40oz
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Post by 40oz on Sept 2, 2023 1:05:00 GMT -5
Tempest Enterprise is a new episode for Doom 2 designed for limit removing source ports made by various members of Doomer Boards.     DownloadUpdated: 09/02/2023 11:43AM ET (dropbox link)https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z5p7bnkkzn2f0nyu7ib9k/DBP_61_v1.zip?rlkey=6r8srbb1sbib0g82pnjo06yds&dl=0MAPLIST ■ MAP01: Unbound Iterons - Glikkzy■ MAP02: Mission Control - 40oz■ MAP03: The Grimace Incident - snowy44■ MAP04: Infected Core - Indigo■ MAP05: Specimen 67 - JadingTsunami■ MAP06: Internal Infection - thehockster■ MAP07: Auxiliary Power - 40oz■ MAP08: Dimension X - snowy44■ MAP09: Annihilation - snowy44■ MAP10: Tesseract - thelokk■ MAP11: Lean Leaks - russin■ MAP12: Containment Protocol - biz■ MAP13: Deus Nano - 40oz■ MAP14: Tempest Enterprise - 40oz
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
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Post by matador on Sept 2, 2023 1:23:43 GMT -5
Congrats everyone! Cross posted at all the usual places.
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Post by snowy44 on Sept 2, 2023 2:13:06 GMT -5
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,078
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Post by matador on Sept 2, 2023 2:26:02 GMT -5
Found a bug - Signal 11 error on MAP03
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Post by snowy44 on Sept 2, 2023 3:28:38 GMT -5
matadorI ran the UDB map analysis - it doesn't show any errors except for some stuck things (which I should probably fix for the next version). I also tried testing it in prboom+ and didn't get any errors, so I don't really know what that is or how to fix it.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
The code isn't free if one can't close it
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Post by SilverMiner on Sept 2, 2023 3:40:52 GMT -5
I had a map, which before shrinking of starting area(now it is map01 of Boggy Region) - crashed Boom202(segmentation violation) and didn't crash prboom-plus.
I think it's something with nodebuilding
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
The code isn't free if one can't close it
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Post by SilverMiner on Sept 2, 2023 3:42:38 GMT -5
Maybe it's weird case with division by zero
Edit:
Check cwilv02
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 2, 2023 3:43:52 GMT -5
Found a bug - Signal 11 error on MAP03 also happened to me once on this map. reloaded the wad and it didn't happen again, weird.
Went looking in SLADE, there is a weird lump under MAP05 called GL_MAP03...not sure if related?
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Nockson
Doomer
DoomWiki editor
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Post by Nockson on Sept 2, 2023 4:43:29 GMT -5
Minor thing - text file states date of release as 08/01/2023.
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Post by mrmasker on Sept 2, 2023 5:08:01 GMT -5
Wow, the colours I'm seeing in the screenshot look great. Very interesting looking theme, I'll definitely check this out at some point.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Sept 2, 2023 9:05:50 GMT -5
I made a quick update that corrects the release date in the text file, includes the map titles, and fixes the crash in MAP03 (i think), though I wasn't having an error to begin with so I'm not sure exactly how to test for it yet.
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,078
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Post by matador on Sept 2, 2023 10:51:45 GMT -5
I made a quick update that corrects the release date in the text file, includes the map titles, and fixes the crash in MAP03 (i think), though I wasn't having an error to begin with so I'm not sure exactly how to test for it yet. I'll download it and see if the error pops up (I was using dsda). Is the link the same as the previous one? |
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Sept 2, 2023 11:14:03 GMT -5
Yes, the link is the same
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,078
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Post by matador on Sept 2, 2023 11:46:16 GMT -5
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
The code isn't free if one can't close it
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Post by SilverMiner on Sept 2, 2023 12:30:29 GMT -5
broke but it's not fatal? |
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,078
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Post by matador on Sept 2, 2023 12:57:32 GMT -5
broke but it's not fatal? It was pretty bad. Might just be a port specific thing but in dsda, this is what the opening looked like:  |
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 2, 2023 15:30:36 GMT -5
whoo, finally get to play this. Please find attached some dsdademos for your map on UV using the fixed version Matador posted. Also my impressions on the maps.
