40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 5,536
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Post by 40oz on Jun 24, 2021 7:25:54 GMT -5
40oz, I can and I will say this stuff, because I consider your position unacceptable, Unacceptable for what? As a doom community member? Because that's all I got. I have no political influence anywhere. I've never 'removed' or helped remove anyone. I didn't even vote this year. I don't know any politicians or have any influence on the trajectory of the worlds politics at all. If I could change the world we wouldn't be debating about left and right politics at all. It's just an outlet people have to shift blame and not think about the real tangible problems in their life. When you break your problems down to specific things, it's hardly connectible to political parties at all. Every individual has their personal experience and views so both 'sides' are wrong for the world. The ideologies of both sides are fucking stupid and if either of them got their way it would be horrible for everyone who doesn't participate in it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 8:21:38 GMT -5
Unacceptable, because it defends harming people - you should have quoted the entire sentence, it was there already. You do this, for example, by telling that being targeted is a non-issue, despite Lobo mentioning his father was subjected to physical violence over using his native language, whereas optimus cited an example where Uncle Bob made two comments which were described as "sexist", for which he apologized but another person was still criticised for endorsing Uncle Bob - which means apologizing didn't clear him from "charges" of cancel culture, contrary to what you are stating.
You are also not a regular forum member, but an admin, so you reach is actually higher, or perhaps, more correctly, you have a "starting advantage" if debates can be compared to some kind of race. You also talk like a figure of authority (a teacher?) - whether about Doom (the infamous rant about high damaging floors beind bad comes to mind) or about politics - that is, there is a certain high level of certitude of being right coming from your posts, and of others being perceived by you as needing education and correction of their opinions.
Likewise, although "language craftsman" should have been "words craftsman" in my post, it is not some kind of slur, but rather (maybe a bit too informal) an observation. It pertains to how you ignore all the content in other people's post that mentions events like cancel culture, and instead focus on redefining what is meant by "targeting" and then proceeding to defend that action that you substituted for actual concerns other people voiced. It should be clear by now that when I said "targeting" I wasn't talking about merely being called out on saying something in interpersonal exchange, I was talking about being targeted for cancellation, removal from some post, ex-communication, which is on-topic since optimus's concern revolves around how Uncle Bob was treated and the cancel culture within gaming communities.
I will finish by saying that discussing this is also not some kind of outlet, as thing actually phones home due to what happened to the authors of Dynamite Duchess, Blade Of Agony, Ancension, etc. We (people who do not support your opinion in this debate, topic starter as well) are concerned that what we are saying outside of our works or actually including in our works may restrict the communities we are allowed to enter or remain in. And we obviously don't like this state of things.
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 24, 2021 9:44:08 GMT -5
Also:
@vigilantdoomer By 'we' do you mean you, you, and yourself?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 9:53:16 GMT -5
MegaPancakeStrategist, if you are talking about last paragraph, I first indicated in parentheses who am I talking about - that is, everyone siding against 40oz on topic discussed here, I presume topic starter would be one of those people too - and then referred to 'we' since it was now clearly defined. I am confident that I guessed their attitude correctly, but if not - they may correct me. It is not a big issue. I don't watch videos online but have to download them instead to watch when is convenient, so if you were somehow addressing in that video, consider that you might as well not make this post. I don't even see the title of the video, and need to use "Inspector" tool in web browser to locate the link to youtube video which I may then download using a third-party service which parses links to video file out of links to video pages. In this case, I don't feel like it - I may never end up downloading this particular videos, which is what happens to the majority of videos posted here. (I configured adblocker to block youtube widgets and the only acceptable to watch the video is going through the process described).
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 24, 2021 10:06:44 GMT -5
I think you're posting in the wrong thread then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 10:15:00 GMT -5
MegaPancakeStrategist, clarify please? The thread discussion was established primarly by written conversations. Also, of note I did download the video by optimus, because I believe this guy deserves support. However, video has huge length and I have not yet seen the end of it. It is your ( MegaPancakeStrategist) video that I won't bother downloading. If you want to make a point, make it in writing. The video by optimus is not convenient format either, I am just going through the trouble of watching it so I can offer better words or advice. But for the purpose of discussion, videos are fucking inferior to posts, hands down.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 10:19:40 GMT -5
Did this confuse you? There is a typo: I meant "this particular video". Also by "majority of videos posted here" I referred to videos posted on the entire doomer boards in general, not this specific thread. Don't bother posting videos on doomer boards if I am supposed to be watching them (if it is not important whether I watch them or not, do whatever you want of course).
