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Post by optimus on Jun 19, 2021 14:22:56 GMT -5
This needs some introduction. I am going through various moods and self introspection. I am still psyched by watching all the let's call them critical-to-the-woke youtube channels for 4-5 years. It does affect me. Last time I didn't got convinced when I tried to watch the Innuendo's studio "How to radicalize a normie". Many people would say "I think you have become radicalized by the alt-right, watch this!". And I tell them I watched it and wasn't convinced. But then I found the watching of it painful, and every minute I would pause and rant about things. Maybe I didn't watch it till the end. I also have tried to watch contrapoints as it's another breadtuber who people said switched their brains from red pill to blue pill let's say. Couldn't finish one of her (is this the right pronoun?) videos. I still don't believe I am radicalized, nor that things that the critical-to-woke side are wrong. A lot of things I've read or seen have to be debunked to shatter my reality, I don't see it happening right now.
But anyway,. I still want to do an experiment for a month at least. I will try to avoid feeding me the critical-to-woke side youtube videos, and make a deep dive into woke-videos or even mainstream videos pointing out that alt-right or whatever danger, maybe some more breadtube channels (especially some that don't go too crazy and are as logical sounding as they can), I might even consider making a twitter account (I deleted my twitter account to get away from negativity) which will just follow wokes, blue checkmarks, leftist journalists, even normies who only watch mainstream.
May goal is to 1) truly challenge myself, 2) see what it is to live in the other bubble instead of my bubble. Do people who only follow certain accounts and mainstream news get the actual impression that the so called alt-right (which includes everyone right of Mao) is really really that dangerous new thing? 3) I will have to try to watch the channels and read the twitters uncritically without responding. That's a very hard part, because if you got passionate/furious after some years watching your favorite side, everything the other side says will trigger you, it will make you stop the video and rant for long then quit. I need to do this uncritically, to run it, maybe chuckle a bit, then ok take it like zen.
The goal is not to change to the other side or something (unless it happens naturally). The goal is to understand how it seems to the other side, and familiarise, try to imagine how it is to hear the news from the woke side. Each side looks at the other sides and is like "I am taking crazy pills? What's wrong with these people?". It's the same in a mirror image. But one goal is to try to get in their mind, how they right now see the other side. It's hard, because one way would be if I wiped out my current memories, so that I start from scratch uncritically, because I am sure every time I hear/read something that irks me, I'll react and remember my current beliefs. That's why, I also wanted to not watch the channels from the critical-to-woke youtube at the same time I am doing.
I think 40oz had such transformation relevant. I also wonder which youtube channels or twitter and other sites to focus? I will start with Innuedo studios, then a bit contrapoints, maybe Vaush, or maybe some more left leaning neutral mainstream news clips (which will still throw soundbytes there to demonize incels, mras, etc... but I want to dive into them in a zenny way instead of ragequiting)
Tough task, but many things in me are in transformation. Not that I will transform to the other side, I'll just clear up some things in my mind or take a break from/cleanse the present mental habits.
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Post by optimus on Jun 19, 2021 18:58:18 GMT -5
I am just trying to get into their mind. I don't think I'll join the other side. If I get fed up with all these, the best thing I could do was to quit politics all along. I see some people though who claim "I was in the red pill then I went the other way around". I might also look at the x-redpil in reddit, people saying they were red-pill then went the other way around and watch all contrapoints. I don't get it actually. If I was fedup I wouldn't go from one extreme to a batshit inside extreme. Anyway,. I need some cleanse of brain and then come back and see how it felt and what did I learn.
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Post by optimus on Jun 20, 2021 3:13:41 GMT -5
It's actually like a challenging zen metaloving exercise.
I am currently watching the part where "gamergate are just those misogynists incels" and I get triggered, pause the demo and react. Then I stop and say to myself "Just watch and listen. Stop reacting for a while". Then a picture of Anita Sarkessian pops out at a TED talk, I want to punch the screen. Then I say "listen,. she is actually cute with those earings and lipstick". It's a weird experience, very metalove zenny. God, I can't wait to continue through this masochism, I almost start to like it.
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Post by optimus on Jun 20, 2021 4:54:04 GMT -5
I take it back, it's unbearable, I started screaming!
