You banned in doomworld?

Appreciate it. The tldr though is that everything is political now and it sucks. If you're not familiar with critical theory this is a good place to start.
plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

which might be ok if done with enough self-irony. tbh, the starting post of that project looks great: it is so over the top that it is hard to believe that is is done with a… ahem… straight face. the problem is not with the project per se, the problem is that DW mods take it dead serious. as if 40oz will start ban people for being not fully supportive of DBP, for example.

tl;dr: the project itself is ok. DW mods attitude is not.


but WHY this is the problem? since when voicing your opinion became a no-no? i can tell "this abomination should not exist" about any slaughter project, for example, because i HAET slaughtermaps with a passion. and i believe that it is totally ok if i'm not doing it in the project thread itself. (and no, "Going Down!" is not a slaughter! ;-)

that is, i will definitely ask moderators to delete posts like "k8vavoom is crap and should not exist" from k8vavoom thread (and revoke the posters option to write into that one thread if possible). but if somebody want to create their own thread to talk about, for example, sourceports and write that k8vavoom is a shit… so be it. i may start arguing if i feel it, but i don't think that only k8vavoom devs should have an opinion on k8vavoom. ;-)


i'll prolly do it anyway, but of course i'll ask them to explain WHY is sucks. there may be something i totally missed. still, the final decision is mine, not theirs.

Rough night doing other people's work so wish I could keep this brief since it's such a tiring subject, I'm sure you'll agree with that. First thing.


100% agreement here. This is a reality. Two things can be true at the same time though.

So now everyone's favorite buzzword. Critical theory. If you know about it than you know it has roots in the work of Marx. An extreme oversimplification is that others have expanded on his work, focusing on power dynamics between groups and world views beyond what Marx had done. Effectively branching out to cover things like race and gender. These theories have been a staple in US colleges for quite some time. So go beyond theory and you have praxis. Students going into the real world to pursue the goals of these theories, which consist of desired outcomes well beyond just acceptance and getting along. They have a little Marxism at their core after all. So, basic pursuit of an ideological goal. Nothing too new here except you do end up with things like queer theory. www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100358573

So essentially we now have these political theories dispersed throughout our information economy due to the memetic nature of things today. Gender studies also having some ties to critical theory means that a lot of people will find these ideologies intertwined in various ways and to varying degrees with the most prevalent information available when trying to understand things, which in turn shapes culture. This is why critical theory terminology such as "ally" is sort of ubiquitous at this point.

So why the pushback if it's not about people's orientation? Simply because it's divisive in nature. A lot of people prefer that we judge each other as individuals not groups, which is sort of baked into the whole world view. Often people find themselves to be treated as part of a group, not as the individual they are, picking up on patterns of behavior but not fully understanding them. Very common in today's society since the left has generally maintained social dominance in a lot of spaces for a while now. The right tends to be more individualist and is more aware of flaws on the left while overlooking their own and likewise for the left. I could get into how I believe conflicting views like this are an evolutionary necessity but already long winded as it is without getting into evolutionary biology. This is why the division is manifesting in the way we are seeing though and why "it divides people" is a common critique. It's antithetical to the 'content of character, not color of skin' ideal many strive for; myself included. In short a lot of criticism is directed at an ideology that has an association with a group because of the nature of the ideology, not necessarily the group. People don't dig into this stuff to understand it deeper so often talk past each other due to lack of context when they are even willing to talk at all. This is why I'm taking the time to explain what I perceive in as honest a way I can.

So how can the ideology be recognized separate from the group? This is where the true danger is. It's such a gray area with immense cultural overlap that in a lot of ways it can't be. It's more of a gradient than anything. Probably a big reason why ideologies tied to things like race have always had bad outcome historically.

Willing to discuss anything further but will likely be taking a break from the topic for a while after this.

Conversation starters guaranteed to get you laid tonight:

"Yeah, today we had a big debate on a forum dedicated to discussing the 1993 video game DOOM, about a literal ninth-grader's decision to host a gay-themed community project on another DOOM video game forum that we don't really care about. You see, they're making all these really gay maps... uh, maps are kind of like levels, you know what I mean... and, uh, anyway, the host of the forum, uh, the one where the debate happened, not the other one, his name is forty ounce... and he's like really into all that liberal stuff, right? But the members there are mostly conservative, not liberal like the other website where fourty ounce is banned from, so we had the same debate we've had about the topic a few hundred times in the past but this time we wrote a book about it, I just don't understand why people care about this stuff so much, it's psychotic."

I really think doomer boards members, and those that needed to spam post their dislike for the project on DW (spam posts that have since been deleted), and here would seriously benefit from humanizing the persons youre talking to or about.

It needs to be made obvious that a teenager pandering as a political puppet and virtue signaling for popularity points for some kinda nefarious dystopian regime change that imposes a gay agenda on everyone who doesnt want it is a wildly fantastical and shitty science fiction scenario compared to a lonely gay teenager that made some rainbow doom graphics and posted a community project idea for gay gendernonconforming doomers so they can make friends that have these things in common and map together. Keep in mind, i dont think many of us are teenagers here, many of you are grown adults who, in an alternate timeline, could have even had children that would not be very far off from this project leader's age. Is this how you speak to kids in your normal life? Is the outcome of your argument more important than the means in which you express it? When you were a kid, were you ever treated like shit by an adult? Did you realize that adult was fucken cool as shit when that happened or did it suck and you hated them?