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 24, 2021 10:21:21 GMT -5
I didn't see any disagreement with 40oz really. Also the video wasn't specifically for you it was just to share since I thought it related to the topic of language control, and also for entertainment. Language changes how one processes and uses information. In the episode the clip is from there's also a conspiracy about introducing all kinds of dumb slang words to further limit language. I'm also curious how much even the sounds produced by speaking a language changes how someone functions.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 10:38:54 GMT -5
MegaPancakeStrategist, I would argue that optimus, Lobo and dn all disagreed with 40oz in one way or another. Granted, I didn't actually drag dn into that 'we' when I was writing it, since he did not engage 40oz directly, but rather pointed out that language is a point of concern for those seeking power over others. It was him breaking the word of wisdom, or contributing something worthy to think about. Lobo and optimus, on the other hand, seem in very strong disagreement with 40oz since the latter tries to gaslight people into thinking that left means no harm and simply wants you to stop hurting, rather than being perpetrators themselves, whereas Lobo and optimus cite very negative experiences they encountered or heard of. When Stallman was cancelled, there was no move to make him apologize - it was explicity stated that he (and everyone "horrible" in tech) must be removed. So the question is: do you actually pay attention to written text, or do you kinda speed-read it and miss half the words? Also, the written advertisement you put for the video is nice, but I still must prioritize listening to the one by optimus. I was simply indicating that I won't be reacting to video contents you provided since I am unaware of them, so if someone insults me there I don't know about it and won't be replying xD
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Post by optimus on Jun 24, 2021 11:20:50 GMT -5
My understanding of being "targeted" is that it's not something you are supposed to be afraid of. If something you say is harmful and someone tells you, you apologize to them and ask them what the correct thing is to say, and then you say that, and thank the person for informing you. That's all. What if you disagree with what is considered harmful? You say "if something you say is harmful, you apologize to them, thank them for correcting them, etc" like it's what people should do. What if you find the thing you are accuse of is ridiculous and don't want to apologize? Or you want to discuss it, but by their logic if you disagree it might be gaslighting for them, it's like saying "your problem is non problem, it's just in your imagination". In fact, in that case with Uncle Bob, the things that were deemed problematic where so innocent, YET he did apoligise in that way, saying something like "maybe I said something I shouldn't, I don't understand it now, but I am sorry". So he went full accepting the "micro-aggresion" existance. He went all the way, and yet the other poster still decided he has problematic views. The problem with all these is that they come for you for minimal things that shouldn't be reasons for being angry, either you resist or apologize, they treat you badly (and even are angry for other developers saying anything positive about your work), then they throw these gas-lighting explanations like you did "Oh, but we are just trying to making things nicer, and you have to understand that some things are harmful, and I know you don't get it because maybe the times have moved and we have to move all happily with the zeitgeist because we are all a diverse and inclusive community, and who would you be to react to that, maybe a bigot or an old guy who is living in the past or an autist?" You have this war for the most minimal offences all over the spaces, then when someone criticizes it, the reaction is this insidious "But We Are for the Good Things (TM)". Most normies look at it and are convinced that "hey, maybe I should learn to not do the "micro-aggresions" next time because this all sounds nice and dandy and lovingly, or because I sense I will be alone here to defend myself when everyone adapts this post-progressive reality. Few of us, maybe with some different personality traits just don't get it or become suspicious of it. Some people love to be contrarians, others can't lie to themselves easily (like forcefully or gradually convince themselves that they have to move to this zeitgeist and everything is nice and beautiful here), others had gone some personal cancelation maybe, or have different experiences that go in contrast with this new orthodoxy. I somehow have this issue, while I am usually more polite (9 out of 10 I keep my mouth from speaking), I have a deep burn for knowing the facts, the truth behind things, and I have seen enough of how a lot of people in the woke trick us, that I can't unsee it, I can't just say "I'll follow the orthodoxy and blank my brain". Anyway,.
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Post by optimus on Jun 24, 2021 11:24:53 GMT -5
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Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 557
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Post by Lobo on Jun 24, 2021 16:12:04 GMT -5
You apologize, you show weakness. And 90% of these individuals will up the ante and escalate, instead of graciously accepting your apology. Blood in the water, sends them into a frenzy I guess.
Or the more I think about it, at the end of the day it's being a bully, but in a socially acceptable way. And once you give in to a bully they just bully you even more.
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Post by sosh on Jun 25, 2021 7:26:19 GMT -5
If something you say is harmful and someone tells you, you apologize to them and ask them what the correct thing is to say, and then you say that, and thank the person for informing you. That's all. I think this advice doesn't work well for speaking with random people on the internet. It, in my opinion, will likely lead to rise in incredibly annoying "cry bullying". Also, it would be much more preferable for users to casually call each other faggots in no uncertain terms than skirting around terms and words that become istphobic pretty much out of nowhere.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 11:50:49 GMT -5
sosh, nice point, indeed this kind of advice is more likely useful when speaking to people you know, and even then, some people still don't take apologies well and continue to shame you (I am not talking about the particular situation of using "offensive" words, but about generic situation - when a person doesn't care about your apology no matter what's the subject). In such circumstances, I sometimes wish I could take apology, and I also usually consider that while I did make the right thing (apologize to them) they owe me an apology in return, so I either remove this people from my life or act maliciously towards them without any kind of warning. I also do understand what you mean by calling each other faggots, indeed letting out insults usually allows to let the anger do and disappear, often even forgetting you called them faggots in first place. Of course, this requires other people to understand this mentality, or they may develop bitterness, while you will wonder: why the hell are they angry at me? Cause such calls are usually followed by lapses of memory - you rant, you let go of negative feelings, you forget, you move on. If only other people understood that flat insults are not meant to be taken as offense but as a testament that the person is simply in bad mood and that saying it aloud is a cure for it.
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