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Post by optimus on Jun 20, 2021 8:17:55 GMT -5
Ok fuck those people,. I try to go to another video and it makes me angrier. Then I leave it for later and maybe I search something on the internet and I get into some other devs attacked by SJWs.
ALWAYS,. there is some article which is like "This Guy has made super-problematic sexist/racist remarks" When I click on the twitter or whatever links, I am expecting something horrible or a bad joke. And it's so innocuous I ALWAYS FACEPALM
Someone was writing things about Uncle Bob for example, a famous developer (but more into software craftmanship, agile methods and things I don't think much about). A whole article of how problematic his behavior is. So I click on a link. Some SJW said the term "Craftmanship" is sexist. His reply wasn't excessive. Then someone complained because he said "C (the language) is for real men!". He replied maybe semi joking "We guy's didn't let women into the field".. Now that doesn't mean (Bragging: We guys didn't let women, haha). It's even pro-feminist. I actually even don't believe that. He is pretty pro-feminist by his post. He is so positive, so pro-woman, two innocuous things he said was criticized, and it's even pointed as he is some kind of sexist. And he even apologizes. AND THAT IS THE HORRIBLE PERCEIVED MISOGYNY OF THE SPACE
And now I read the developer of Factorio, because he retweeted or endorsed Uncle Bob (as Uncle Bob tweeted something positive about his game Factorio), someone was like "How dare you, this guy is a racist and a bigot!" Now, the Factorio dev didn't apologized, he simply said "Take that cancel culture mentality and shove it up your ass!" At this point, I agree..
They come and, even if semi-politely (but insiduously) at first, claim "C is for real men" being sexist, "male-female connector" is sexist, humankind should be peoplekind, and if you even semi-politely be "wait, that's ridiculous!" this is horrible sexism for them! And if there is some drama, they try to cancel you and claim that you are a horrible misogynist and bigot. Now, the normies who read that, they might not look further and say "I guess he is, I don't touch that with a two meter pole!". Also, actually his answer to the "craftmanship" was semi-polite let's say and was "Complaining about “craftsman” as a word is petty and ignorant of the English language." And the first guys replied with these very common nowadays exclamation words "YIKES" "OOF" "TOXIC" THAT? THAT IS TOXIC? One guy says "You lack of empathy!" WTF????
The amount of disgust they show, compared to what actually was said, mindblowing!!! Uncle Bob writes a sensible post of the type "The police are not the problem. The police were never the problem. Defunding the police is a terrible policy that will put hundreds, if not thousands, of lives at risk." (and ok, people will disagree, but at least it was sensibly put, it's not some horrible far right thing) and people say "There! Rightwing!!! Problematic to the community, let's cancel!!!"
And worst of all, the mere mention of "Cancel Culture" is a Dog-Whistle to them and a Conspiracy Theory. They then try to cancel you for promoting that cancel culture is real. I can't make up that shit!!!
p.s. Sorry,. just trying to hold my breath while watching some breadtube, made me much angrier later when I see just another example out of thousands of the absurdity. I question myself, why did I take this challenge? Can I go on? Maybe skip Innuedo Studios for now, take a break, do some meditation and then the next day try some Contrapoints? It seems to be unable to even watch knowing the realities and the skewing of realities here. Not that I ever believed I'll understand that side, but the insanity (and supported attacks by mainstream blue check marks, not random nobodies (as the people who did send rapethreats from Gamergate, but I can't find any of them,. they are not the front face of it),. that's the difference of the two bubbles, the woke bubble has some nasty ugly stuff that even comes very frequently from mainstream faces, the opposing bubble has nasty stuff but fewer and many of them comes from less known accounts that could even be anyone for all I know)
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Post by dr_st on Jun 20, 2021 15:51:31 GMT -5
The amount of disgust they show, compared to what actually was said, mindblowing!!! Yep. They do this a lot. They try to affect perception of reality by using harsh words that appeal to emotions rather than facts. Then they revel in their own hate. that's the difference of the two bubbles, the woke bubble has some nasty ugly stuff that even comes very frequently from mainstream faces, the opposing bubble has nasty stuff but fewer and many of them comes from less known accounts that could even be anyone for all I know) Yep to that too.
