Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 22:51:28 GMT -5
There is only one stance sane Russian man can take, and that is to condemn his government actions, the aggressive war Putin's regime is waging on Ukraine with the goal of depriving it of sovereignity.
Putin's regime already has undertook multiple acts state terrorism against its own people in the past - indeed has the whole branch in secret service dedicated specifically to that, has undertook multiple acts of war and squashed legitimate protests in Belarus and Kazakhstan, has annexed Crimea in 2014, and is now destroying Ukraine as we speak while threatening world with retaliation (including use of nuclear weapons arsenal) should it "interfere".
How can we stop this shit?
For those hoping anti-war protests could do it, I have bad news. Peaceful protests didn't even work in Canada, it didn't work in Belarus, it didn't work multiple times in Russia already (the protests againsts imprisonment of Navalny and imprisonment of governor of Novosibirsk, Sergei Furgal, were attended by many anti-putinists, in fact, the protests against imprisonment of Navalny were anti-Putin first and foremost as not every participant in it actually trusted Navalny), they were squashed, people were targeted - fired from their jobs, imprisoned, fined extraordinarly, etc.
There is a purpose behind anti-war protests in Russia, but it is not to change Kremlin's mind. The purpose of anti-war protests in Russia is to declare to a world the position of Russian people, especially those daring to protest. No doubt they will come at cost to anyone participating in them - the government will NOT stop at merely arresting people. Violent protests must be ruled out though - they are futile acts that government has the power to suppress at no cost to its military machine directed at Ukraine.
But to halt Russian's military machine - what could do it? I have ideas, but they're obviously dangerous as fuck to speak out. For sure to stop the war will take a chaos to erupt all over Russia. But, basically, the new evil regime (like that of Nazi Germany) is here, already, so here is a test of whether you can actually do something about it.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Feb 24, 2022 23:26:45 GMT -5
I was reading this article today www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/24/first-thing-putin-declares-war-russia-invades-ukraineIt states: “ [...] he [Putin] announced a special military operation to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, [...]“ That tells me a lot about why you and I are having such heavy clashes about politics. Putin uses antifascism as an excuse to make the government more totalitarian, and that the conflicts we are having are your way of protesting the actions of Putins regime. I completely understand that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 23:39:16 GMT -5
The actual clashes are the result of Putin using the whole happenings in the West as excuse to implement policies that "mirror" the Western policies, making live in Russia unbearable, while the West gets progressively harder for me to ever adjust. For every "woke" action West takes, Putin introduces a perversion of it in his own country, with progressive values to be replaced with traditionalism, but the policies being the same (and Western policies are actually piece of shit). And he makes good at following international treaties on anti-terrorism, etc. to, then uses those policies to target his political enemies.
The actual anti-terrorism measures in the West are already a grand hoax that makes exception of the legal system that enable to trample human rights of those "suspected" of terrorism. And Putin takes full advantage of that. Basically, the West has opened a Pandora's box, and regimes like Putin's and Chinese profitted greatly from using its powers for their own purposes. Everything West does rings back in Russia. All Western policies that are implemented against "hate speech", etc. are reimplemented in Russia to squash dissent.
Yes, Putin perverted the cause of antifascism too. But your antifas aren't a sane movement either. They did, however, enable Putin to claim legitimacy in Western eyes at least prior to the war.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 23:52:14 GMT -5
However, I should say that it best not to continue those side discussions right now - the focus should be on stopping the war. People are dying on both sides. Maybe there is a way?
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GRUG
Doomer
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Post by GRUG on Feb 25, 2022 1:20:40 GMT -5
I've been following the Ukraine situation since the Euromaidan riots of 2013. I'm going to drop my right-leaning American perspective on this situation.
I'm not surprised that the tensions between Ukraine and Russia erupted into an official invasion. What I'm surprised about is how long it took for it to happen. I thought it would have happened immediately after the annexation of Crimea. But I guess Putin had some other plan.
Anyway, here's a brief overview of what had happened: The Euromaidan revolution was an organized coup to remove Pro-Russian friendly President Viktor Yanukovych from office, and shoe-in a NATO/EU friendly globalist puppet Volodymyr Zelenskyy. From my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the support for the new regime was somewhere 50-50... Also to my understanding (thanks to my Ukrainian friend back home for teaching me about Ukraine's ethnic history), the western side of Ukraine is predominately ethnically Ukrainian, while the eastern side is predominantly ethnically Russian. Why does this matter? Because shortly after the coup, two regions (which I believe are called oblasts) from Donbas (Donetsk and Luhansk) succeeded from the Ukrainian country to form their own independent states. These two regions have majority and historically ethnic Russian demographics. Long story short, a civil war started and has been ongoing for 7+ years. At this point Putin has put his foot down. This appears to be a war over multiple issues that I'll list below, and please let me know if I'm missing anything.
