40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 4, 2022 22:14:14 GMT -5
1993: >> Doom 1: 27 levels = $40.00 $40.00 / 27 maps = $1.48 per map >> Shareware rebate 9 levels * $1.48 = $13.32 value distributed for free. 2022: One Humanity: 1 level = $5.47 $5.47 / 1 map = $5.47 $1.48 to $5.47 = +269.59% increase per doom map
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Post by ivandobrovski on Mar 4, 2022 22:26:39 GMT -5
That's... actually pretty crazy when you think about it.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 4, 2022 23:33:49 GMT -5
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Post by JadingTsunami on Mar 4, 2022 23:38:15 GMT -5
Because that 1993 dollar is worth $1.95 2022 dollars, the inflation-adjusted price is:
$40*1.95/27 = $2.89/map
Your investments in Doom maps would yield ~1.89x real return.
However, the US S&P index was at $865 in 1993 and is now $4373, with an inflation-adjusted return of 2.59x.
Unfortunately investing in Doom maps did not outperform the S&P 500.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 5:49:23 GMT -5
[~]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 6:49:39 GMT -5
Sigil was free, how does that factor into your calculations?
Also, One Humanity doesn't cost €5. You donate €5 to a good cause and get a free Romero map as an incentive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 8:44:57 GMT -5
Sigil was free, how does that factor into your calculations? Didn't he hide Sigil behind the paywall for a month?
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
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Post by joe-ilya on Mar 5, 2022 10:06:59 GMT -5
Sigil was free, how does that factor into your calculations? Didn't he hide Sigil behind the paywall for a month? No, he didn't, the only way you could buy Sigil was when he packaged it with other physical goods and the Buckethead soundtrack. Otherwise you could download it for free on his website.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 10:28:53 GMT -5
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 5, 2022 11:04:09 GMT -5
Also, One Humanity doesn't cost €5. You donate €5 to a good cause and get a free Romero map as an incentive. The incentive to donate is from the harm done by the war. You or anyone can donate €5 or more to the redcross directly or support those devastated by the war in any other way, but that doesnt get you access to the map. The map is withheld until you go through the channel romero created. Romero says give your money to me first then ill give that money to another channel, and then, presumably without overhead or administrative costs and fees, that money will eventually reach those effected by the war who need it.And if youre in the doom community and dont have the money, or a payment method, or other reasons to not trust your money with John Romero or the Red Cross middlemen between the actual victims, you have to be surrounded by social pressure of those talking about what it was like to play it, how good it feels to support a good cause, and be alienated from community for not getting a map everyone is talking about.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 11:19:15 GMT -5
Also, One Humanity doesn't cost €5. You donate €5 to a good cause and get a free Romero map as an incentive. The incentive to donate is from the harm done by the war. You or anyone can donate €5 or more to the redcross directly or support those devastated by the war in any other way, but that doesnt get you access to the map. The map is withheld until you go through the channel romero created. Romero says give your money to me first then ill give that money to another channel, and then, presumably without overhead or administrative costs and fees, that money will eventually reach those effected by the war who need it.And if youre in the doom community and dont have the money, or a payment method, or other reasons to not trust your money with John Romero or the Red Cross middlemen between the actual victims, you have to be surrounded by social pressure of those talking about what it was like to play it, how good it feels to support a good cause, and be alienated from community for not getting a map everyone is talking about. You're not entitled to play it. Or you could wait for Sigil 2. However, the readme clearly states that non-commercial sharing of this WAD is allowed. So you can give it to your friends. Just don't sell it or repackage it. I understand €5 is a lot of money for some people but that is always an issue in gaming. Maybe it would have been better as a pay what you want kinda deal, like with a humble bundle. But I don't fault Romero for giving people an incentive to donate and using the weight of his name / celebrity status to get people to donate. If anything, it brings some people back into Doom who haven't played it in a long time. PS: I don't think the map is great. I could have used some more polish, though it is indistinguishably Romero, but the fact that this map will be in Sigil 2 and not some speedmap he made specifically for this cause does take away a lot from this. PS2: and yes, I have filled up my car with goods to donate and have donated money as well, before Romero's map
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nnn✓ork
Doomer
Dr. Noisystein
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Post by nnn✓ork on Mar 5, 2022 11:29:16 GMT -5
ayy, i'll back up Pilstoolkip on this one:
Damn, I thought I was a cynical devil here. I hope we don't get too bogged down on this stuff tho. I don't know how to fly drones with pizza, beer, and medical supplies; or shelter to people directly, so I did the "donate separately and pirate the wad" thing actually - after a day of shower thoughts.
