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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 5:07:47 GMT -5
On the side, @themagicmushroomman said on Doomworld that DBP wads are not just bread and butter of his habit, but have well-implemented difficulty modes. Is that true guys? Would be really cool if it is for real, shame if not though, cause if one reads that and finds it's not, they are going to be pretty disappointed and might feel their skill is not enough to enjoy modern wads even on lower difficulties. Choosing to play on lower difficulty only to find out it is same as UV or not really much different is a huge bummer to me. Their should be like a quick preview (maybe that integrates itself into a context menu when you are right-clicking a wad, it is possible to make this) of what maps have difficulty settings in singleplayer and which don't. Or a fake thumbnail (hell, it would be even possible to make automatic thumbnails for wads just like for videos). Heck, this seems like it would be interesting to implement, I don't like using Windows tools to develop though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 5:11:05 GMT -5
Right-clicking on a wad and immediately having an estimate of its minimum port compatibility (limit-removing, Boom, Zdoom) would be cool too, even if it won't say version and not necessary 100% (but most often still ) correct, could save a lot of hassle (if it has boom linedefs action it's gotta be boom, ditto with lumps that host advanced stuff). If only programming an idea was just as fast as just thinking about it.
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
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Post by dmdr on Jul 16, 2021 7:11:48 GMT -5
I see this is blowing up in the Cacowards thread on DW. Good work boys! Shoutout to those 4chan'gers who thought DBP will be R.I.P following the schism. Doomer boards is killin' it, in a good sense of the idiom! yeah I saw that there'd been some drama while I was away. Shame but the DBK set that just came out is pretty damn good too (I finished up A;Z today so I played a few maps of that too) so I guess it worked out for the best.
Actually, just to comment on your idea above a bit, those would be good features for a Doom launcher to have, especially the autochecking for port compatibility (the really definitive Doom Launcher has yet to be written). That would get you away from Windows dependence too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 7:25:58 GMT -5
the really definitive Doom Launcher has yet to be written I will keep that in mind. For now, I'm stretched thin on non-doom programming projects, both personal and business/job.
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Post by getphobo on Jul 16, 2021 19:23:18 GMT -5
Guys, those armor and health bonuses on map 03 at position x:5240/y:250/z:256 cause a massive frame rate drop on my system for some reason. It goes down from something like 120 fps to 20 fps, and while I'm fine with the usual fps fluctuations, a sudden drop by 80% is no fun. Could you improve that a bit?
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
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Post by matador on Jul 16, 2021 19:52:56 GMT -5
Guys, those armor and health bonuses on map 03 at position x:5240/y:250/z:256 cause a massive frame rate drop on my system for some reason. It goes down from something like 120 fps to 20 fps, and while I'm fine with the usual fps fluctuations, a sudden drop by 80% is no fun. Could you improve that a bit? The bonuses are stacked, that's the only thing I could think of that would cause fps drops. Has anyone else experienced this issue when playing it?
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jul 16, 2021 20:23:29 GMT -5
Guys, those armor and health bonuses on map 03 at position x:5240/y:250/z:256 cause a massive frame rate drop on my system for some reason. It goes down from something like 120 fps to 20 fps, and while I'm fine with the usual fps fluctuations, a sudden drop by 80% is no fun. Could you improve that a bit? Only explanation I can think of is all the dynamic light effects in ports like GZDoom. In fact, I had to remove a ton of stacked barrels in MAP15 due to that until it became less excessive down to the balance it's at now. But first thing is to confirm what port you're using, settings, gameplay mods, etc.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Jul 16, 2021 20:26:59 GMT -5
Guys, those armor and health bonuses on map 03 at position x:5240/y:250/z:256 cause a massive frame rate drop on my system for some reason. It goes down from something like 120 fps to 20 fps, and while I'm fine with the usual fps fluctuations, a sudden drop by 80% is no fun. Could you improve that a bit? Not able to reproduce this, and I would not expect stacked bonuses to have this kind of issue. What port are you using and with what settings? Do you have any other mods loaded like voxels for items? I am wondering if you have overlapping openGL light sources or meshes applied to health and armor which is causing the lag.
