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Post by Tangra on Oct 21, 2023 14:45:47 GMT -5
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Post by lunchlunch on Oct 27, 2023 3:16:17 GMT -5
Tangra I enjoyed these maps for the most part. The environments are beautiful, particularly in Aqua Externa. My criticisms were that I didn't love dealing with enemies scattered around the big open areas and I also didn't like the way you would teleport enemies way behind the player a lot of times. Overall though these were fun to play. ShiroiAkuma Hey I'm sorry, but I hated MAP02. It almost felt like you went out of your way to make the gameplay tedious and sloggy. It's a shame because the map itself is awesome, it's a very detailed setting, the progression is interesting, the environmental storytelling is great... But 3/4 of those monsters should be gone. Especially the hundreds of imps just sitting around on ledges that you have to plink away at one at a time. The SSG comes way too late, there are so many mid-tier enemies before it that you have to fight with weak-ass weapons. I was running past pointless groups of enemies to conserve my time and my ammo and somehow I was STILL running out of ammo. My irritation with the map got so bad that I started just using IDDQD/IDCLIP and then after a few more minutes, I just gave up on the map. I can't finish it, it's too much of a slog, I was forty minutes in and not even halfway through the monster count. It could and should be an awesome map but you've filled it with so many monsters that you've spoiled it, the combat is such a chore in its current state.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2023 9:50:34 GMT -5
map02 combat gets better later, the first half felt barely balanced for continuous tbh
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ShiroiAkuma
Doomer
Great detective knows best
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Post by ShiroiAkuma on Oct 27, 2023 9:59:11 GMT -5
Thank you for playing, even if you're not completed level. I'm not upset or something, it's allright! You're not the first one, who dropped this map and i can agree with you on many things. You've completed something like 65% of the map, so you were close  It was all my big experiment with map scales and enemy placement, so i'm not surprised that someone can dislike this. I'm trying to find my style of mapping and this is one of my first work after very long break in doom community. But I am personnaly prefer this type of gameplay more, than slaughters, like Sunder or something and i tried to make something, that i can play and have fun, if that was not my work. When you said, what you low on ammo even after skip so much enemies you forgot about ammo, that lies with that enemies  When i'm making battle gameplay on this map i got that thing in my head, that UV is HARD difficulty and then i think about HARD, i mean REALLY hard. This wad have a difficulty settings, so it'll be easier on lower. And about source port: no, i'm playing and making every test of this in prboom+ Anyway, thanks again for your video. I'm not going to fundamentally rework this map, but i took some notes off your commentaries and 4th and 5th maps on this map will be more... uhm... user friendly, i think. Hope you'll find some time and play MAP03 of this wad. Others, who plays this, said, that map 03 is way better, that 02. |
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Post by lunchlunch on Oct 27, 2023 19:40:05 GMT -5
ShiroiAkumaYou're confusing difficulty with dumping in more monsters though. The map isn't hard, the only parts that are difficult are because you put the player in a flat open space with zero cover. Those parts are "difficult" because they're unfair. In the rest of the map it's not difficult at all, all you've done by putting loads of monsters in is that it just takes longer to kill them, that's it.
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Post by Tangra on Oct 28, 2023 12:03:35 GMT -5
lunchlunch thank you! Great gameplay and critique. I expected some of the points you made about the overused teleport ambushes, the scaling, overall pacing and monster placements. I've come to terms that these maps don't work well as conventional levels, and i even admitted not long ago that i dislike the combat and that the ideas i had at the time are falling flat when watching people play the maps. I probably should've reduced the monster counts and make the maps more like an exploration type of thing, but i'm not sure if even that will help. I don't know... Maybe there are ways to fix and improve the combat, without changing the look and layouts, but at this point i'm so tired of revisiting these big, overdetailed levels that i had to move on into simpler things. My mistake was that i started in UDMF, and my early mapping attempts ended up focusing on architecture details too much, and leaving the combat as an afterthought. These two maps are probably the best i have to show from my UDMF ones, but now i'm done with that format for good. I already did one large vanilla level, three limit removing and one boom map, that all still have some of my bad tropes, but i'm slowly changing my style and i hope i could improve in time. The map that i'm working on now is another vanilla-compatible map, that i will share next month when i'm allowed to make another request. I hope i didn't forget to address something from the video, or a question you might have that i missed? I was impatient and i ended up watching the videos at work, so i was a bit on edge.
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Post by Tangra on Nov 9, 2023 1:50:11 GMT -5
lunchlunch , I've completed my vanilla map, and had it playtested. It is a more light adventure and for the first half it plays like a Doom 1 map. There is a little backstory in text file that gives context to the setting and visual themes. www.moddb.com/games/doom-ii/addons/zen-2212-ad-cl2, tested in Chocolate Doom, Crispy Doom, DSDA-Doom and GZDoom.
