Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2021 12:58:48 GMT -5
That's it. I would just want to hear your opinions on this thing.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Aug 28, 2021 13:29:30 GMT -5
Good features in general. Overall I like it.
Dislike:
- Missed the opportunity to fix some longstanding bugs.
- Missed the opportunity to introduce a WAD-side standard for toggling gameplay options.
- No PrBoom update for it
Like:
- Monster infighting and projectile/splash damage controls
- New codepointers
- Weapon flags/changes/etc.
- Bug fixes to old Boom issues that really should have been fixed a long time ago
Many of the likes I have are a "Yes! Finally!" reaction; being stuck on complevels for so long has been more of a hindrance than a benefit in my opinion.
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xeepeep
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Post by xeepeep on Aug 28, 2021 16:05:25 GMT -5
What's that
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Post by Washing Machine Enthusiasts on Aug 28, 2021 16:12:58 GMT -5
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Post by JadingTsunami on Aug 28, 2021 16:25:26 GMT -5
Yes, I'm aware of OPTIONS; I didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant there. I was thinking of expandable standard that was also encoded in the demo format. I think it could replace complevels entirely, making mbf21 essentially the "final" complevel in a sense. The rest would be WAD-side and could be dictated by the authors. It might be messier to manage in a sense but at least it would mean no more 20-year impasses. |
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Post by dr_st on Aug 28, 2021 16:27:10 GMT -5
It claims backwards compatibility with features of MBF. Which MBF - the original release or the maintenance release 2.04? |
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Aug 28, 2021 17:45:15 GMT -5
I like it and think it's cool It claims backwards compatibility with features of MBF. Which MBF - the original release or the maintenance release 2.04? what features from that update are appropriate for a port-agnostic mapping/modding standard? I don't think it supports these, for example: Improved sound driver setup, with Doom theme.
Added WSS, GUS PnP, ESS and Soundscape drivers. Improved Sound Blaster 2.0/Pro and MPU-401 driver.
Reliable video initialization and access, independent from Allegro.because they're all DOS specific (most of the others listed on the wiki are pure engine stuff too). It does fix at least a couple of longstanding mapping-related errors (that three-key-door-only-needing-two-keys thing that I only found out about because they fixed it ololol, I think generalised crushers work now too) if that counts. |
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Post by ketmar on Sept 4, 2021 2:31:17 GMT -5
why can't it just die? please!
i see some reason behind DeHackEd: it will still work to patch the original DOS executables. but why the fuck drag that mess forward?! Graf proposed to add DECOLITE to PrBoom+/UM (upd: with could be used as the bease here, instead of DeHackEd), but hey, who cares about compatibility and smaller learning times?
fuck it. and fuck it again. i will not even bother adding that support for that shit to k8vavoom (actualy, k8vavoom already sees MBF21, tells about its disgust, barfs and dies).
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 4, 2021 5:24:27 GMT -5
ketmar you know we have DECOHACK now right? it's never been easier to make dehacked patches AND they're more compatible than DECORATE (for obvious reasons)
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Lobo
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Post by Lobo on Sept 4, 2021 5:26:21 GMT -5
k8vavoom already sees MBF21, tells about its disgust, barfs and dies. Lol 😂 |
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Post by ketmar on Sept 4, 2021 5:37:51 GMT -5
ketmar you know we have DECOHACK now right? it's never been easier to make dehacked patches AND they're more compatible than DECORATE (for obvious reasons) it's not only about authoring things, but also about supporting them in sourceports. for me as a sourceport author, DECOHACK is useless, because what I have to work with is compiled DeHackEd/MBF21 file anyway. see, most modern sourceports don't work in terms of "frame tables" anymore. and DeHackEd-based things are all about manipulating that "frame table". it is a major PITA to support even classical DeHackEd in k8vavoom, and i won't go even extra inch to support MBF21, which simply adds more frame table hackery on top. it is much easier to change "classical" ports to work with Actors and States, than to force modern sourceports to make sense of "frame table hacks". because you can compile DECOLITE into frame table hack, but it's MUCH MUCH HARDER (and sometimes impossible) to decompile frame table hack to something sensible and structured. that's why i won't support MBF21: i believe that this is a step in a totally wrong direction. p.s.: i'm not trying to say that DECOHACK is useless, it is a great tool. i only mean that for me it doesn't change anything. |
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 4, 2021 5:40:10 GMT -5
where do you stand on DSDHacked?
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Post by ketmar on Sept 4, 2021 5:48:44 GMT -5
any DeHackEd extension must die. we cannot make DeHackEd itself to die, but anything that tries to "improve" it in any way is a waste of time and efforts.
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 4, 2021 5:55:20 GMT -5
well I think it's cool  |
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Post by ketmar on Sept 4, 2021 6:25:22 GMT -5
eh, i'm not trying to force you (or anybody else) to stop using anything. it is just my personal opinion. i won't send SWAT to you if you will disagree! ;-)
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 4, 2021 6:37:56 GMT -5
i won't send SWAT to you if you will disagree! ;-) why not |
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Post by ketmar on Sept 4, 2021 6:44:13 GMT -5
i won't send SWAT to you if you will disagree! ;-) why not because you never told me your address! |
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dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Sept 4, 2021 6:49:17 GMT -5
that's a pretty good reason tbh
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Post by Giomancer on Sept 10, 2021 15:23:27 GMT -5
why can't it just die? please! i see some reason behind DeHackEd: it will still work to patch the original DOS executables. but why the fuck drag that mess forward?! Graf proposed to add DECOLITE to PrBoom+/UM (upd: with could be used as the bease here, instead of DeHackEd), but hey, who cares about compatibility and smaller learning times? fuck it. and fuck it again. i will not even bother adding that support for that shit to k8vavoom (actualy, k8vavoom already sees MBF21, tells about its disgust, barfs and dies). Because not everyone has VavoomC. =P |
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Post by ketmar on Sept 10, 2021 15:38:00 GMT -5
Because not everyone has VavoomC. =P and you'd better not use it anyway. ;-) i'm not against the idea of extending things, but i am against the way it was done: somehow MBF21 managed to take worser parts of both DeHackEd and DECORATE. while DECORATE is far from being good itself, it is several magnitudes better than that MBF21 abomination. DECOLITE way would be better… but that ship has sailed. alas. |
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Post by Giomancer on Sept 12, 2021 12:10:02 GMT -5
What is this DECOLITE business, anyway? Did anyone end up using it?
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Post by ketmar on Sept 12, 2021 12:16:08 GMT -5
What is this DECOLITE business, anyway? Did anyone end up using it? you can't use it, because it was never implemented. ;-) Graf proposed to add a cleaned up and simplified DECORATE subset to PrBoom+, but people weren't enthusiastic (it is prolly too simple and too easy to use for hardcore vanilla fans). so Graf didn't bothered implementing it. |
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Post by Giomancer on Sept 13, 2021 12:41:11 GMT -5
Never implemented? That's a shame. =/ Makes me lament not being a proper programmer.
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Post by ketmar on Sept 16, 2021 23:18:28 GMT -5
so that fun DW talk ends up in the usual dead end — "grrr, zdoom, DO NOT WANT". plus some "ohlol, it works in my engine, so it can work in yours, and if you can't do it, then you cannot code and your code sux". exactly what i expected. now it will run some more circles and die. good night, sweet DECOLITE.
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