say druids did it."
That's fiction masquerading as scholarship, and you don't get away with that, even if the primary source you butchered is twelve centauries old.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by Gokuma on Feb 6, 2024 17:21:23 GMT -5
There has been indeed boatloads of fuckery. Now if you want some really academic scholarly attempt to dissect stuff without pulling stuff outta a big ol' interdimensional ass with bullshit conclusions, check this out:
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