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Lobo
Doomer
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Post by Lobo on Jun 20, 2021 16:28:35 GMT -5
Reminds me of this:
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Post by optimus on Jun 21, 2021 5:10:55 GMT -5
And then I did a big ranty angry video on my other channel and I am almost on the verge to quit this dive as it seems pointless now (or maybe try another channel) I also mention a bit Doomworld and Doomerboards there too, among with my grievance about Demoscene having some woke elements, and then rant long about the Uncle Bob case. I was a bit angry and frustrated and wanted to get it out, not sure if I'll make other videos of this type, I want to return to creative stuff to calm down..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 7:42:48 GMT -5
My advice is that if you are ever going to write something political on the internet, do it anonymously or pseudonymously. Speaking your mind on the internet will likely bring you harm, no matter what position you take. Because there are literally psychotic people reading it.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 21, 2021 7:55:24 GMT -5
optimus, when the left states that a word or phrase is sexist or racist or homophobic, you're not supposed to receive it that you are an evil racist/sexist/homophobic villain for not thinking of it first, or that you're an evil person for having said it or inadvertently believing there was nothing wrong with it when you heard or learned the word. If you really don't believe it, you don't have to. When you change your mindset to genuinely care and being antiracist and anti all the other stuff, some of these new things like "craftsmanship" being sexist don't always stick. The point of the analysis about "craftsmanship" is just one small example out of many about how by simply changing our vocabulary, we can change our world to better reduce hurtful things that are said or done to one another, intentional or not. It is a process in that there are for sure things we do accidentally or otherwise that have sexist racist homophobic implications to them because they were made at a time where racists sexists and homophobes had the authority to decide how things are going to be, and people didn't resist it. We also learned these things before we had the capacity to criticize it. But we don't have to continue to do these things and it's more freeing to change how we think about them than it is to continue doing them while knowing why they were put in place to begin with.
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Lobo
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Post by Lobo on Jun 21, 2021 15:28:45 GMT -5
It's easy. Just remove "man" from everything. That's the end game.
Funny that in the spanish language they have been going for years to convert "masculine"-ending words(spanish has gender) to feminine, but NEVER the other way round.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Jun 21, 2021 16:11:22 GMT -5
Lobo as someone whose native language also has genders I don't think you know what you're talking about. The male gender is usually the "default" gender for words and the female word is derived from it. Think like actor-actress but for almost all words. In my language, words like "teacher" "doctor" "worker" all have a base male form and a female form derived from it via a special suffix or something. No need to put stupid right wing nonsense into it.
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Post by optimus on Jun 21, 2021 16:14:57 GMT -5
I guess should we change "mother nature" to "father nature"? Oh no, this is gonna steal something from women! Maybe "parent nature"?
Seriously, when I see people criticizing words in the english language, then the propose an "innocent" sounding but we care about gender and stereotypes or something, the cause is good. But it's really an insidious game with language. I am not willing to play.
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peerdolius
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I met God and he was THOD - Viper
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Post by peerdolius on Jun 21, 2021 16:42:43 GMT -5
My advice is that if you are ever going to write something political on the internet, do it anonymously or pseudonymously. Speaking your mind on the internet will likely bring you harm, no matter what position you take. Because there are literally psychotic people reading it. 100 fucking percent this. Hide your real identity if you ever even think about talking politics. Way back when I was a wee lad playing Webkinz on a shitty windows XP laptop, my parents always stressed to NEVER reveal any personal details to ANYONE on the internet. Of course back then it was because they were worried about internet predators etc but the older I get, the more reasons become apparent that anonymity is the way to go.
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Lobo
Doomer
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Post by Lobo on Jun 22, 2021 0:10:51 GMT -5
Lobo as someone whose native language also has genders I don't think you know what you're talking about. The male gender is usually the "default" gender for words and the female word is derived from it. Think like actor-actress but for almost all words. In my language, words like "teacher" "doctor" "worker" all have a base male form and a female form derived from it via a special suffix or something. No need to put stupid right wing nonsense into it. There we go! If I'm not hard left then I must be hard right, is that it? In spanish, a lot of the words are neutral and end in "o": this annoys certain groups because it's also the masculine suffix. So they insist on changing them to "a". But never the other way round. Female bomberos are bomberas, but male policia are still policia for example. Even something like Presidente, which doesn't even have the offending "o" has to be changed to Presidenta if it's a woman. Again there is no Presidento.
