UDMF, is it worth it?

As far as I'm aware every DBP is standard limit-removing Doom 2 format. The fancy stuff like in Auger;Zenith is accomplished through dehacked.

"full 3d" is absolutely possible both in Doom, and in Doom-in-Hexen.

The list is intended as the best format for each item, not the only one. Scripting is possible even in Boom but it is not as feature-rich or simple as other formats.

Another way to phrase it would have been: "If you want X, the best choice is Y"

and i want to also say that udmf is worth it. its very good and nice to use

btw are you looking for a mapping video guide? I've been thinking about making one for a long time. I'm pretty sure I could do it. it's just an enormous amount of work, and i gotta block out a lot of time to make it happen.

I like to work in Hexen format most, but I try to make levels more in vanilla whether limit-removing or not, unless I need Hexen format for something. And I like decorate things.

One thing I keep in mind is multiplayer accessibility.
The big three options for online multiplayer are Zandronum, Odamex, and ZDaemon.
Only Zandronum supports UDMF and 3D sector transfers and Decorate and is most demanding for performance with a lot of players, but it plays pretty damn well and good.
Odamex and ZDaemon being based on a much older ZDoom do not have UDMF or 3D sector transfers.
Odamex has the best performance supporting the most players to the point of ridiculousness. Odamex has also been fine-tuned to be totally vanilla Doom demo compatible, its dehacked support has been upgraded/expanded, and now it has a Decohack that works in conjunction with its dehacked.
Zandronum and ZDaemon both support player skins but it bugs me how you see some people always using the bullshit junky ones that are only funny the first time. All three support Hexen format. There's older hacky ways we did 3D bridges without 3D sector transfers with slotted looking use of mid textures and invisible bridge things to stand on.

Then there's multiple options for up to 4 player splitscreen so you can have some fun with friends sitting on the couch.
Multiple-instanced LZDoom (hardest to set up, but greater capabilities than Zandronum since it's based on a newer GZDoom) - played this with friends on a few occasions.
Official Doom Classic (vanilla format only, but limits are raised and dehacked is supported) - tested but haven't played with anyone yet.
Banana Split fork of Eternity Engine - supports UDMF but not Hexen format. Can use ACS scripts in either UDMF or vanilla formats though. Its Eternity Definition Files (reminiscent of old dosDoom/Edge Doom Definition Files) have a lot of capabilities and some Decorate-like format incorporated in. Unfortunately I just don't like how the port plays and EDF editing feels like a pain compared to more straight forward Decorate and zmapinfo. Even Linguica complains about janky mouse control. I've edited for it but don't plan to do any more for it. I never tested out its splitscreen play except for playing back multiplayer demos.

There's one other way, I played four player but with two computers - Doom Legacy. Back in the day when computers still had serial ports
(though only necessary for two mice per a comp), brought a comp over neighborhood friends' house, networked the two together combined with its two player splitscreen for a 4 player game. We deathmatched in GothicDM, either 1 or 2. And yeah, it's possible for all four people to have a mouse. You plug the second one in the serial port for each comp. I think Legacy only supports vanilla format, but please correct me if I'm wrong. There might be some obscure abandoned fork that supported Hexen format but I'm not sure. Supports Boom editing features and I think some kind of scripting (different kinds of scripting depending on the version). Doesn't have ZDoom's 3D sector transfers but has its own 3D floor specials.

There's some other old obscure 4 player WDMP port that's very vanilla like doom2.exe. Tested it but good luck setting up playable controls for even 3 players.


As Ketmar said, 3D is possible in any format.
In vanilla format there's Legacy compatible 3D floors.
Zandronum, LZDoom, and GZDoom can use the 3D sector transfer in Hexen or UDMF format. Don't think you can use that special in vanilla format but you can use the Legacy compatible one in vanilla format with them. Unfortunately Doom Builder seems to only render a preview of the regular ZDoom 3D sector transfer in its 3D view and not the Legacy one.
Something cool about UDMF is a sector can have multiple tags which is handy for multiple 3D floors over each other. Unfortunately the previous version of Zandronum didn't support those multiple tags for sectors and I don't know if the new version does. So I've just been using more tag numbers with more 3D sector transfers. UDMF also has much more options for lighting and slopes and various things. Unfortunately some of the lighting doesn't work in Zandronum (at least the previous version), when I wanted to make a pit that darkens towards blackness as you go down it. One drawback is editing is going to be slower since you have so many options in your face and main simple attributes such as floor/ceiling heights and textures are divided into separate tabs you gotta click between.