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Post by getphobo on Jul 17, 2021 11:14:09 GMT -5
Okay, so I tried with and without mods. And I got some interesting findings.
First, without mods, that scene gives me some 60-70 fps which is more or less on par with the slowest scenes in rest of the map. The stacked bonuses cause a performance impact, but it's normally not extreme, so obviously the map's creator wouldn't necessarily notice it.
So I looked for the real culprit that was causing that particular drop down to 20 fps... and found it to be a mod called lights2.pk3 that makes everything excessively glowy, including stimpacks, medikits and even... water. Once I removed that, the framerate in the described scene got back to normal levels. Interestingly, that mod didn't seem to affect the rest of the map as much as it did in this one scene.
However, I normally use some additional glowiness mods, so I also tried with those, and that actually gave me 90 fps in the very same scene and also higher values throughout the map than 'pure' GZDoom. So the surprise here is that GZDoom's default dynamic lighting has a worse performance on my system than some mods that let the game look better.
I'm using GZDoom 4.6.0 with Vulkan rendering and virtually all settings maxed out and several mods that affect the visuals.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 17, 2021 16:33:14 GMT -5
Interesting. I don't know if I can reliably test for something like this, as I generally don't play with gameplay mods or visual enhancements. We try to design for baseline compatibility for all ports (without visplane limits) so when you start blending other mods into the mix, it's difficult to determine if this is actually a problem with our mapping or the way the mod works.
In any case, if this is unoptimizable in the mod and there's an easy mapping solution (such as keeping items/barrels seperate instead of stacked directly on top of each other) I'll keep that in mind for our future projects.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 18:43:42 GMT -5
My hardware is dated, definitely won't be able to investigate. I don't think my system even supports Vulkan (haven't tried though).
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Post by JadingTsunami on Jul 17, 2021 19:08:42 GMT -5
In any case, if this is unoptimizable in the mod and there's an easy mapping solution (such as keeping items/barrels seperate instead of stacked directly on top of each other) I'll keep that in mind for our future projects. It is the number of simultaneous light sources rather than the fact that they are stacked. Without changing gameplay, the other option would be to use GLDEFS to remove glowiness. But of course not all players would like that.
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jul 17, 2021 22:13:02 GMT -5
WTF did I just gaslight myself? I have no idea if any MAPINFO works with Crispy Doom and everywhere I look tells me no it doesn't. I idclev to a map, press the exit switch, then idclev to the credits map, then press the 'back to start' button and it returns me to the level I just beat. WHYYYYYYY?
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Post by getphobo on Jul 17, 2021 22:18:26 GMT -5
It is the number of simultaneous light sources rather than the fact that they are stacked. If that was the case, my system would struggle throughout the whole game, yet it only does so at this particular location. There are some 25 simultaneous light sources there (20 bonuses plus the blue key card plus some additional lighting from the surroundings), but in the large outside area there are many, many more, and my framerate is still more than doubled. So I believe it's indeed the stacking that slows it all down.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jul 17, 2021 22:30:23 GMT -5
WTF did I just gaslight myself? I have no idea if any MAPINFO works with Crispy Doom and everywhere I look tells me no it doesn't. I idclev to a map, press the exit switch, then idclev to the credits map, then press the 'back to start' button and it returns me to the level I just beat. WHYYYYYYY? Just crispy doom huh? just tested on prboom-plus and it works fine on that. Most people i watched play this so far either used GZDoom or DSDA-Doom so my thoughts thus far is most people are getting the intended experience. and crispy doom players just get a minor hiccup that really doesn't effect the quality of the mapset. Seems like more an error on crispy doom's part than your mapinfo unless theres a known workaround.