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dn
Body Count: 02
the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Jun 22, 2021 5:55:13 GMT -5
But *why* this constant battle over language? Who gains from it? Really, so what if they change our tongue slightly? It does no harm. It's easier for the kids to learn! Just be polite and agree, it costs you literally nothing. Be kind! Shitlords.
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Post by optimus on Jun 22, 2021 8:19:20 GMT -5
Lobo as someone whose native language also has genders I don't think you know what you're talking about. The male gender is usually the "default" gender for words and the female word is derived from it. Think like actor-actress but for almost all words. In my language, words like "teacher" "doctor" "worker" all have a base male form and a female form derived from it via a special suffix or something. No need to put stupid right wing nonsense into it. There we go! If I'm not hard left then I must be hard right, is that it? In spanish, a lot of the words are neutral and end in "o": this annoys certain groups because it's also the masculine suffix. So they insist on changing them to "a". But never the other way round. Female bomberos are bomberas, but male policia are still policia for example. Even something like Presidente, which doesn't even have the offending "o" has to be changed to Presidenta if it's a woman. Again there is no Presidento. Oh boy. I don't speak Spanish, but was it I think where the other craze came from, LatinX? It was Latino, Latina,. but now the LatinX is some kind of twisted attempt to make it gender neutral. Of course, a lot of latin people don't like this, they find it ridiculous.
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Lobo
Doomer
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Post by Lobo on Jun 22, 2021 10:05:34 GMT -5
Yeah, my great grandfather got a couple of beatings for speaking his own native tongue. Him and quite a few others.
But it worked: I dont speak a word nor do I know anyone who is fluent.
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dn
Body Count: 02
the motherfucking darknation
Posts: 1,728
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Post by dn on Jun 22, 2021 11:14:18 GMT -5
Yeah, my great grandfather got a couple of beatings for speaking his own native tongue. Him and quite a few others. But it worked: I dont speak a word nor do I know anyone who is fluent. It's worth learning how to do it, just so you can sit in a restaurant within earshot of some authoritarian pricks and loudly insinuate that their mothers are sexually intimate with the contents of the local dog pound. It drives the English fucking insane - they don't speak the lingo but their antennae are *just* well enough developed to know that they are the subject of the conversation, that they are being fucked with . . . yet they can't prove a damn thing. There is nothing quite so infuriating for the colonialist on holiday than Darth Sambo.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Jun 22, 2021 12:19:58 GMT -5
Based dn as always. As a speaker of 4 languages I can confirm it feels nice.
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Post by MegaPancakeStrategist on Jun 22, 2021 14:49:11 GMT -5
My advice is that if you are ever going to write something political on the internet, do it anonymously or pseudonymously. Speaking your mind on the internet will likely bring you harm, no matter what position you take. Because there are literally psychotic people reading it. 100 fucking percent this. Hide your real identity if you ever even think about talking politics. Way back when I was a wee lad playing Webkinz on a shitty windows XP laptop, my parents always stressed to NEVER reveal any personal details to ANYONE on the internet. Of course back then it was because they were worried about internet predators etc but the older I get, the more reasons become apparent that anonymity is the way to go. And now all that those guidelines for surfing the web about not sharing all your personal information has been thrown out for instead urging you to share literally everything you can about yourself. No privacy at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 14:53:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately, even people who are long deceased who have never even logged on to the internet, like my grandfather, have information on them posted on the internet. Such as home address, obituary, age, places of employment, etc. It is usually all of those garbage websites, that pretend to have all this information about criminal records, etc. for a fee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 12:11:35 GMT -5
Power over language is power over people. No wonder language engineering was one of the core aspects of dystopian regime in "Nineteen Eighty-Four" (the novel). The idea that leftists are some kind of hippies that only want you to stop using offensive words and don't actually won't to do you harm - which is what 40oz seeks to promote - is untenable. They are not communicating "you should stop using that" - they are communicating "people must stop endorsing you, you must have no power over others". Even Richard Stallman, who is left as fuck and a Sanders fan, was targeted because of perceived misogyny, and don't think that case is resolved since he is now back at FSF. His reinstatement lead to a heavy debate within, for example, Debian's community, which was ultimately concluded in compromise that no public statement will be issued: www.debian.org/vote/2021/vote_002 . So you see this is not just Doomworld's drama spilling over to Doomer Boards - this happens in other, much bigger communities as well, such as the free software community. And leftists sometimes get targetted by leftists too, so if you think you can avoid being targetted by changing your vocabulary ever so slightly - forget it! Being an independent thinker, having disposition towards fairness and using reason as a guide to what you say or do are all incompatible with the brand of leftism that emerged in present times.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 23, 2021 21:29:16 GMT -5