StodgyAyatollah I'm not entirely sure if your stating this as your opinion or as an objective fact. Sorry if this response is not reflective of your position. The part that critical theory is the divisive part, as opposed to being willfully and loudly unaware of the critique that examines how power dynamics disenfranchise minority groups from having their fun and safe groups. The lack of awareness is the better path to peace?

When someone who is in the minority is coming up with an idea meant for themselves and people like them, and then they get dogpiled by the majority with insults and condescending language from people who probably wouldnt have anything to do with the project if the project was active and moving along, what is this intending to accomplish?

If the issue is what's being taught or explored in post graduate education, or distributed through news channels and social media, shouldn't those powers be the ones getting the backlash? Not the people who are being influenced by it (if it can even be verified that's whats happening here??)

In a not-for-profit gift economy like Doom where no one profits from anything, everyone in the Doom community loses when the people here treat each other like shit in such a way that they are influenced to stop doing the things they like to do.

He's right that people have and should have freedom of association, and that Tangra is literally retarded. But 40 also doesn't understand the delineation between a Rainbow Hitler Youth^† and a group of individuals who decide to band over their like of sodomy.

Besides "gays in their own space", keep in mind that this latest clusterfuck spawned particularly because an "Eager Ally" DW moderator suspended TimeOfDeath over a non-offensive comment, one in a completely different thread than 40oz's proclaimed "gay project space" thread. He incidentally mentioned "rainbow community" but didn't simultaneously bow down and show excited and unfettering allegiance to "the thing" in the same swoop. Instead it was deemed "thinly veiled" snark HATE edgelording. If only ToD put heil/hitler in his bio to show solidarity with them, so they knew he was part of the team and supportive of the same stuff they are into. Maybe the Confederate Pride Flag and Swastika too, though I'm not sure which one of those respectively is the sexuality, and which one the gender. Could've avoided a suspension if so, smh.

-[Person A]:  "I sexually identify as a person who participates in a subculture with arbitrary sub-elements and that cannot take criticism of any or all kind, especially cross-platform of course! And I make sure I map every such thing as part of 'immutable characteristics of sexuality' which I may or may not actually have. There is totally nothing pathological or unhealthily convergent about this at all. It's just, like, who I am."
- Some other person somewhere does something dumb explicitly in the name of LGBT™ and as a claimingly-inseparable part of being LGBT™.
-[Random YouTube Post]:  "lol, putting the L in the LGBT."
-[Person A, in direct response]:  "Omg, homophobia is rampant and on the rise! I'm being hate speeched for simply existing and just being who I am.   Also, I hope Elon Musk dies for some reason."

(^†"I identify as a Divide-and-Conquer political branding gimmick"; infiltrates (even marginalized) communities and institutions, and then pressures them with deemingly uncriticizable cult dynamics; mob harassment against dissent or even just lack of open and explicit support; etc.)

...Anyways.
But to bookend the above: on the other hand we have the Tangras here who seem to think people can't congregate on their own terms and volition to make things... make things anywhere... at all. "I can't believe the gays think they can just waltz onto EARTH and do stuff. Why can't they keep it to themselves, there are other planets! Also, why can't I waltz into gate-kept projects myself, wtf? I am being bigot-phobe-ismed against!" That's... literally the problem thinking that got us here in the first place...

says the guy who edited his post. i'll be letting the seemingly reasonable ones go first, then one day they'll in fact discover they weren't being reasonable at all (though obviously opposed to even more unreasonable people), i've made peace with that, in fact i'll be waiting for you guys on the other side of the rubicon. also you're a

Opinions based on what I've read and seen, yes. The examination of the world around us for academic purposes is a good thing but is of no consequence for my stance. Once crossed over into real world practice it is a different matter. At which point I have to look at things like intent and possible or likely consequences. Reading enough of the material it's pretty clear to me the identity oriented branches of critical theory will predominately have negative social impacts and I believe it's one of a number of contributing factors currently stoking unwarranted animosity and division. I cannot see any ideology that intends to divide and categories the way it does ever doing more than pitting people against each other. If it had a unifying foundation I would likely have a dramatically different perspective. My opposition to it is entirely based on my desire for peace, knowing that peace is not the default state of humanity.

Anything from alleviating boredom to sexual gratification. Coming from my background I have to be honest that people are really fucked up and I don't expect more out of the doom community than I do the general public.

I think being critical of bad ideas just in general is a fair response but yes, being critical of any individual or entity that is intentionally spreading it is a legitimate and practical target for critique. For the average person no reason to even bother then. Serves no purpose.

A lot of people here have been chased out of things. A sick irony maybe.

40oz, please! for many years being gay is something people are proud of. please, stop playing "we are opressed minority" card already. as it was told earlier in this topic, today they have MORE rights and protection than "normal straight white" people. i believe that you chose the wrong hill to die on: it is time to protect "straight rights" already. ;-)

actually, THAT is what upsets people. this overprotection. it is bad for everybody; first and foremost it is bad for those who need that protection in the first place. it is not specifically about you (sorry!), i am talking about the whole picture.

p.s.: dammit! i am late to the party… again. ;-)

The way everything is turned into everything: boredom, missing the point, bring a gottem contrarian at all costs.

Nah. It's the language of children who have been convinced by nearly every facet of modern society that they belong in bubble wrap because every one is out to get them.