40oz
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Post by 40oz on Sept 4, 2021 20:41:02 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the mission is to break up long-lasting gaming communities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2021 21:24:02 GMT -5
It's hard to confirm or deny this claim.
Re-releases may cause schisms in certain cases, but is this what is intended, or is it unintented side-effect? Also, what would be the monetary incentive to do that, as opposed of taking advantage of an already existing community to gain more money from them?
I believe the mission is actually to make money cause capitalism, which is achieved by directly selling the re-release.
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 4, 2021 21:37:04 GMT -5
40oz how tho 'reboots' are far more efficient at doing that tbh
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Post by ketmar on Sept 5, 2021 3:37:39 GMT -5
40oz: let me double dmdr question: how tho? i mean, i don't understand how you concluded that. can you explain it in simple words, for dumb ketmars, please? ;-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2021 3:49:30 GMT -5
40oz: let me triple dmdr question: how tho? i mean, i don't understand how you concluded that. can you explain it in simple words, for dumb ketmars and dmslrs, please? ;-)
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Sept 5, 2021 11:45:39 GMT -5
I'm using the doom unity port, doom64, and quake re-release as my base for my hypothesis here, I don't know how it works in other games and their communities because this is the community im most familiar with and I don't really pay a lot of attention to others.
The Doom and Quake communities have a vast network of free resources and content to sustain itself. Nobody asked for the Doom64, Quake, or Doom unity ports, but we did get them. Quake already has darkplaces, doom64 already has doom64ex, Doom already has GZDoom. These ports are far superior. What do they exist for? These re-releases are marketed on steam and other game marketplaces for a competitively low price. The marketplace handles the installation, and runs the games through itself as a frontend. Just a couple clicks and you get the game!
I have a few gamer friends who know I like Doom and old school shooters. When these new games come out, they ask if I'm excited. New maps! New and improved multiplayer! You should buy it so we can play together! If you're a part of the community, you already have access to this stuff and more. What is the selling point of the Doom unity port if you only get to pick from a catalog of wads they chose?
The selling point is the convenience. As things get more convenient, and simplified, the old school installation and troubleshooting of Doom and these other rereleases are now comparatively more complex. And because access to the user made content is not included, the goal is shove these free and bountiful resources into obsolescence.
Companies that rerelease games have an extreme budget to continually update these games because they now have a financial incentive to do so. They also have the marketing channels to make their updates bigger and louder so everyone knows about them. It's not important to players to use community source ports, but somehow it's still in my peripherie. Players who want to play Doom or Quake again SHOULD use the community made resources because they are better, more feature rich, created out of love for the game, and free! But because these ports are maintained for free as a side project, there's no promise these will remain active or stable forever without community support. That's not sustainable when companies rereleasing these beloved games are poaching the players over to their platform.
If players migrate to the convenience of the multi-platform support of these rereleases, there will inevitably be division among the community about "the right way" to play the game, because users of community resources and users of the re-releases will not be able to play the same game together.
I have friends who are casual gamers who ask me to play Doom or Quake with them when these new rereleases come out because setting up a game is so quick and easy. They have the gall to ask me to buy, from bethesda, a game I already have. And when I tell them I don't want to, I have to give them this long boring explanation about how I already have what that offers and more. And that they can too! But the process of teaching them how to do it is boring and complex and requires troubleshooting on modern systems and generally 'feels' hokey. That's not as appealing as clickety click click and BOOM new game appears on my screen and the multiplayer option is right there on the main menu etc. etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2021 12:14:52 GMT -5
I'd say the mission is likely to make more money off of the original game with only minimal work.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Sept 5, 2021 21:53:39 GMT -5
I dont think they're that dumb. And if I'm right, its in their interest for us to think they're that dumb. When it comes to capturing capital from the pool of doom/quake fans, I think a really healthy community that sustains itself without the IP owners' support ultimately effects their bottom line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2021 22:35:26 GMT -5
I dont think they're that dumb. And if I'm right, its in their interest for us to think they're that dumb. When it comes to capturing capital from the pool of doom/quake fans, I think a really healthy community that sustains itself without the IP owners' support ultimately effects their bottom line. Are you saying that the idea tha id software had in 1993, which was to give players a way to grow and sustain a Doom community via user-created content and a EULA that allowed and encouraged such content, was smart back then but not smart now in today's video game environment? I'm not sure that I can argue for or against that honestly. It really depends on a lot of factors.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Sept 5, 2021 23:15:36 GMT -5
I don't really measure a company's ability to maximize profits in terms of being smart or not. I personally lean towards words more like evil, nefarious, manipulative, merciless, etc. Not in all cases, but with how fiercely competitive and oversaturated the market for gaming is now, I do.