1) Ethnic tensions (Ukrainians vs Russians)
2) NATO treaty violations (which threaten Russia)
3) Globalism woke ideology (pro vs anti)
What to make of this? Americans (as well as other European countries in the West) have no business meddling in this shit. Only our politicians like as Biden have political oligarchic ties to Ukraine are interested in meddling. I personally don't support the Ukrainian government. It's a corrupt US/NATO puppet state. Not to mention, they've been waging an aggressive war in Donbas that has resulted in the deaths of ethnic Russians (men, women, and children).
I really question Putin being the aggressor in this scenario. And for the record, this is a conflict that is strictly between Ukraine and Russia. I do hope this war ends soon. I don't have animosity towards ethnic Ukrainians or Russians. Most Ukrainians and Russians that I've met in person were wonderful people.
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GRUG
Doomer
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Post by GRUG on Feb 25, 2022 1:48:14 GMT -5
I was reading this article today www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/24/first-thing-putin-declares-war-russia-invades-ukraineIt states: “ [...] he [Putin] announced a special military operation to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, [...]“ That tells me a lot about why you and I are having such heavy clashes about politics. Putin uses antifascism as an excuse to make the government more totalitarian, and that the conflicts we are having are your way of protesting the actions of Putins regime. I completely understand that. It's funny you say that, because the official government of Ukraine has denounced neo-nazis. However, there are rogue neo-nazi militias (such as this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion) that are fighting against the Separatists from Donbas. Another thing that's a bit strange... why are neo-nazi's keen on their country joining the EU? I thought neo-nazi's were euro skeptics and against liberal EU policies? I mean not to mention the current president of Ukraine is an ethnic Jew. And also, if let's just "hypothetically" say that Ukraine is a neo-nazi country. Wouldn't the political left be in support of the Russian invasion? Why exactly is the political left siding with Ukraine if they have neo-nazi's running the government? Just seems very strange in my opinion. Another parallel in history: Hitler invaded Poland in 1939 to annex lost territories which had ethnic German populations (post WW1 territory losses). Putin's military invasion to protect ethnic Russians in the east of Ukraine and in Crimea is very similar to what Hitler did. It just find it strange that Russian government is saying they are fighting to de-nazify Ukraine, yet many Ukrainians are also comparing Putin to Hitler. My brain hurts trying to comprehend this malarkey.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 4:26:34 GMT -5
How can we stop this shit? Никак. Вся эта поебень готовилась годами, планомерно, и в все тонкости\договоренности были заключены в кулуарах относительно недавно. Все эти "ответки" это просто ебаный фарс. Укры получающие пизды, наши огребающие пизды - это тоже фарс, но с реальными потерями людских жизней просто за нихуя. За чужой кошель, а не чью-то свободу\дерьмократию\и прочий бред. The purpose of anti-war protests in Russia is to declare to a world the position of Russian people, especially those daring to protest. It's not like it going to work either way, just remember that for politicians worldwide we are nothing but sub-human, as we were for nazis back in 40s (and how it ended for them?) This shitt have erupted, everyone was aware, was there a way to avoid all this? yes, but, why? It's not like somebody would weight the human life more than a coin in their greacy pockets. Don't expect all this idiocy to end up soon enough, it's just getting full speed aead. Another parallel in history: Hitler invaded Poland in 1939 to annex lost territories which had ethnic German populations (post WW1 territory losses). Putin's military invasion to protect ethnic Russians in the east of Ukraine and in Crimea is very similar to what Hitler did. It just find it strange that Russian government is saying they are fighting to de-nazify Ukraine, yet many Ukrainians are also comparing Putin to Hitler. My brain hurts trying to comprehend this malarkey. Eh, don't try to comprehend this, neither us, slavs, can do it sometimes, really.
