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Post by filystyn on Feb 6, 2021 17:21:57 GMT -5
I was meditating some time ago on doom ports. I noticed this forum while passing small group of imps.
Seems there are two approaches - either cool endless features. Or simple doom as it was in 90's. No mods, no looking up and down.
There shall be not much.
I can't enjoy doom 1. Because there is no SSG.
Low multiplayer possibilities. After zandronum we have EOF.
I want to hear the experts and learn about doom.
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xeepeep
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Post by xeepeep on Feb 6, 2021 17:31:28 GMT -5
What?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 21:00:46 GMT -5
Well, this neural network could use some improvement, but to generate leads for this forum, perhaps, a little on-topic advice wouldn't hurt? The very first thing I do in Prboom-Plus is disable uncapped framefrate (while keeping vsync on), that makes the movement good, like in old Doom. And, for 90's authenticity, I enable the horribly misnamed feature called "use doom's buggy 'ouch' face code" under compatibility, because that's what I was used to, for years, and besides the original behavior Doom got released allows better feedback for which direction the hurt came from, whereas the so called 'ouch' face - should have been called 'surprise' face, because it appears when player gets surprise heal while taking damage - lacks said direction and is best suited as an easter egg.
What is wrong with my spelling of "easter", David? The spellchecker is driving me crazy today. To elaborate more on the matter of 'surprise' face, I should add that the word 'surprise' doesn't, by itself, capture the nuances of the situation. Imagine walking in your room with two guys. One holds the chocolate cookie and, facing your direction (use the A_FaceTarget codepointer from p_enemy.c in Doom source code) then suddenly tosses it at you, while the guy behind you kicks you in the balls (from behind!) at the same time, and says: "Surprise!" you instinctively bend over and open your mouth (facial expression like in Doom), catching the cookie in it. Now, the pain may seem high, but the cookie heals you far more, so you instantly recover - but the 'surprise' on your face lasts long enough and everybody laughs their guts out.
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Post by filystyn on Feb 7, 2021 3:17:56 GMT -5
As for movement - I always been a big fan of doom movement.
It feels like you are actually fat.and can't control your body properly. The thing that sucks tho is you can't push monsters and with a monster collision you get immediately stopped.
Suddenly you are not that heavy marine. But a spineless pipsqueak.
I never knew about the supersise healing. Thought it's a smile not a shock face. Like when you pick up a cool weapon or SS.
The face it self was a cool feature but only back then. Today I despise it. The panel just takes too much space.
Simply.
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Post by optimus on Feb 7, 2021 5:17:54 GMT -5
There are two types of fun. With SSG and without SSG.
Sometimes I like low tier monsters, pumping fast with regular shotgun the zombies, shotgunners and imps, etc.
Sometimes it's SSG versus Mancubi, Revenants, Cacodemons, Arch viles.
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dn
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the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Feb 7, 2021 12:15:15 GMT -5
Ultimate Doom master race. Super shootgun shit. Archvile shit. Mancubus retard fuck, Sandy map in bin where belong. Revenant piss fuck off, homing cocksuker cripple skelton eats shit. E4 height of doom, retard says doom2 but retaard hit hed on way out of mum vagina fuk
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
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Post by joe-ilya on Feb 8, 2021 3:16:00 GMT -5
I used to love SSG on mid-tier enemies, but nowadays I prefer to use rocket launcher on them as it's much faster.
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Post by thundercunt on Feb 8, 2021 17:31:15 GMT -5
you want experts. You have come to the right place. With modern source-ports, you can have SSG in doom 1
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Post by filystyn on Feb 9, 2021 16:23:43 GMT -5
Fist ? Even on berserk you can't exploit it. Spawning on E3M1 with revolver versus caco? That is crap doom.
Doom shootgun is no fun. Unless you mod it - it is lame as hell. Chaingun? It can do damage but it's still like faster pistol. You will swap to any other weapon after 5 seconds of using it. Rockets - weapon you get just to be able to kill Baron of Hell in doom without hours spent on running and shooting back. Doom rockets are shit. All they do is damage. the animation and sound tho. Not impressive. Railgun is at least fun to use. BFG. Complete crap weapon. The only cool thing about it is that it somehow is a bit original (the way it works, mechanics ).
So in the end you either use ssg or swap to other game. SSG has power, has sound and has ammo. It's a top tier weapon. While noobs end up in E1M1-4 maps. Shooting imps and zombies with shotgun and ramping shit about how this is the pure doom.
Doom, doom1 was never a challenge. Nightmare hardness is a typical romero brain-dead input. Nothing to do with challenge.
Doom weapons summary. As we can see the weapons choice is poor.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,073
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Post by joe-ilya on Feb 9, 2021 18:39:51 GMT -5
Fist ? Even on berserk you can't exploit it. Spawning on E3M1 with revolver versus caco? That is crap doom.