MAP01:
Very cool midi. This map is very well detailed right away, wow. love how claustrophobic it is. I like the idea behind the locked/unlocked panels to show the player progression, but the one right next to the switch that slowly lowers looks a little cheesy imo. I haven't looked at the map in the editor (edit: lies i just did) but here you could definitely use an S1 - floor lower to highest floor action and get a clean instant transition from locked to unlocked.
idea on how to do it: You would basically just need to reverse the setup you have now by raising sector 66 up to a height of -24 and apply the locked texture to the front side of it, this would set the highest adjacent floor of the moving sector (tag 2) equal to the roof. Then you take the actual tag 2 moving sector (sector 68) and apply the unlocked texture to front face of it and sink that sector in the ground so its hidden at the start. When the player hits the switch, the floor will "lower" to the highest adjacent which is equal to the roof, and insta-pop up. Because you've wisely set-up all your doors tied to this switch adjacent to void space, those will still lower like a normal lower to lowest action even though you are using a lower to highest now...
This map is a little bit mazey. I kind of got lost at the red key door. It sort of feels like a dead-end here since I did not have the keycard, so I turned around without seeing the switch right here behind me. Might be worth it to add some lights or some sharp contrast color around the switch to grab the players eye rather than the grey supports which sort of blend in to the rest of the walls in future maps.
Kinda wish there was some goody in the monster closet that opens up near the steps to the redkey door. This would probably have been a good spot for a secret in the map maybe? Idk, I just have an aversion to monster closets being empty except for monsters.
That hallway that transforms from tech to purple goop is so good. I can't help but think that the SSG fight would have benefited from slamming the door shut behind the player before they grabbed the boomstick. I was able to just dip out of this room through the door and chokepoint all the enemies in the doorway. The inside of the SSG room looks like it would have been fun to fight in and there appears to be a little path to the west where the player can loop back to the previous hallway and escape anyways.
I like how the yellow key loops you back to an earlier area, but i kind of got lost here again. I think it just has to do with the amount of gray in this texture set.
Overall a real cool opener map, great lighting and amazing attention to detail. Top notch work as always.
MAP02:
Lol we have one gun and 50 bullets, thanks for your service! Cool start, although it sort of feels like maybe this should have been map01 what with the little story interlude and how short it is compared to the current map01 (this took me 3 mins to beat, map01 took almost 10 mins)?
I think this might be the first time that I feel like the ambient sounds detract from the map. The screechy radio constantly repeating and the endless computer bleep bloops became annoying quite quickly. I think it would really help to add 10 or 20 seconds of silence at the end of the wav files so that they aren't constantly looping. They also run on into the intermission screen sometimes after you exit a level.
This midi feels like it would be better at home in immortal warfare to me. Since I actually tested this map during the month I don't have too many notes. The double AV fight feels much better with that crate there for cover.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2023 15:57:21 GMT -5
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nnnvork
Doomer
Nom-nom Chomsky
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Post by nnnvork on Sept 3, 2023 12:54:53 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the "bio-experiment gone wrong" plot.
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 4, 2023 19:23:14 GMT -5
more dsda-demos with saves/loads on UV using the latest version.
MAP03
Heh, judging from the bridge at the start, the blasting midi, and barrels in the first room...this is probably a snowy map :]
An incredibly minor nitpick, but I'm not a fan of the first switch the player has to hit to open the doors. It just 'feels' like it should be against the wall with the computer screens for some reason. This is incredibly subjective, but in this very specific setup where you have an elevated platform with stairs on either side and a switch, it feels like my eyes naturally want to go towards the back wall here. I think if you want the player to turn around to a see a switch the other way you sort of have to jut the elevated platform out into the room a bit to create a bit of space around the switch to catch the players eye. Idk, don't want to get too into the weeds on a mostly irrelevant thing, but I missed this switch the first time I came up here is the point I guess.
Really love the blown off metal panel on the floor. great!
Your enemy asymmetry is getting much better. In these simple early encounters, it always feels like there is a 'way' to approach them, even if I take the wrong approach. I find myself thinking "oh i got lucky that shotgunner behind me didn't blast me while i took care of the zombieman" or "damn i should have noticed that rev that got me instead of focusing on the pinky," which always feels better than, "oh the enemies were the same on either side of me, guess I was probably taking that damage no matter what".