which is what 40oz seeks to promote - Please dont say stuff like this. If I'm promoting something I don't have any shame in saying it. You can't know what I'm thinking and I can't know what you're thinking, so please only speak for yourself. My understanding of being "targeted" is that it's not something you are supposed to be afraid of. If something you say is harmful and someone tells you, you apologize to them and ask them what the correct thing is to say, and then you say that, and thank the person for informing you. That's all. People who are afraid of being targeted for what they say are principly clinging on to what they believe is right. What is right changes with the times. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you think is right, because what you say is being received by the people that hear you. The terminology you think to yourself is whatever you want to use, as venomous and harmful as you want to choose. But the words you choose to say out loud doesn't effect you. It effects the listener. So it shouldn't matter to you as the speaker what words you need to say if it's important to you that people receive them the way you intended. I don't call it leftism, but what you call "leftism" is people wanting you and others to own some responsibility for how much reach your words have. It wouldn't matter as much if we werent broadcasting our voices across the world like people were never able to before the internet. But these days everyone uses the internet and sometimes someone who is sensitive to the subject matter you are acting like an expert in can really hurt someone, especially if theyve had a traumatic first hand experience related to it and you have not. Its in everyone's best interest to trust that the people you meet on the internet have had a different personal experience about something than you have and believe they are not lying to you when they tell you your words are harmful. There isn't a lot to gain from acting like a victim all the time. It's a very draining way to live, but when people do change as a result, it usually makes the world a better place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 22:35:57 GMT -5
40oz, I can and I will say this stuff, because I consider your position unacceptable, as it defends harming people. You are saying being "targeted" is not an issue, even though there are real life examples of hate campaigns spearheaded by "oppressed" people to remove people over what they said, and they are successful at that. Stallman was promptly removed from FSF, and it took more than a year for a campaign that would dare defend him to start, and him getting reinstated at FSF which is still dividing the free software community. I am not posting links to this drama because I already did in another thread - doomer.boards.net/thread/2110/happens You, however, conveniently ignore (by not responding to) anything that pertains to personal data collection or cancel culture as long as it does not suit your defense of the left. At first, when I joined the forum, I thought you were a follow proponent of anonymity/preudonimity, who is against all kinds of data collection on people, but it seems you are actually ok with that as long as it is not used to drive political actions, such as voting, or keeping conservative/right-leaning people "concerned over what the leftists are doing". You are quite a skilled craftsman when it comes to language, I admit, but fortunately this forum is full of people who won't buy any of this stuff you're writing. For starters, people you are trying to proselytise "apologize and do as the master says" to have personal, very negative experience dealing with leftists not only on the internet but in real life too, an experience your words can't erase because you are ignoring it. You tell they should respect other people words but you don't even respect their own words - the whole history of you ignoring whenever I try to oppose data collection per se rather than data collection to "trigger" right-leaning people that the world is collapsing is proof of that. You don't care what harms us but you say we should care about ys harming others instead - don't you think it should have been a two-way street, that this respect, this correction and apologies should go both ways? And the exact counterpoint to your post is that they don't go both ways. Even in instances when it is limited to just words - which for some reason you seem to exaggerate over instances of cancel culture in action - the left might want us to apologize and recognise we are hurting them, but they won't apologize and recognize they are hurting us. Which does happen, and exactly the reason why people here on this forum don't agree with you. Because they are hurt, and you telling them to ignore it. It's like preaching non-defense when you are being beaten - apologize for punching others, but don't take offense at being punched.
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