Doom shootgun is no fun. Unless you mod it - it is lame as hell. Chaingun? It can do damage but it's still like faster pistol. You will swap to any other weapon after 5 seconds of using it. Rockets - weapon you get just to be able to kill Baron of Hell in doom without hours spent on running and shooting back. Doom rockets are shit. All they do is damage. the animation and sound tho. Not impressive. Railgun is at least fun to use. BFG. Complete crap weapon. The only cool thing about it is that it somehow is a bit original (the way it works, mechanics ). So in the end you either use ssg or swap to other game. SSG has power, has sound and has ammo. It's a top tier weapon. While noobs end up in E1M1-4 maps. Shooting imps and zombies with shotgun and ramping shit about how this is the pure doom.
Doom, doom1 was never a challenge. Nightmare hardness is a typical romero brain-dead input. Nothing to do with challenge.
Doom weapons summary. As we can see the weapons choice is poor.
Fist - Can be easily exploited on revs, demons and arch-viles because of their delayed melee, if skillful can be used on almost anything if you've got a proper rhythm with enemy's attacks. Chainsaw - Can be easily exploited on zombiemen, demons, imps, cacos and pain elementals. Pistol - No shit it's shit, that's the point of this one free weapon. Shotgun - Faster than SSG, saves ammo, and great for run and gun against low-tier enemies Chaingun - Quickly kills scattered low-tier enemies. Rocket Launcher - Quickly kills almost every enemy in 3 seconds or less + sweet gibs! Plasma gun - A safer alternative to the Rocket Launcher. BFG - Get gud and maybe you won't hate this weapon so much. SSG - Slow reload, huge random spread, viable only at close range. Every weapon has powers and weaknesses for different situations, you wouldn't use SSG while surrounded with hitscanners, you wouldn't use SSG when you need to kill a big horde ASAP, you wouldn't use SSG on distant turrets, you wouldn't use SSG on distant pain elementals, you wouldn't use SSG all the time when speedrunning, etc. Doom 1 wasn't meant to be a challenge, and nightmare is a joke difficulty made for hardcore people like you. |
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Post by dr_st on Feb 10, 2021 0:38:19 GMT -5
Regular shotgun is just fine against the original DOOM roster. It's the beefed up DOOM II roster where you actually benefit from the SSG. It all makes sense.
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xeepeep
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Post by xeepeep on Feb 10, 2021 2:00:07 GMT -5
If you unironically like the super shotgun you're literally gay, it's the weapon for Doomworld cucks who enjoy slaughter maps and think the more purple a map has, the better it is
Plain shotgun any day. Great accuracy, rate of fire and damage. No reason not to use it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 11:32:58 GMT -5
Have you played Sunder too much? Full-on slaughter maps are centered around more powerful weapons than the SSG - rocket launcher, plasma rifle and BFG. SSG is too fucking slow for killing large amount of meat. Rocket launcher could make even the quad shotgun almost redundant. I once made a mod where I beefed up all weapons except the three ones that dominate slaughter - and posted it somewhere on this boards, too bad never made it boom-compatible - possible to reach negative shotgun ammo by shooting quad shotgun if loaded in Boom compatibility. I noticed that using the trio of most powerful weapons from vanilla is still more intuitive and strategically appropriate than using the beefed up weapons under 1-4 numbers - so the mod would only be really useful if one made maps specifically for it.
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Lobo
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Post by Lobo on Feb 12, 2021 6:37:18 GMT -5
...slaughter maps and think the more purple a map has, the better it is What it with that? Purple/Red and black=DW award? |
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 12, 2021 11:45:23 GMT -5
I agree with filystyn that doom's weapon roster isn't really fantastic. In general, most weapons outclass each other. That's part of the ascending order of Doom's weapons. I agree some have noisy or uninteresting sound effects. It's a product of its time and not "balanced" like they are in shooters today. Most modern games had to learn from Doom. Though more experienced players will find useful applications for all of Doom's weapons. Mappers will design challenge levels that lean on the player knowing these strengths and weaknesses of each weapon. So the community has been retroactively balancing the game out with the content it creates. The IWAD levels themselves are not timeless. I also agree that Doom's movement is the primary driver of its fun. The collision in the engine is really good, has very few glitches, and couple with dumb AI in massive numbers, the application of outsmarting the monsters with superior dodging makes the game what it is. It would be fun to shove the monsters out of the way, but too many slaughter maps were designed with massive hordes trying to box you in as part of its design, so adding this in after the fact would kinda ruin it. If you like moving monsters out of the way, the rocketlauncher is the best at it, but also has splash damage, so you gotta be smart about how you use it. I find it to be the most fun weapon in the game. |
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