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Post by dangerousdaviebowie on Jul 31, 2022 8:06:23 GMT -5
This kind of started from some discussions I read somewhere people were arguing about Doom 1 vs Doom 2 levels which then devolved into shitflinging over the super shotgun. Some people pointed out that playing through 10 good levels is alot better than 32 levels, they followed it up by explaining how each episode can start you up small or however the mapper feels like it should start, then gradually the levels would begin to open up leading right towards the end goal giving you better feeling of accomplishment.
Doom 2 on the other hand is argued in good faith that its like a long road trip. The one where you gotta make sure you checked out ever location before you reached your destination. There may be few hiccups and levels that are just too goddamn big, but they can still feel unique to play-through. Especially through the final part of the map before the boss room.
I don't know but I'd kinda liked to see what's everyone else thinks on this type of subject. Minus the autistic shit fit over SSG ruining Doom for some reason.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 9:58:49 GMT -5
First off, the levels in Doom are better (IMHO) than those in Doom II. Less monster/item variety yes, but more memorable levels in general.
Also, the episodes of Doom are very thematically coherent, so most of the hell episode looks like hell, the first episode is all techbase, even most maps of Episode 2 don't seem terribly out of place along each other.
Doom II on the other hand is a bit all over the place, so you never really feel "where you are going", plot-wise. It's just vague mission after vague mission with a few memorable locations scattered throughout. And despite that Doom II also has "episodes" in a sense, there is usually little in the design of each end-of-episode map that hints towards a finale or a chapter closing before the text screen.
And finally, doing an episode instead of a whole wad is a lot less overwhelming.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 31, 2022 11:12:35 GMT -5
In terms of just playing Doom 2, I think having an option right from the user interface to start from the middle of the set would be pretty useful. I've replayed Entryway, Underhalls and The Gantlet like 10,000 times, but I've probably only played maps like The Citadel, The Catacombs, Monster Condo less than 10% of that. My memory of the middle maps in Doom 2 are a blur in some areas, but I think I could probably play the first 3 maps blindfolded. I don't know if it was a timesaver to program Doom 2 that way or if they kinda secretly knew Doom 2 maps were gonna be forgettable and they didn't want to have players launch the game into a confusing wasteland like MAP12 The Factory or get pummeled to death by revenants in the pointy sectors of MAP21 Nirvana. It's probably the former honestly because Doom 2 was made in less than a year with: 1. A wealth of new textures and graphics 2. 9 new monsters (if you wanna count SS Nazis and icon of sin) 3. a new gun 4. a bunch of new music 5. 32 levels All tested and fully playable using fewer people than we have for DBP and with slower and shittier editing tools. I think it's kinda important for this conversation that Doom 2 was made super fast and is pretty decent all things considered.  |
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dn
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the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Jul 31, 2022 14:13:44 GMT -5
Always preferred episodes over... whatever was being attempted in doom 2.
In fact, doom 2's lack of climatic boss battles is frankly baffling from a design standpoint.
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shibainumaster
Doomer
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Post by shibainumaster on Jul 31, 2022 20:29:33 GMT -5
Episodic levels feel much more organic, but ones that are just bundled toghether with no coherency may offer variety. It's a preference thing, probably.
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Post by lunchlunch on Jul 31, 2022 20:44:30 GMT -5
On a similar note, I would much rather play a short mappack than a megawad.
I will never ever finish another megawad. It's too many maps, especially when half of those maps have magnum opus syndrome, and the other half are just filler.
Normalize five-map PWADs.
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shibainumaster
Doomer
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Post by shibainumaster on Aug 1, 2022 3:39:49 GMT -5
On a similar note, I would much rather play a short mappack than a megawad. I will never ever finish another megawad. It's too many maps, especially when half of those maps have magnum opus syndrome, and the other half are just filler. Normalize five-map PWADs. The best is when people make an episdode replacement. 8 or 10 levels. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2022 6:23:24 GMT -5
Episodes for me. Why Id strayed from the format I don't know, but Doom II definitely would have benefitted from episodes.
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Post by dr_st on Aug 1, 2022 8:14:23 GMT -5
In fact, doom 2's lack of climatic boss battles is frankly baffling from a design standpoint. This. You really need to have a boss battle every once in a while. Come to think about it - most FPS games that came after DOOM II - even if they did not have a hard division into episodes in the main menu - had a very clear division, typically accompanied by a meaningful boss encounter. Hexen, Quake II, Daikatana, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Doom 3 are some examples that come to mind. DOOM II (and Final DOOM) really seem to be rather unique in this regard. |
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Aug 1, 2022 8:27:44 GMT -5
The archvile seriously deserved its own dead simple
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Post by dr_st on Aug 1, 2022 9:11:34 GMT -5
The archvile seriously deserved its own dead simple It sort of got it, 12 (or 18) times over, as MAP11 of Plutonia.  |
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