I do think giving players a way to grow and sustain a Doom community via user-created content and a EULA in 1993 was a very smart and philanthropic thing to do. The market wasn't as competitive then as it is now, though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 0:22:29 GMT -5
40oz, 1. Making profit is tangential to being dumb/smart. 2. Just because they are smart doesn't mean they made a specific plan you envisioned. This plan of yours might not even work, you are currently just expecting certain things to happen, like most doomers migrating to new platform. What for? There are people who don't even play advanced source ports like Gzdoom and prefer PrBoom-plus. And who maintains the community resources, these people or some randos who play but don't contribute? Your casual players may migrate but they are not the ones who are sustaining a community. The people who would "migrate" are thus of no consequence. You are talking about some people who don't even know about the capacities of ports and have no idea of mapping formats etc. The kind of which would be better served by Doom 2016 and whatever anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 0:28:47 GMT -5
More realistic plan is that they want to suffocate community by denying newcomers from finding their way towards old game and community centered around such. Which they already tried to do by the way they chose names for their reboots.
Now that would be actually plausible.
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 6, 2021 3:01:48 GMT -5
40oz that doesn't break up communities though, it just means that there's more casuals running around. They'll get bored or, if they really like the game, figure out there's a world of content beyond whatever Bethesda has on offer and become source-port users soon enough. I agree that it's dumb they don't just fork a community source port though. Odamex would be a great choice: modern conveniences like high-res and mlook, highly portable (a Switch port already exists), nice multiplayer experience, demo compatible. Uh buh haggers will stele our sauce code if we don't keeb it closed bawwwww
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 3:10:06 GMT -5
dmdr, the majority of source ports (including Odamex) use GPLv2 license, which would require them to disclose the source. If they don't want to do it, they have to reinvent the wheel to a great degree, using the copyrighted source code of original game. Though (G)ZDoom used to have non-copyleft license at earlier times, so they didn't have to go all the way back.
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Post by ketmar on Sept 7, 2021 4:46:39 GMT -5
40oz, i failed to see how what you described is breaking established communities. most old-timers have several sourceports installed anyway, so one more will not matter much. and Doom multiplayer is aready divided, you can't start MP between Odamex and Zandronum, for example. Bethesda doesn't do a good work to help the existing communities. but it's not their duty after all. yet i doubt that they can hurt us. in the end of the day, we will have more people playing Doom. i think it's great.
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P41R47
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Post by P41R47 on Sept 7, 2021 11:47:39 GMT -5
Doom recent rerelease was made and is aimed, mostly, to newcomers. To have a taste of our cummunity that will receive them with armss wide open when they wante to screw more Doom than what the Doomnity port can offer. Simple as that. About the Quake rerelease, eeee well, i don't have it, so its a good plus to have a one in all pack with a decent made sourceport right out from the bat. Give me the GOG version and i will slap Yub-Niggurath saggygoatuddersnonstop. Bethesda doesn't do a good work to help the existing communities. but it's not their duty after all. yet i doubt that they can hurt us. in the end of the day, we will have more people playing Doom. i think it's great. I'm with ketmar there. I remember the old skulltag days... damn we are old suckers for sure.
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