kvsari
Doomer
I like mapping.
Posts: 237
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Post by kvsari on Feb 4, 2023 3:25:59 GMT -5
converting "real 3d maps" is very inefficient. it's fun to have it as a PoC, but i don't think that it is the right tool for everyday use. i have some ideas of "layered editing", tho. i mean, you draw each 3d floor as a separate map part, put the anchor, and the editor exports everything with proper sector subdivisions. i.e. just draw it separately, and let the editor do the rest. but the idea needs some more work to flesh out. maybe one day i'll implement it in Eureka too. ;-) I heard this is how Eternity engine does its portals. |
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Post by ketmar on Feb 4, 2023 3:37:36 GMT -5
yeah, portals are mostly like this. but due to basically having two different layouts at the same coordinates, physics handling is much harder, and way more intrusive than with 3d floors. but it is much easier to draw in an editor. so i want to have both: easy drawing, and efficient in-engine handling, because why not? ;-)
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tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 40 
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Post by tdrr on Feb 5, 2023 19:40:54 GMT -5
i have some ideas of "layered editing", tho. i mean, you draw each 3d floor as a separate map part, put the anchor, and the editor exports everything with proper sector subdivisions. i.e. just draw it separately, and let the editor do the rest. but the idea needs some more work to flesh out. maybe one day i'll implement it in Eureka too. ;-) That sounds like an interesting idea too. Especially if it has proper previewing (and manipulation) in 3D view, that would be a great way to solve the issue. Oh, and always having a copy of the file with the original in-editor setup, which should be obvious but it's something the 3D floor tool in UDB completely misses :p |
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Post by ketmar on Feb 6, 2023 4:15:41 GMT -5
That sounds like an interesting idea too. Especially if it has proper previewing (and manipulation) in 3D view, that would be a great way to solve the issue. sure. at least preview is a must. the only problem here is that i don't underatand how Andrew implemented the renderer in Eureka. ;-) (i have to check it, but i'm almost sure that the latest Eureka from git had 3d floor preview feature, either fully working, or almost working). Oh, and always having a copy of the file with the original in-editor setup, which should be obvious but it's something the 3D floor tool in UDB completely misses  oooh… yeah, that's a must too. ;-) tbh, i think that editors should save at least undo history too. ideally, undo should work like a tree, that branches each time the user did undo and edit, not disappear. with tools to browse and switch those "undo trees". each thing should be marked with the timestamp, and there should be a way to attach labels to undos. of course, it should be persistent too. that would be an interesting way to work with documents: basically, built-in version control tool, with "commit granularity" defined by logical operations, not some diff algo. with unique feature "hey, i want this thing exactly as it was yesterday, 3:45 PM" — and voila! here it is. |
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Post by camper on Feb 18, 2023 3:27:41 GMT -5
someone, please show a video demo with voxel monsters
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Post by camper on Mar 16, 2023 7:59:51 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm already confused about the versions of the decoration. For example, I'm reading an article about player classes and I can't figure out which version is relevant for k8. Janis' website has some examples for the vavoom engine, but it doesn't say which version it is. What a fun mess.
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Post by camper on Mar 16, 2023 16:04:32 GMT -5
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tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 40
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Post by tdrr on Mar 19, 2023 10:51:25 GMT -5
To be honest, I'm already confused about the versions of the decoration. For example, I'm reading an article about player classes and I can't figure out which version is relevant for k8. Janis' website has some examples for the vavoom engine, but it doesn't say which version it is. What a fun mess. The Vavoom documentation is massively outdated. I'd recommend just looking at the ZDoom wiki for info, almost everything about DECORATE there applies to K8Vavoom's implementation of it, which has far better support than Vavoom had. |
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Post by camper on Mar 21, 2023 1:35:18 GMT -5
The Vavoom documentation is massively outdated. I'd recommend just looking at the ZDoom wiki for info, almost everything about DECORATE there applies to K8Vavoom's implementation of it, which has far better support than Vavoom had. Referring to the zdoom site confuses me too. They keep stressing now that the decorations are outdated and the Zscript should be used. I suspect that the decorate is slightly different for different ports and there is no single exact standard. For example, the use of the sky in different ports leads to different results (the sky is differently oriented relative to the cardinal points), there is also a difference in the work of the railgun. But this is half the trouble. I have a feeling that the decorate part just doesn't work. Of course, I don’t know decorate and I try to use it simply by copying and checking different pieces of the script. But so far I have not caught the universal logic that would work equally in different ports. |
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tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 40
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Post by tdrr on Mar 23, 2023 11:33:01 GMT -5
DECORATE is very much identical between ZDoom, Zandronum and K8Vavoom. The differences are when, say, you use anonymous functions and such, but otherwise it's the same. K8Vavoom will also give you some extra errors for things that are really bad but not treated as errors in ZDoom/Zandro.
And yeah, the wiki says DECORATE is outdated, but it's only outdated for GZDoom. Zandronum and K8Vavoom still mostly use it for what it's supposed to do.
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Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 508
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Post by Lobo on Mar 24, 2023 1:15:11 GMT -5
Making people use zscript instead of decorate also means that mods will then be gzdoom exclusive...
Just saying.
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tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 40
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Post by tdrr on Mar 24, 2023 14:18:04 GMT -5
Yeah. I dislike the idea, but then GZDoom has also broken some DECORATE stuff and things that worked fine may VM abort (I'm sure it's accidental, but still), so it's to the point I don't support GZDoom at all because it's a lot of work for a port that's only getting much harder to run for me. And none of my mods are doing anything so extraordinary or unsafe (which is VERY hard to do with how limited DECORATE is) that I should expect them to crash.