I appreciate a healthy amount of cynicism tho. I try to be a "glass half full" mindset, so I look at (potentially maligned) situations like this thread as "practice for when things get even fuckier".
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 5, 2022 12:40:18 GMT -5
You're not entitled to play it. Yes, obviously. This is communicated by the price tag. Hence this thread. Youve been in the community for a while. Youve had to see someone hyping up their new megawad project theyre working on that they just started one map on that never actually gets finished. The news isnt going to write articles after the transaction to red cross happens. The pc gaming news feed is already flooded with his name just for saying "this is what im going to do." Crowdfunding is so widespread, and unless youre using a service that facilitates that, you really dont have any accountability for what you do with the money you receive in 'donations' on your own website. Nobody is watching it. John Romero has already received all the congratulations on social media for it and free press. People who 'donated' money to his fund already feel good about it. They did something good and got an exclusive romero map yeahhh baby. But theres no way to know if theres overhead or if hes gonna pocket some or all of it. The efforts that specifically help those who are hurt by the war are immeasurable and mostly invisible unless something actually really good comes out of it. And in an ongoing crisis like this, its definitely going to be invisible. All we got is to trust his word because he made doom. It would be cooler to make a large ~10,000€ donation in advance, to guarantee that red cross is getting money and the ukrainian people are being helped asap in this time of emergency. Then run the crowdfunding through his doom after to replace the money you donated. That way he would have to make sure the map is good in order to make a decent return. You dont get as much social media buzz for that though, and thats whats most important. If it was real philanthropy, you'd just eat the costs even if people dont reach your fundraising goal, just like everyone donating has to. By doing it the way he's doing, the ukrainian people have to wait for: 1. when the crowdfunding period is over 2. when/if John Romero makes the donation 3. Red cross to receive the funds 4. Red cross to allocate the funds towards aid 5. to deliver said aid to the people That time adds up. Also, the volume of his donation is measured by what other people donate. Not what he donates. Lastly, because no money actually gets to the war victims yet, people donating arent actually donating directly to the cause. They donate towards a cloudy mush of a factors: 1. how badly they want the map 2. the guilt felt for not helping enough for those effected by the war 3. the social pressure to know what its like to play romeros map at the time people are actively playing and talking about it Its all really messy but its the format people like because it makes everyone feel good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 13:22:39 GMT -5
You're not entitled to play it. Yes, obviously. This is communicated by the price tag. Hence this thread. Youve been in the community for a while. Youve had to see someone hyping up their new megawad project theyre working on that they just started one map on that never actually gets finished. The news isnt going to write articles after the transaction to red cross happens. The pc gaming news feed is already flooded with his name just for saying "this is what im going to do." Crowdfunding is so widespread, and unless youre using a service that facilitates that, you really dont have any accountability for what you do with the money you receive in 'donations' on your own website. Nobody is watching it. John Romero has already received all the congratulations on social media for it and free press. People who 'donated' money to his fund already feel good about it. They did something good and got an exclusive romero map yeahhh baby. But theres no way to know if theres overhead or if hes gonna pocket some or all of it. The efforts that specifically help those who are hurt by the war are immeasurable and mostly invisible unless something actually really good comes out of it. And in an ongoing crisis like this, its definitely going to be invisible. All we got is to trust his word because he made doom. It would be cooler to make a large ~10,000€ donation in advance, to guarantee that red cross is getting money and the ukrainian people are being helped asap in this time of emergency. Then run the crowdfunding through his doom after to replace the money you donated. That way he would have to make sure the map is good in order to make a decent return. You dont get as much social media buzz for that though, and