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Post by lunchlunch on Nov 17, 2023 2:21:43 GMT -5
TangraVery nice looking map, plays well too. Great job.
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Post by raddicted on Nov 19, 2023 8:23:23 GMT -5
a little slimefall map, in the same style as juice.wad (a map i sent here earlier) the map itself! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 7:00:45 GMT -5
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,357
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Post by SilverMiner on Nov 23, 2023 8:24:32 GMT -5
Telling by screenshots, looks brave enough (I think there should be more truecolor using wads, lightweight of course)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 15:22:40 GMT -5
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Post by lunchlunch on Nov 30, 2023 1:57:27 GMT -5
@supremebiovizier This kind of map is very much not my cup of tea, but even then, more thought should have been put into: the layout- it's large, flat, mazey, often a hallway simulator, much of the map blends together the enemy encounters- they blend into the environment, shoot through trees, you don't give training areas to teach the player how these new enemies behave the thematics- ugly sprites of varying sizes, random nintendo references, strange overlapping bits of music that don't always go together, the stock doom textures clash with the custom winter textures and the progression- I beat the map without trying to, it's unclear if keys are required to progress, the whole map seems open and allows you to run past everything raddicted Another fun bite-sized map with good aesthetics and claustrophobic battles. Great floor patterns |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 19:44:18 GMT -5
Damn people are so fucking serious over doom maps, it's Christmas....it was supposed to be fun, "there's too many trees" you're in a fucking forest. I'm off to make a whore house wad. DOOM fans are dumb.
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Post by lunchlunch on Dec 1, 2023 20:58:21 GMT -5
@supremebiovizier lol ok, you're welcome for giving you feedback in the feedback thread, buddy
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CittyKat112
Doomer
Kitty cat one hundred and twelve
Posts: 804
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Post by CittyKat112 on Dec 2, 2023 5:18:51 GMT -5
Damn people are so fucking serious over doom maps, it's Christmas....it was supposed to be fun, "there's too many trees" you're in a fucking forest. I'm off to make a whore house wad. DOOM fans are dumb. People like you suck. Imagine wasting your time on a map you didn't like and then the f@66ot who made it acts offended because you didn't suck his dick. Judging from the video, you just used random assets for your shitty map without thinking much about how these assets work together. There's no thematic coherency, it's just random crap thrown together just for the sake of being there. The enemy roster is fucking retarded as well. What was the point of adding unkillable bunnies? Why is there a giant snowman that teleports away (?) after launching his attack? You don't give any explanation as to why those bunnies can't be killed, so the player will likely waste some of their ammo on these little shits. The sprites are ugly as shit, looks like you took some pictures from google and stretched them to make them look bigger (the skybox looks like trash too). The trees are obstructive and don't provide any cover for the player making combat dull and unenjoyable because you have to take unnecessary damage from hitscanners while traversing the map for no other reason than you being incompetent at game design. Weapons are just laying around for the player to find without any indication that you should find them in the areas they're in (why is there a BFG in the forest when it seems like I don't really need it?). And since the map is so underdetailed and same-y looking, finding these weapons is no easy task. Enemy placement sucks too. Some of the enemies blend with the environment, some of them are too small to notice, and other enemies are behind trees (so if you're dealing with hitscan, you'll take damage without even knowing where it came from). The exit hidden in a secret doesn't make any sense, it takes you to a secret map or what? Whatever, I'm not gonna play this shit tier map anyway. tl;dr this maps sucks, fuck you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 5:51:42 GMT -5
Damn people are so fucking serious over doom maps, it's Christmas....it was supposed to be fun, "there's too many trees" you're in a fucking forest. I'm off to make a whore house wad. DOOM fans are dumb. People like you suck. Imagine wasting your time on a map you didn't like and then the f@66ot who made it acts offended because you didn't suck his dick. Judging from the video, you just used random assets for your shitty map without thinking much about how these assets work together. There's no thematic coherency, it's just random crap thrown together just for the sake of being there. The enemy roster is fucking retarded as well. What was the point of adding unkillable bunnies? Why is there a giant snowman that teleports away (?) after launching his attack? You don't give any explanation as to why those bunnies can't be killed, so the player will likely waste some of their ammo on these little shits. The sprites are ugly as shit, looks like you took some pictures from google and stretched them to make them look bigger (the skybox looks like trash too). The trees are obstructive and don't provide any cover for the player making combat dull and unenjoyable because you have to take unnecessary damage from hitscanners while traversing the map for no other reason than you being incompetent at game design. Weapons are just laying around for the player to find without any indication that you should find them in the areas they're in (why is there a BFG in the forest when it seems like I don't really need it?). And since the map is so underdetailed and same-y looking, finding these weapons is no easy task. Enemy placement sucks too. Some of the enemies blend with the environment, some of them are too small to notice, and other enemies are behind trees (so if you're dealing with hitscan, you'll take damage without even knowing where it came from). The exit hidden in a secret doesn't make any sense, it takes you to a secret map or what? Whatever, I'm not gonna play this shit tier map anyway. tl;dr this maps sucks, fuck you. it's called a text file you cunt. Nothing you said is valid, just same old I wanna play DOOM2 remake rhetoric, fuck you. |
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CittyKat112
Doomer
Kitty cat one hundred and twelve
Posts: 804
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Post by CittyKat112 on Dec 2, 2023 8:10:38 GMT -5
@supremebiovizier then you should've put the enemy roster showcasing new monsters in the post retard. I mean do you really think anyone would care about your little terrywad enough to read the.txt file? Wrong. Everything I said is valid, this map looks and plays like shit. It IS shit. You're just some retard who learned about dehacked and thought putting random shit you stole from the internet into your garbage maps would make them better but failed horribly.