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Post by ketmar on Mar 24, 2023 23:27:39 GMT -5
actually, k8v DECORATE is even more advanced in some areas than GZ one. like, you can use local variables in weapons (see BDW mod, for example), which crash VM in GZ. there are also special states for pickups, where you can check if pickup can be picked up. ;-) of course, GZ answer to this is "use ZScript, Luke!", but hey, DECORATE can do it just fine too.
you can also use "stateinclude" in state definitions (your normal #include), so you can factor out common parts instead of doing copypasta (see Zan mod, all weapons have "kick mode", which is implemented as separate include, shared by weapons code).
also, Zan mod is using special pickup states to give you random amount of ammo when you're picking up a weapon first time. i.e. each weapon has some random amount of ammo instead of a fixed one.
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Post by camper on Mar 29, 2023 10:54:33 GMT -5
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Post by ketmar on Apr 25, 2023 17:59:34 GMT -5
there's not much work done on k8vavoom lately, but the project is not dead! you all know that Ukraine is not the best place to live these days, but i hope that after the victory i'll be able to resume full-speed k8vavoom development. and for now, here's the latest build, with fixes and improvements accumulated from the previous one! brief changelog
* do not invert `InheritActorPitch` in MODELDEF (thanks, TDRR!)
* ColorSetter should wait a little before applying the effects (thanks, TDRR!)
* forgot to set "used" flag on reused emit buffers in VavoomC compiler (thanks, id0!)
* use 32-bit vertex indices in OpenGL model code, to make Cheello Voxel Pack usable
* do not require standard iwads if "-iwad" CLI arg is specified
* VavoomC `forceparents` could create an endless loop (thanks, TDRR!)
* the engine could cull lights which didn't touched any walls (but still touched floor and/or ceiling)
* "forceauto" in "modes.rc" wasn't working for non-globs
* implemented fuzzy mode in model renderer
* added last render time variable for entities; added DECORATE properties to get last render time, current level time, and game time
* use voxel models for some BDW objects
* added `IsActorClassExists()` DECORATE function
* added experimental support for Magica Voxel files
* fixed VavoomC compiler bug with lastchildof inheritance (endless loop) (thanks, TDRR!)
* added BasePlayer flags to block/invert mouse look (independent of cvars, persistent) (requested by TDRR)
* fixed (workarounded) bug with monsters left suspended in the air on lowering pillars on E1M5
(this also should fix some other cases when monsters left suspended in the air when they stuck in each other) (thanks, Remilia!)
* some DECORATE improvements and extensions, as usual
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Post by camper on Apr 26, 2023 2:40:34 GMT -5
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Post by camper on Apr 27, 2023 10:38:25 GMT -5
do not require standard iwads if "-iwad" CLI arg is specified I did not immediately understand the meaning of the phrase. Requires a palette. For example, it work with the file btsx_e1a.wad ( Back to Saturn X E1: Get Out Of My Stations, www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/btsx_e1 ). There are levels but without textures (they are in the file btsx_e1b.wad ), monsters and weapons without sound. But this is a definite breakthrough, I think. |
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Post by ketmar on Apr 27, 2023 14:57:09 GMT -5
do not require standard iwads if "-iwad" CLI arg is specified I did not immediately understand the meaning of the phrase. previously, doom.wad or doom2.wad should still be present, even with "-iwad", otherwise the engine won't start at all. |
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Post by camper on Apr 28, 2023 5:34:51 GMT -5
I still have questions about the voxel monster pack for k8vavoom.
1. Does it exist separately as .pk3?
2. Under what license are these models available?
3. Are there monster and projectile sounds in the pack?
4. Will it be available for download?
A separate question, is it possible to turn monsters in 16 directions, and not in 8?
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Post by ketmar on Apr 28, 2023 16:08:25 GMT -5
1. yes.
2. custom proprietary license.
3. nope. why?
4. nope. it is not clear if custom proprietary license allows this, so i won't publish it.
the engine supports 16 rotation sprites for all objects. not that i remember the exact details, tho. also, monster AI is using only 8 directions.
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tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 40
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Post by tdrr on Apr 29, 2023 1:07:42 GMT -5
Why not ask Cheelo? I'm sure he'd be fine with it.
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Post by ketmar on Apr 29, 2023 2:11:59 GMT -5
mostly because there is no email in readme.txt. and even if it would be there, gmail simply rejects my mails anyway. as the pack is heavily modified, i prefer to stay on the safe side, and don't distribute it. exactly because i think that Cheello did the great job, and i don't have to ride on it without his permission. |
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Post by rastamangames on Apr 29, 2023 23:36:01 GMT -5
While attempting of loading my "Urban Crusade" MBF21 map-pack in this source-port just throws an error at me:  In other source-ports (like "DSDA-Doom", "Doom Retro" or just "GZDoom") all works fine. What happened here? |
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Post by ketmar on Apr 29, 2023 23:40:31 GMT -5
MBF21 is not supported, and there are no plans to support it.
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tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 40
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Post by tdrr on May 6, 2023 15:49:24 GMT -5
mostly because there is no email in readme.txt. and even if it would be there, gmail simply rejects my mails anyway. as the pack is heavily modified, i prefer to stay on the safe side, and don't distribute it. exactly because i think that Cheello did the great job, and i don't have to ride on it without his permission. I asked him on Twitter (had to dig up an account I haven't used in like two years but it would've been worth it) but I couldn't DM, only public mentions. He never replied :p Oh well, that's fine. |
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