I got pretty low on health around the red key area and wound up dying here. Right after this part though the eyeball lift has like 3 or 4 health kits. Could maybe ave spread those out a bit more? The vile room with the wood switch sort of defused itself because the viles all got caught down in a corner on the bottom floor.
I punch at some loosey-goosey texturing by the yellow key. You maybe could have plucked one of the viles from the previous room and dropped it right here on the stairs in the closets that open up after the player grabs the YK and drops down. Felt like it would have been a scramble.
For the RL secret right near the start, it would be nice to put a switch texture on the line so it makes a sound when the player uses it. I know you don't want to have a switch texture showing, but since the upper isn't exposed you could stick it up there just to get the sound effect. Just my opinion, but its always nice to have a sound cue when you hit something.
Lots of texture misaligns in the hallway west of the start leading to the soulsphere.
Had to iddt for the RL and plasma secrets. Was wondering where all the missing kills were, then realized i left those turret imps up in the little cubbies behind the red key door. Tbh i skipped them because there were no barrels up there:[
Fun map
side note: I highly approve the quieter plasma sound
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 5, 2023 18:36:45 GMT -5
More dsda-demos on UV with the latest version posted by matador.
MAP04:
Cool start, very dark and brooding. There is a lot of nice detailing here. I notice the floor cutouts at the start look to be in the shape of the tiles, but it looks like the map was moved on the grid after they were made because they don't quite line up with the pattern.
This start can be pretty rough, the revs in tight spaces can do a tremendous amount of damage right at the start. I died at the lift when a chaingunner teleported behind me. A secret armor instead of a backpack at the start might have been nice.
The computer hallway area looks phenomenal, lots of nice detailing in there.
Overall this map was actually pretty tough, which is fine for me. My only real bone would be the archvile ambush directly behind the player at the exit, that felt pretty BS. Didn't find all the secrets. Good map.
MAP05:
Damn this start is dark, I couldn't even see the AV before he teleported away. It is quite atmospheric though. Again the static radio sfx on constant loop at the start here becomes grating quickly.
Not many notes while playing, the map was pretty fun and gripping. The roaming vile definitely instills terror while you hunt for a gun. Once I found the berserk pack it was over though.
The lift puzzle for the blue key reminded e a lot of your dbp54 map. I have to admit it was a little confusing. I think the problem you run into is that your switches usually have the player facing away from the thing that they activate or not being able to see the goal from the switch which is important. I think the best way I've seen this type of two lift puzzle done is still dbp50 map01.
The last two areas were pretty fun, and overall i had a good time on this one and liked what you were going for. Nice work.
There were a couple issues:
- The vile at the starting area zapped me one time before he teleported away, which meant that particular run was pretty much over. Would have been nice to have some cover in the start area from him just in case.
- I had some ghost monsters in the circular hallway, zombiemans probably squished by door and then rezzed by the vile. It added to the spooky nature of the map, but was pretty annoying.
- The 'Go Back' teleport at the end of the map borked for me. I think I hit the switches too quickly in succession. I think if you draw a small static sector between the two lowering floors that should fix it.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Sept 5, 2023 19:00:07 GMT -5
- The 'Go Back' teleport at the end of the map borked for me. I think I hit the switches too quickly in succession. I think if you draw a small static sector between the two lowering floors that should fix it. Thanks for playing and for the feedback! How did it "bork" exactly? (sorry, the demo de-syncs for me for some reason) |
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 5, 2023 19:48:59 GMT -5
- The 'Go Back' teleport at the end of the map borked for me. I think I hit the switches too quickly in succession. I think if you draw a small static sector between the two lowering floors that should fix it. Thanks for playing and for the feedback! How did it "bork" exactly? (sorry, the demo de-syncs for me for some reason) the teleport platform did not lower all the way to the ground, probably because i started lowering it while the other sector adjacent was also lowering. |
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Post by JadingTsunami on Sept 5, 2023 20:12:42 GMT -5
Thanks for playing and for the feedback! How did it "bork" exactly? (sorry, the demo de-syncs for me for some reason) the teleport platform did not lower all the way to the ground, probably because i started lowering it while the other sector adjacent was also lowering. Ah yeah, I knew about that one, but since I figured it was not possible to lower it beyond what was reachable I disregarded it. But perhaps you found perfect timing, so I will fix it. Thanks. I fixed this in my bugfix edition (same link as before, in the bugfix thread). |
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Post by AskYourDrAboutUVFast on Sept 6, 2023 20:55:39 GMT -5
More dsda-demos on UV from latest release in matadors post above (i redownloaded to make sure the desyncs weren't caused by me)
MAP06 Damn, a pretty rough start. Right away I'm not thrilled about being surrounded by hitscanners on the first trap with no armor. I mention this frequently, but monster asymmetry is a pretty important and oft overlooked part of combat. Click the spoiler if you want some analysis of this part of your map.