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jul 17, 2021 22:38:37 GMT -5
I love Crispy Doom though I always play in it if I can First I was betrayed by my beloved explosive barrels (ancient "Cuppy" lore) and now the port I've stuck to and loved for several years since we first met. Must have been some MBF stuff I saw in play way back when whatever the heck that really is. I'm definitely a noob to all this source port technical jarjon alphabet soups.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Jul 17, 2021 22:43:23 GMT -5
It is the number of simultaneous light sources rather than the fact that they are stacked. If that was the case, my system would struggle throughout the whole game, yet it only does so at this particular location. There are some 25 simultaneous light sources there (20 bonuses plus the blue key card plus some additional lighting from the surroundings), but in the large outside area there are many, many more, and my framerate is still more than doubled. So I believe it's indeed the stacking that slows it all down. I think you will find if you place a similar number of light sources at a similar distance, it would not matter if they are stacked on top of one another or not.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Jul 17, 2021 23:01:26 GMT -5
WTF did I just gaslight myself? I have no idea if any MAPINFO works with Crispy Doom and everywhere I look tells me no it doesn't. I idclev to a map, press the exit switch, then idclev to the credits map, then press the 'back to start' button and it returns me to the level I just beat. WHYYYYYYY? Yes, that's a bit of a quirk of how Crispy works. The current map is stored and updated during the "ticker" screen that shows your statistics. The secret map exit (on a map that doesn't normally have a secret exit in vanilla Doom) normally takes you back to the current map. But since you idclev'd to the map, the ticker never showed, so the most recent map for which you had a ticker, or you started the game with, will be used. There's no UMAPINFO or Doom MAPINFO support in Crispy.
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jul 17, 2021 23:03:54 GMT -5
Thank you for the educated explanation. Whoops!
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
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Post by dmdr on Jul 17, 2021 23:29:31 GMT -5
I love Crispy Doom though I always play in it if I can
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 0:31:09 GMT -5
On the side, @themagicmushroomman said on Doomworld that DBP wads are not just bread and butter of his habit, but have well-implemented difficulty modes. Is that true guys? Would be really cool if it is for real, shame if not though, cause if one reads that and finds it's not, they are going to be pretty disappointed and might feel their skill is not enough to enjoy modern wads even on lower difficulties. Choosing to play on lower difficulty only to find out it is same as UV or not really much different is a huge bummer to me. Their should be like a quick preview (maybe that integrates itself into a context menu when you are right-clicking a wad, it is possible to make this) of what maps have difficulty settings in singleplayer and which don't. Or a fake thumbnail (hell, it would be even possible to make automatic thumbnails for wads just like for videos). Heck, this seems like it would be interesting to implement, I don't like using Windows tools to develop though. I can at least say that difficulty modes feel implemented well enough on the maps I've had trouble with. I started out playing most wads on UV but switched to HMP/sometimes HNTR about a year ago - and things do feel easier/less chaotic. I mostly play on HMP and most maps feel pretty much what I would expect them to feel like on that difficulty. I remember having trouble with the last map of Dungeons and Demons, but that's the only one that comes to mind right away. I don't go through each map on each difficulty mode so it's impossible to make an appropriate comparison between each one. So it seems to me that the maps that don't have difficulty modes implemented seem good enough for more casual players while still being interesting for veterans.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 9:05:33 GMT -5
Cool, DBP is doing it right then finally. I remember having a negative experience with "Fuck Global Warming... This is hell", and other DBPs of that era.
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jul 18, 2021 20:05:37 GMT -5
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matador
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
I feel asleep.
Posts: 1,181
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Post by matador on Jul 18, 2021 21:25:12 GMT -5
What's the tracklist for the music in the V3 resources?
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jul 18, 2021 21:45:54 GMT -5
1: Godot's Theme from Ace Attorney 2: Blade Runner theme 3: Omega Five - The Glacial Fortress 4: All Systems, Go! from VA-11 HALL-A: Cyberpunk Bartender Action 5: Electric Toothbrush from Jet Set Radio 6: HACX MAP01 7: Ninja Warriors Stage 3 8: Megaman Battle Network Duel theme (however I am unable to confirm this or find the original music) 9: Streets of Rage 1 - Bridge 10: Stardust Speedway (This time a remix containing some of Sonic Mania's parts) 11: YU-NO Theme 12: Persona 2 Factory Theme 13: Cashmere Cannonball from No More Heroes 14: The Rippingtons - Virtual Reality 15: Kavinsky - Nightcall
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