Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2022 21:06:06 GMT -5
I can appreciate purely vanilla maps and all. But I think you have to be somewhat mentally retarded to not appreciate the work that goes into gameplay mods to the point that you are against them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2022 23:30:54 GMT -5
I have used gameplay mods in the past. However, since I prefer to use PrBoom+ (or Chocolate-Doom for vanilla dooming) nowadays I haven't used them anymore for quite a while.
I am not against the mods (although I disagree with you mental retardation argument as well), but to me, having to download new versions of GzDoom that are released quite often really discourages using that port. And if one is not playing the port, how do one discovers mods that are primarly made for it? Ditto with the reverse: playing all the hot mods would require to keep GzDoom up to date.
Anyway, the argument looks like was made for the purpose of making barrier to entry discussion low. Anyone can have an opinion, and expressing is easy when no research is required to be done to participate.
So, which mods do YOU recommend then?
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Post by switchblade on Apr 19, 2022 8:20:38 GMT -5
When I first discovered ZDoom in 2005 or '06, I collected and played wads ranging from vanilla and advanced for the next two years until I started to settle back to vanilla with DOSBox. I guess some players eventually grow numb to limit-removing wads -and mods and want to challenge themselves with the original game rules and limits.
Nowadays I only return for the UDoom and Heretic episode playthroughs, other doom engine games, single-map wads and multiplayer.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Apr 19, 2022 9:14:01 GMT -5
I really enjoy watching gameplay mods be played with doomer boards project. They really do enhance the experience sometimes (if the user picks the right mod that complements the map)
Gameplay mods had to exist on the backbone of a wealth of pure vanilla maps with unmodified gameplay in which to cleanly play them with.
IMO its universally better for everyone that maps and gameplay mods exist independently so they can be mixed and matched without risk of errors in the functionality of the mods and/or errors with the functionality of the maps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2022 9:29:59 GMT -5
 *edit: since we have two bosses on the thread, just to be clear that i'm adressing Steven Shiva Tsung here.I do appreciate the effort, boss. In fact, Brutal Doom was the reason for bringing me back into Doom. So there's that. I might be something of a purist now, but i'm not a elitist - anyone should play the way they want and don't give a shit for what retards like me thinks anyway. But back then, it was not that easy for me to let go the enhancements that gameplay mods or even ZDoom brought to the table - so my journey discovering the other "facets of Doom" was pretty slow; i went from Brutal Doom to Complex Doom to Beautiful Doom and then once i've registered on DW is when i've got familiarized with the different source ports, map formats, etc. I didn't even understanded well enouh what vanilla was, at the time - i've got curious about it mainly because of FreeDoom; that was shifting direction from Boom to vanilla. And once i've experimented that sweet flavor, i was hooked. But i like to poke some fun at gameplay mods or at the GZ family, like i did on my conversation with ivandobrovski , just to larp as a purist asshole. In reality, i don't care. And as far as mapping goes, it's just my personal preference to go for strict vanilla + dehacked, as it provides what i want. No to mention that i didn't really enjoyed that indecent proposal of losing yourself into detailing madness that limit-removing brings, but i must confess that i'm a little bit bi curious regarding Boom. Specifically, for the good ol' Boom 2.02 - as i think that it balances really well the best of both worlds for my tastes: a mix between new features and not let yourself go too crazy in order for your shit to run as smooth as possible on DOS. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2022 10:58:07 GMT -5
For me I think my appreciation of "vanilla" has more to do with aesthetic than any mechanics. For example, my port of choice when not running gameplay mods is Doom Retro, because it specifically sticks to that DOS game aesthetic while adding features that wouldn't be out of place in a mid 90s FPS (a slightly higher resolution, translucency on certain sprites, drop shadows on enemies, correct blood splatters for cacodemons and hell knights, water that bobs up and down slightly). It's certainly not vanilla but it feels like a polished version of it, and that's really nice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2022 13:50:14 GMT -5
I like Doom Retro too, for pretty much the same reasons. Crispy Doom and Woof (the latter if Boom compability is required) are my other go-to ports.
When I discovered that people were making Doom maps on the internet around 2012 I was impressed with Zdoom and GZdoom maps and the gameplay modifications that was around back then. Over time I really came to appreciate the original gameplay though and I consider it far superior (with warts and all). When I run Doom using GZdoom I think it feels like a different game entirely - even in the software renderer. It doesn't help that the GZdoom standard settings look like shit, so if you're making a map you don't really have any control over how it will appear as many people won't change to something better.
As for the original query, I'm assuming we're talking about gzdoom gameplay modifications, as opposed to dehacked stuff (which usually line up well with the original gameplay). If so, I say that they can be awesome in their own right, but I'm uninterested and prefer 'vanilla' or at most boom these days.
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vorpal
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Post by vorpal on Apr 19, 2022 18:07:00 GMT -5
IMO its universally better for everyone that maps and gameplay mods exist independently so they can be mixed and matched without risk of errors in the functionality of the mods and/or errors with the functionality of the maps. I wish this was the mainstream point of view, but it seems standard procedure the last few years for any major set to also have its own gameplay modifications... which prevents me from both a vanilla experience, or firing up my favorite soup of gameplay mods. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2022 23:57:20 GMT -5
I like wads having dehacked enemies, so your "universal" standards about not mixing maps and mods don't apply to me.
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