Consider this first trap here for a moment, walls slowly lower and you surround me on two sides with imps and shotgunners, as a player I am now faced with a decision: which group of enemies do I deal with first?
This forces me to make a strategic decision, which is fun. One of the key ingredients of what makes Dooms combat entertaining and addictive is that all the monsters do different things, and because of that some are more dangerous than others, which in turn, incentivizes the player to prioritize certain monsters in combat over others, adding a layer of strategy.
But what is my strategy here for this trap in your map? I look at both groups of monsters and they are essentially identical, no one group has more priority over the other, so that fun strategic decision that I would normally get to make as a player is stripped away. But think about how this trap would be if you, for example, removed all the monsters on one side and replaced them with a couple of pinky demons. Now the player has a clear monster prioritization choice to make. The pinky demons are not an immediate threat, but the hitscanners are. I would want to take out the hitscanners but also be mindful that the pinkys didn't get too close to me, block my movement, corner me, etc.
Notice how this proposed hypothetical combat scenario has more of a flow to it? How it is designed with an intended strategy in mind? In my opinion this makes for the best doom combat, and from my observation most of the best doom mappers use this technique in some form or another. Some people refer to these as combat puzzles, a term which makes most people think of very hard challenge maps with tons of monsters...but the puzzles don't necessarily need to be hard or complicated. Even a puzzle as simple and mundane as a closet with hitscanners and one with pinky demons can add an extra layer of complexity to the combat in your map.
Now let me throw some qualifiers in here: The solution to the puzzle doesn't always have to be monster prioritization either. For example I think the identical monster closets would be alright if I had a Rocket Launcher here where the fun would be quickly splatting the low tier mobs on each side, or if I had the chaingun and could quickly knock out the weaker hitscanners. You could also have one of these monster closets contain a nice powerup or weapon and it would have a similar effect to monster prioritization. There are many different routes to take, but usually monster asymmetry is the easiest to implement.
Not all combat needs to be a puzzle or have a flow, but the player will definitely notice when it doesn't, even if its only subconsciously. I like the pieces of the wall you have on the ground, thats always a cool touch. Wasn't a fan of the pinkies popping out of the ground right in may face in the narrow hallway, but I did like how the hallway opened up while I was running down it.
The elevator that hides the RL and yellow key isn't very obvious, not sure i would have noticed if I hadn't been circling back. The fight after the yellow key grab with the cacos and chaingunner turrets was sort of a flop for me. The metal pillars around the walkway in this area aren't quite big enough to provide cover from the chaingunners, so I didn't really want to move out into the open, and then the mini caco cloud floated in and it was just the two groups of enemies in-fighting. I think with more cover up here to let me run around the fight would have been better. Maybe I just played it completely wrong. Again, through the yellow key door, imps popping up right in my face -__- I like the busted open crate of rockets in the blue key area, the roof in here though is paper thin, looks a bit unnatural where it touches the skybox.
Overall I had a good time in this map. I noticed a far greater variety of traps in this map then the last level from you I played and it kept things fresh. I liked how the walls kept peeling apart to reveal more monsters, and I liked the overuse of spiders near the end of the map. Some of the popup traps could use a bit of work with the timing on when they actually pop as a few of them were right in my face. You will find that some players have a very, very low tolerance for that style of trap. Also I think this map was still a bit too devoid of pillars and when they were there, they were too small to use as cover for the player. Otherwise I keep seeing improvement from you with each map. Nice work.
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