Also it's funny how you say 'you just want to play more Doom II' when your map actually has more in common with the custom Doom maps from 90s. It's maze-y, ugly as shit and the progression doesn't make any sense.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,357
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Post by SilverMiner on Dec 2, 2023 9:48:30 GMT -5
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Post by lunchlunch on Dec 2, 2023 10:13:52 GMT -5
CittyKat112 he's not taking criticism well but left to his own devices, he might have come around @supremebiovizier a .txt file is useful for checking the complevel but any teaching about your map's mechanics is better to do within the confines of the level
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 16:10:12 GMT -5
@supremebiovizier THEN PRESS F1 FOR A HELP SCREEN WHICH TELLS YOU EVERYTHING IN THE TEXT FILE. |
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CittyKat112
Doomer
Kitty cat one hundred and twelve
Posts: 804
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Post by CittyKat112 on Dec 2, 2023 16:24:45 GMT -5
@supremebiovizier THEN PRESS F1 FOR A HELP SCREEN WHICH TELLS YOU EVERYTHING IN THE TEXT FILE. No thanks. |
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Post by thundercunt on Dec 2, 2023 16:29:18 GMT -5
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Resident DB English Teacher
Posts: 1,226 
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Post by Gokuma on Dec 2, 2023 20:06:50 GMT -5
Aren't the bunnies on your side, attacking monsters for you? You wouldn't shoot Daisy WOULD YOU?
I appreciate @supremebiovizier 's work, but there is certainly room for improvement. Hit scanners at a great distance shooting through trees is a problem. Something that would alleviate that is making their shots super fast projectile bullets that are blocked by obstacles. One of the oldest sample dehacked patches packaged with the editor maybe was Morphing Monsters. It may not be everyone's couple of tea but Supremebiovizier's morphing monsters are a bit more cohesive than say a zombieman turning into a spider mastermind. Input from Lunchlunch should be well heeded, and some from CittyKat112 too even if it's a bit harsh.
As I said before, more conventional quality blending with the essence of his work would go a long ways and totally melt some minds. If I didn't have so much to work on, I'd consider making a map to run with his resources. Well I am using the falling snow effect much appreciatedly in map07 of Friday the 13th.
I had fun playing through most of his work (I actually played all his released maps!) MyPark was the least of the bunch. Playing in Zandronum I did type resurrect in the console a few times and I used iddt to find my way and find some keys in both Castle Massacre and Auld Lang Syne.
Whorehouse.wad? Hilarious! I might not be going out on a limb by predicting some influence from the 1976 movie Taxi Driver, or Big Trouble in Little China. Maybe some alien tripleness from Total Recall.
Also when someone recommends trying F1, do not ignore them! (I've actually done the same thing recently, heh.)
Since this is totally ZDoom stuff, it's better to go with almost totally decorate rather than Dehacked, except for things Dehacked makes quicker and easier.
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CittyKat112
Doomer
Kitty cat one hundred and twelve
Posts: 804
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Post by CittyKat112 on Dec 3, 2023 2:12:58 GMT -5
Aren't the bunnies on your side, attacking monsters for you? You wouldn't shoot Daisy WOULD YOU? ... Didn't notice if that's the case when I watched the video. Tbh I only replied to him in such a manner because playtesting is serious business. Well, not really but it does take a lot of time and effort to not only play the map, but also jot down everything you liked or didn't like and try to give a useful advice on how to improve the map. LunchLunch gave him honest and detailed feedback on what he thinks should be improved and that guy's response basically was 'oh geez, it's a fucking vidya gaem why can't you just enjoy things? You're stupid'. If I was wasting the most valuable resource I have (my spare time) on his damn map and that would be his response to my feedback, I'd completely lose my shit. Also... I ignored his advice about pressing F1 because I didn't download the map lol. |
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