Here is an amazing Classic deathmatch Redux pack by KevvyLava.
www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/114666-classic-deathmatch-redux
Or direct download bypassing DW:
www.dropbox.com/s/ubnixn812lxujc6/KevinDM-F.zip?dl=0

It's surprisingly vanilla format with Legacy-compatible 3D floors. So it's apparently compatible with either Doom Legacy, or Zandronum or newer ZDooms. Unfortunately it's not Odamex or ZDaemon compatible. His map22 (E3M6) Mt. Erebus looks similar to the normal map until something amazing happens. I was really surprised it wasn't done with scripting in Hexen or UDMF format.

KevinDM-F.wad has a couple issues though. The Heretic map23 Guard Tower has some nonexistent textures referenced (showing up as errors in the console) and using Lone Alpha's replacement fireblu (like I have in D1EntHng.wad) would alleviate the problem for people experiencing fireblu inflicted lag. Though he also used fireblu for an opaque gateway in Pandemonium.


Here's something crazy in Hexen format with decorate things and 3D sectors, I put together combining the Tower of Babel with NieMaMordy's map Engine3000 that feels like you're on top of it (probably unintentionally) from Twango1 (which I worked on).
www.mediafire.com/file/6grvjzoe17wqfjm/Babel3K.zip/file


Another option for effective functional full 3D, is use of portals. I've done vertical and horizontal in GZDoom UDMF (in Realms of Cronos for the game Hexen), but there was some oddness even though I did it exactly right and I think read something about enemies not working well with the horizontal ones. I often saw a flicker of my own player sprite while walking through the horizontal and sometimes the vertical (which I combined with suspended swimmable water) would warp me in the wrong direction. And Eternity has some of the most advanced portal abilities, used in the project Heartland, though it lacks a simple 3D sector transfer.

Another thing to consider is horizontally moving structure or polyobs introduced by Hexen. Unfortunately they're normally infinitely tall, so they're not normally anything you can stand on and ride. Just moving walls, swinging/sliding doors staying within the same floor and ceiling heights. There's been clever appearances of ridable trains and without polyobs. However, it seems K8vavoom now has more 3D polyobs you can ride on.

There's been some crazy stuff in some experiemental fork of ZDoom, I'm not sure how much is implemented in the current ports or in what way. But I think by combining portals and polyobs, someone made complex horizontally ridable structure.



Not sure all the capabilities of K8vavoom, but Ketmar has posted a bunch of stuff on his topic and it's pretty damn impressive, supporting all three formats I think.

So to sums things up, vanilla has the widest compatibility. Any ZDoom-based port supports Hexen format. UDMF is only for newer ZDooms/GZDoom/LZDoom/Zandronum and Eternity. But there's actually different headings within the txt format whether its ZUDMF or EUDMF, though they seem otherwise identical.   Except Eternity doesn't seem to have any colored lighting.   You can use ACS scripts to set or change colored lighting for sectors in Hexen or UDMF format, or in UDMF format you can just simply set a sector's colored lighting as simply as its light level and textures.

So Hexen format, your best multiplayer options are Zandronum/Odamex/ZDaemon for online and LZDoom for multiple-instance
splitscreen. UDMF format your multiplayer options are Zandronum for online, and LZDoom or Eternity for splitscreen.

Most ports all together support some online peer to peer to peer multiplayer, but it takes a lot of setting up and organizing.

I just opened up map01 of kevinDM-F.wad in Ultimate Doom Builder to see.
In vanilla format, make a dummy sector out in the void somewhere. Whatever you want the 3D floor or bridge to be, its bottom you see from below is going to be the height and texture settings of the dummy sector. The top of it you can stand on, is going to being the ceiling height and texture. Choose any line that's a part of the dummy sector. Set its middle texture to what you want the sides of the 3D structure to be and set its special to 281 and tag it to whatever sector you want the 3D structure to appear in. Doom Builder might say 281 is unknown but it should work in newer ZDooms and Doom Legacy. Looking at map22 it seems line special 304 makes swimmable liquid in the shape of the 3D structure.

In Hexen or UDMF format use line special 160 Sector Set 3D Floor. And with that one you can set various types and flags.   Using this one in Hexen and UDMF format, Doom Builder will actually render the 3D structure in its preview mode.   The Tab key turns the rending on and off.

No, I was just looking at this youtube channel which has very funny videos, then I checked this particular video and wondered about this UDMF.
I am familiar with the basic vanilla mapping stuff, so don't look for guide, however my brother was talking to me and was asking if I could do a guide. I was thinking of making short videos with very basic things, just like how to do a door, how to split a sector, etc.. but I also got lazy with that.

I would only use UDMF for portals or if I wanted to do something with hub worlds. Something like Star Road from Super Mario World in a wad with multiple secret maps which you could then link together on the hub somehow. I think this would only be possible with ACS because you would need specific exits other than the two you are normally provided in any classic compatibility (cl2, cl9, mbf, mbf21).

Even cl21 I am starting to wonder if I actually need any of the features there (not really into all of the modded weapons etc). So really just for the ability to have unlimited custom monsters is all I would use this for.