thats whats most important. If it was real philanthropy, you'd just eat the costs even if people dont reach your fundraising goal, just like everyone donating has to. By doing it the way he's doing, the ukrainian people have to wait for: 1. when the crowdfunding period is over 2. when/if John Romero makes the donation 3. Red cross to receive the funds 4. Red cross to allocate the funds towards aid 5. to deliver said aid to the people That time adds up. Also, the volume of his donation is measured by what other people donate. Not what he donates. Lastly, because no money actually gets to the war victims yet, people donating arent actually donating directly to the cause. They donate towards a cloudy mush of a factors: 1. how badly they want the map 2. the guilt felt for not helping enough for those effected by the war 3. the social pressure to know what its like to play romeros map at the time people are actively playing and talking about it Its all really messy but its the format people like because it makes everyone feel good. I think you're looking far too deep into this. This isn't some conspiracy. Does he enjoy the press? Sure. Does he benefit from it? A little bit. Does it matter? No, not really. Yeah it would be cool if he doubled the donations But he will give 100% of the proceeds to these causes. If he pockets the money himself, he's not just eligible to be sued, but to be criminally prosecuted for fraud.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 5, 2022 14:03:06 GMT -5
he can be sued if it was easy to verify if what he was doing is illegal. The risk of getting 'caught' and paying penalties in a crowdfunding campaign is actually very lowHes receiving the money through his own website. he's not bound to any terms and conditons that other crowdfunding platforms use, and theres no transparency about whether he actually does it or not. If his intentions are good why does he have to do it this way? anyway, sites like gofraudme say its too damn easy for people to scam on these crowdfunding platforms even with the protections in place. Who is going to be the autistic Doom superfan that constantly badgers Romero and called Red Cross to make sure the money got to where he said he was gonna put it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 14:05:46 GMT -5
Can't remember when you've been so based, 40oz.
Yeah, donating with extra steps is kinda lame. If you would like to help the victims of putin's aggression why would you do this when a game developer said so? Especially when this developer hasn't announced how much he donated himself.
And why is everybody praising him? He doesn't sacrifice anything here except one mediocre 15 min map which will eventually be released for free anyways. All thing he will get is only sweet sweet social points (Romero LOVES being LOVED), it's 100% win move without any sacrifice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 17:15:15 GMT -5
he can be sued if it was easy to verify if what he was doing is illegal. The risk of getting 'caught' and paying penalties in a crowdfunding campaign is actually very lowHes receiving the money through his own website. he's not bound to any terms and conditons that other crowdfunding platforms use, and theres no transparency about whether he actually does it or not. If his intentions are good why does he have to do it this way? anyway, sites like gofraudme say its too damn easy for people to scam on these crowdfunding platforms even with the protections in place. Who is going to be the autistic Doom superfan that constantly badgers Romero and called Red Cross to make sure the money got to where he said he was gonna put it? That's what I said, he can be sued, and he can be prosecuted for fraud. The issue with these crowdfunding campaigns and platforms, is that they're not charities. They're people collecting money for himself. Under EU Law (and he's in Ireland, mind you), if you claim any % of proceedings go to charity, you're committing fraude if you don't go through. That's partly true because these types of donations are tax deductible for the donators themselves. I know some US companies that were fined in the EU because they sold products there claiming 100% of proceedings would go to charity, but they were withholding internal production costs like salaries, while only external costs (like shipping) are excluded from that clause.
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Post by mayhemicdestrvctor on Apr 4, 2022 8:41:50 GMT -5
this prices are horrible. why does john romero do this ?? i dont get it , why cant he make a doom wad selling and then the donation site next to that so people can say , ok i play this wad but if i want to i can make a donation to him so he can send this money to ukraine
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