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Post by ketmar on Feb 25, 2022 4:27:49 GMT -5
What to make of this? Americans (as well as other European countries in the West) have no business meddling in this shit. yeah. except that there was a document CD/1285, where USA was one of the sides that promised UA protection in exchange of getting rid of nuclear weapons. but hey, who cares, right? there is really zero difference between RF, US, or UK: any contract where they are one of the sides can be safely considered void from the moment of signing. so of course, "this is a conflict that is strictly between Ukraine and Russia". typical USA rhethoric. now go figure, why nobody really love yankees.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 7:37:31 GMT -5
Russian government is saying they are trying to de-nazify Ukraine is because they're trying to paint themselves as good people. The men they call nazis are those Ukrainians that are against Russia, thus being "Ukrainian nationalists". Russian views Ukrainian people who want independence from Russia as nationalists, or, more strongly-worded, nazists.
And it's called de-nazification because West would love de-nazification. Never thought however Putin would confuse anybody. Don't believe what Putin says, it's all lies of a politicians. It's the same when Trudeau called truckers of the Freedom Convoy far-right, fringe, etc..
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 25, 2022 8:56:25 GMT -5
Russian government is saying they are trying to de-nazify Ukraine is because they're trying to paint themselves as good people. yes exactly. "Were not the nazis, youre the nazis!" "No we fight nazis, YOURE being nazis" etc. etc.
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Post by Deathclaw886 on Feb 28, 2022 2:20:24 GMT -5
Prayers go out to all you Slavs (hell, the rest of the world at that) and i hope you are all safe.
and if any of you are Life of Boris fans such as myself, i am sure you felt the same Heartbreak hearing Boris talk so somberly in his newest video.
Ive heard things Putin said in the past that i agreed with, like how a mother is a mother and a father is a father, which was his response to woke culture and liberals saying "Men can get pregnant tooo!" but that doesnt mean i like the bastard, oh far from it. Just shows us that woke culture isnt just the biggest threat in the world..
stay safe all of you.
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Post by Deathclaw886 on Feb 28, 2022 2:23:14 GMT -5
Russian government is saying they are trying to de-nazify Ukraine is because they're trying to paint themselves as good people. The men they call nazis are those Ukrainians that are against Russia, thus being "Ukrainian nationalists". Russian views Ukrainian people who want independence from Russia as nationalists, or, more strongly-worded, nazists. And it's called de-nazification because West would love de-nazification. Never thought however Putin would confuse anybody. Don't believe what Putin says, it's all lies of a politicians. It's the same when Trudeau called truckers of the Freedom Convoy far-right, fringe, etc.. oh.. well disregard what i just said then about putin not being woke (calling other people nazis and nationalists is such a woke thing to say)... i have a tendency to overlook posts eheh. or maybe its just his mind melting from old age, i dunno
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2022 5:01:25 GMT -5
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Post by dr_st on Feb 28, 2022 5:38:53 GMT -5
I really do not understand the Nazi accusation by the Kremlin. It's an excuse aimed mostly inward as well as towards his international supporters, who just need some token "justification" to use whenever the issue is discussed in diplomatic circles. It's not something he really believes or expects anyone among his adversaries to believe. For years, Russia has made claims that the Ukraininan forces are systematically attacking innocent civilians in the pro-Russian areas of Donetsk and Luhansk. These claims were partially supported by locals. I don't know how much truth is in this, but let's assume some of it is true. A local military operation to protect/liberate those border areas, maybe annex them like they did with Crimea - can be seen as justified in certain context. However, how does this correlate with the massive attack from multiple directions on the entirety of Ukraine, air raids on every major city / military installation, tanks in Kiev, etc? Another justification frequently cited is that Russia simply doesn't want NATO expansion and NATO missiles next to its borders. While I am sure this is a big part of the picture, Putin chose not to focus on that in his declaration of war, but rather than on the fake made-up "de-nazification" excuse. This tells me it is just the standard expansionist war, in order to gain territory and resources.
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
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Post by dmdr on Feb 28, 2022 6:35:51 GMT -5
shit makes more sense if you realise that Alexsandr Dugin is very influential in Russia, and Dugin is a proponent of 'Eurasianism' ie. the creation of a global land empire centered around Russia rather than the global maritime empire centered around the US ('Atlanticism' -- which is what we have now). This is to say that Russia has territorial ambitions, is woke in the multicultural/expansionist sense, and nationalist forces are by definition their chief opposition. Thus why the 'right wing' Russian gov't slanders people by calling them Nazis, crushes their own nationalist right, and moves Central Asian gastarbeiters en masse into Moscow. Note that stupid fucking dickipedia calls all this 'fascist' while simultaneously quoting Dugin talking shit about the 'bourgeoisie' in the traditional Marxist manner. (fyi there are lots of Western 'right wing' dorks who think Eurasianism is great for some reason. presumably they've just got anti-Anglo ethic resentment -- not that Anglos really have anything to do with the hegemons any more, although yes we stupidly spilled our blood for their benefit a couple of centuries ago in exchange for short lived empire and the attendant 'glory' -- but who knows)
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GRUG
Doomer
30 year old boomer
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Post by GRUG on Feb 28, 2022 10:44:01 GMT -5
Ukraine has some neo-nazi militias that have been active since 2014 during the start of the civil war between the Ukrainian government and the separatists Russians from the Donbas region. Example: Azov Battalion en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion In my opinion, these "neo-nazis" are being used as useful idiots. I don't believe the majority of Ukraine is neo-nazi. Like you said, their Prime Minister is an ethnic Jew. The Ukrainian government is trying to build ties with the EU and NATO which I assume don't reflect the over arching interests of fringe neo-nazi groups. My guess is that there are still handfuls of extremely bitter Ukrainians against Russians since the Bolshevik era / Holodomor. I get this war has escalated into Russian invasion into the Ukraine, but for years I've heard nothing but crickets from people when the Ukrainian military has been shelling the Donbas region killing thousands of civilians. Does anybody not care about that? That's pretty devastating too in my opinion. All I've been hearing is "pray for Ukraine" but for years there's been nothing for the people of Donetsk and Luhansk.
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Post by ketmar on Feb 28, 2022 11:19:11 GMT -5
what a wonderful selective blindness! i'm amazed. so, what about CD/1285?
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GRUG
Doomer
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Post by GRUG on Feb 28, 2022 12:39:02 GMT -5
what a wonderful selective blindness! i'm amazed. so, what about CD/1285? Summarizing CD/1285: - Non-proliferation: The prevention of an increase or spread of something, especially the number of countries possessing nuclear weapons.
- Non-chauvinism: Exaggerated or aggressive patriotism.
- Deep reductions of nuclear weapons: Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons as a non-nuclear weapon state.
- (Condition # 2): Refrain from threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine (stipulation # 2)
- (Condition # 3): No economic coercion design to subordinate (stipulation # 3)
CD/1285 was predominately about the de-escalating nuclear expansion to Ukraine. This document was signed in effect after the fall of the Soviet Union. The West wanted to put a halt to ensure that the nuclear arms race of the cold war era was put to rest. That was the overarching goal of the West during the time this was signed. Ukraine was an economic trading ally of Russia prior to the Euromaidan coup of 2013-2014. That illegal overthrow of the once legitimate Ukrainian government which nobody wants to acknowledge happened. The EU supported this coup because having another puppet government would give more economic power to them, and less to Russia. link At this point the Russian government doesn't give a damn anymore about Refrain from threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine. They can probably wipe their ass with condition # 3 with that and throw it back at those who signed it. Just because some Western politicians and ex-Soviet politicians signed a post cold-war nuclear arms treaty, this becomes my problem? Yeah selective blindness.
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Post by ketmar on Feb 28, 2022 13:21:37 GMT -5
sure, it's not your problem. anything USA ever said or wrote is just a bullshit doesn't worth the paper it was written on. everybody know that, but thank you for openly admitting it.
of course, any your opinion is bullshit due to that, and any your words is a lie. go fuck yourself, fuckin' yankee.
p.s.: just in case, i have nothing against normal people, regardless of the country they are living in. but that talking ass is not a normal human being. and it did exactly what i wanted from it — started to talk like a politican. i'm done with it.
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GRUG
Doomer
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Posts: 701
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Post by GRUG on Feb 28, 2022 14:13:17 GMT -5
You made absolutely no attempt of rebuttal to anything I've posted. The only thing you did was you threw ad hominems like a true internet SPED. No intelligent posts just pure emotion like a little bitch. Oh God forbid some people from the USA are tired of meddling in foreign affairs that serve no interest to the average American! The USA needs to be international nannies to the world? Unbelievable the amount of sheer retardation that you post. My words are a lie? Your words hold no water whatsoever Pal.
No acknowledgement of the Ukrainian coup which lead Ukrainians and Russians into the quarrel they are in. Just "muh CD/1285!" over and over and over again.
"I'm done with it." HAHAHA ok then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 2:53:57 GMT -5
Russia not only must lose this war, it must also lose its current regime. Putin's army no longer targets only war objects, it's already destroying arbitrary part of cities in Ukraine. They're war criminals. I am saying 'they', because Putin does NOT have support of Russian people in reality. His party only won majority in state legislative body last autumn due to massive vote fraud in electronic format. They simply created fake accounts througn internet and used them to vote for Putin's party and their muppets. His rule is based on lies, fraud, corruption, physical force, torture, false confessions and stealth killings of opponents who dare to speak against him.
I have been monitoring news closely, even wasting a lot of my personal and work time. Ukrainian people do not want to be ruled by Putin or some kind of muppet regime. They're fighting for their freedom, whereas Russian soldiers has nothing to fight for, anyone who is 'fresh' and got there without wanting it is surrendering, some are willing to switch sides.
I have shed any "anti-maidan" beliefs after the events in Belarus, where vote fraud in presidential elections was made evident by massive protests. Since then, many Russians who have previously supported Putin (I didn't already even prior to that) have woke up to what kind of regime they live in. Putin's real support was at most 30% in September, 2022. When I used a taxi, one driver openly spoke about how no youngsters supported Putin. No one. No one I know admitted voting for changing Russian constitution - as my friend put it, even if someone did, it certainly not popular to say "you support pro-Putin change" - they have to keep it to themselves.
This is not 2014 anymore. Many gross human rights violations happened in Russia since 2014. Many people no longer have political views they had in 2014. It must come at no surprise then than Ukraine also changed, and that support for Putin is non-existent.
Putin's regime must be overthrown from within Russia. I pray that the military and perhaps his own security does it. The appropriate end for war is Gaddafi's execution reenacted on Putin.
P.S. I don't blame Americans who believe they shouldn't get involved or think "Ukraine's going their own way is not the good thing", you live far from here, and no matter what kind of research you might had in Russia-Ukraine situation, you probably don't know that much about internal Russia affairs, the unprecedented scale state terrorism that was going ever since 2012 and that was accelerated drastically in the last few years. But nobody fucking wants to live under this rule, and even those who support Putin would change their mind would they experience state targetting their children. Those who support Putin in Russia are the ones who don't know how to use Internet, or who believe anything official news say and consider all other news to be Western propaganda. They are the only ones who support this madman - they're indoctrinated and blind to any sort of truth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 4:47:16 GMT -5
>must lose this war Vigilant, I'll stop you right there, and would recommend to shut up, politely.
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Post by dr_st on Mar 1, 2022 14:50:18 GMT -5
@vigilantdoomer
Just wanted to say that I support everything you wrote in your last post. Being in Russia right now is hard, being in Ukraine is even harder. I hope and pray the people of both countries will find ways to end the madness.
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xeepeep
Banned
Forever
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Post by xeepeep on Mar 1, 2022 17:13:29 GMT -5
This whole war has me very conflicted. My friends in Ukraine are suffering, but on the other hand the West is absolutely shitting their pants, now that someone else's doing what they thought only they could do. It's making my boner stronger than when I look at pictures of Major Arlene.
And the best of all? My country is fucking neutral. Not even fucking Switzerland is neutral, that's how much they're shitting their pants.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by Gokuma on Mar 2, 2022 20:27:30 GMT -5
I really hate seeing Slavs kill each other over stupid power struggle bullshit and all around corruption, while no doubt certain people are profiting. I didn't expect this all out screwed up war, but I expected some continuing conflict ever since the Euromaidan coup perpetrated by the globalists. Since then there has been a three way conflict between their disingenuous agents who started the violence, the Ukrainian people, and the Russian government. Russia and Ukraine were getting along fine before that. Putin seems to have really shit the bed on this, but I don't trust a word out of Zelenskyy's mouth. Don't trust the US media. Don't trust the mainstream international media. Don't trust BBC. Don't trust the Russian media. Make no mistake. NATO is fucking evil. Back when they overthrew Kaddafi under false pretenses, they proceeded to bomb Libya's major water transport infrastructure cutting off vast regions and farmland from their main water supply. The next day they bombed the factory that makes the replacement pipes. The refugee crisis flooding Europe was caused by NATO. And with the chaos they left Libya in, there is once again a slave trade operating in northern Africa. Here's an article that was written back in December. jackwiedman.substack.com/p/war-drums?utm_source=url&s=rI have printed stuff from a Ukrainian band from several years ago within a couple years of the coup. Get a load of this psychotic shit.The US should not be involved as it will just make things incredibly worse. Do you really want the backstabbing self-congratulating imbeciles who masterminded the Afghanistan withdrawal to attempt tangling with Russia or Putin?
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