korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 19, 2020 22:16:45 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 19, 2020 22:16:45 GMT -5
I wanted to make a 5* map wad called MAZE OF DEATH. I can design the maps myself, pick out and or compose music myself, and I can add textures to the map and things to it all myself in doom builder 2. What I cannot do is learn to build the actual maps and make things like lifts and exits work. I know I could learn--the thing is, I prefer not to. I still try to learn it myself and I fail with every try. I know someone will reply to this post with a "well just practice!" or a "if you learn how, you'll get better!" but I will ignore those responses** as I get them too many times when talking about inability to do certain things instead of people taking my word for it.
I prefer someone with actual experience to do these. I want these maps to be as functional as possible*** because I want people to find and play them. The worse they are, the least people will want to try them out. I am willing to pay**** but if I must pay someone I most certainly cannot promise a large amount whatsoever. A good example would be 5$ a map. For a 5 map wad that would equal 25 bucks. I would not pay for the 6th one as it is only 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and an exit. Just to end the map. If you know how to make maps I estimate that this would only take less than 15 minutes considering the small amount of effort required and the lack of an ability to texture it and add things. I have stated that I can do that much myself. Every man has something they need to do and I understand that.
Should you choose to obtain more information, you can PM me.
It is worth stating that I have tried to get this done on a different forum. I will not name the forum. Some things that were said on that forum:
"You're asking people to make map for you, but yet you have nothing to show from concept art, screenshots, no mention of mapping format or size or texture pack."
To that person I reiterated: That's reserved for those who offer to do it. I give them all of that. I don't post it on the forum for everyone cause some people don't want it. And my plan is to get people to actually play it. The more shit released publicly, the more people already know about the map, and everyone will know how to beat it before trying because it'll all be out there.
"Besides, $5 is laughably low. 15 minutes and probably more would be dedicated to merely planning out the map."
To those saying it's a low price, you gotta understand that it's not because I'm being cheap, it's not because I'm not willing to pay large amounts for it, it's that I literally can't. I am constantly broke because where I live I'm not legally old enough to get a job (Believe me, I want one). I would pay a LOT more but you need to understand that I don't have a LOT more to pay you.
Also I'm the one who plans out the maps. I draw it all down, I explain it all, and someone else builds it. They don't have to plan it out or design it because I already dun did that.
MORE INFO: This mod would be used for DooM II: Hell on Earth. It would be vanilla, classic format. There are many rooms and very many hallways but they are generally not very large. An example of room size would be that one room on MAP01 of Hell on Earth, the room with 4 lifts which each its own zombieman standing on top of it. It also has a secret with two stimpacks and a green armor. Hallway size would be around the size of the hallway on that same level leading to the room, only 1/3 longer. I prefer to keep the mod as close to my idea as possible unless there is some issue or potential improvement to be made. I prefer the map builder to consult me about it first and ask whether or not to add/remove something. If they want to design one of the maps themselves (Not requiring it, not even suggesting it, would only allow it if the mapper asked me themselves) I would probably say yes as it saves me part of a job and it'd be nice to play someone else's map too. I would accpet feedback on level design.
Something I was asked:
"I have questions...
When you say 'design the maps', what exactly does that mean? Are you just providing ideas, or are you providing some actual map geometry?
And when you say you 'cannot build the actual maps', does that mean you only struggle with functionality (lifts, doors, teleports, exits, etc), or does that mean you struggle with adding any kind of map geometry at all?"
My answers were: Providing map geometry, struggle with functionality
"If you are aiming at something like 15 minutes per map"
I only said the exit would take less than that. I cannot say for sure the other 5 would take the same amount.
CLEARING UP A FEW MISCONCEPTIONS:
1. No, it doesn't have to be 5$ a map. I can negotiate prices with anyone who wants to. 5$ is just what I can (maybe) afford and it is an example
2. No, it's not that I'm not willing to learn how to do it myself. It's just that I feel like the idea I came up with is the best one I have made yet. I want it to made and be as good as possible and if it's my first map and all made by myself, it won't be perfect. I know that "nothing's perfect" but perfect is an opinion that varies from person to person. Even if perfection cannot be achieved, I want the closest thing possible.
3. Yes, I have tried to learn. I have watched youtube tutorials. I have not gotten the hang of it even remotely. I get nowhere with it
4. I haven't already posted about my inability to make functional maps because I rarely even do anything doom-related in terms of creations and rarely think of it.
I have tried this elsewhere and people just didn't read my posts there. They kept posting the same questions that had been pre-answered and kept acting like I give no information when it's right in front of them. One person on that site PMed me this site saying the people here are more chill then the people over on the other site, and I'm just testing that by posting my old stuff to see what I can find with it here. I originally got son mad I decided I would scrap the project but I still had the level drawings so I thought maybe I should not give up. I will perservere through this and keep searching over and over and over until I find that one helpful person. I'm not counting on it entirely, but it'd be great if I found that person here and could end my search.
-J
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Feb 19, 2020 22:42:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 22:42:24 GMT -5
Well just practice, if you learn how, you'll get better! $5 per map is pretty low, I'll do it for.... ONE MILLION DOLLARS! That's my usual going rate that DBP inc pays me per DBP map. I wouldn't even know where to begin for trying to work out a real rate for making a map. There's a lot of involved, time and labour etc... You'd be hiring a "specialist" at an industry rate, and this industry being software this could run into hundreds of dollars per hour if going by professional rates. Also there's more involved to mapping than just drawing a design on paper and giving it to someone who knows how to use an editor and asking them to do it for you. Also what's your endgame here? The pleasure and fun is in the actual mapping process itself. Do you want a to have a project that you can claim you made yourself to show off and try to impress people? Because if so, you've got the wrong game bro. Nobody is impressed by Doom except us Doomers. Save your money or find another game, or even better learn to map, preferably with less or no mazes at all. Seriously though, just practice... if you learn how, you'll get better.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Feb 19, 2020 23:41:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 23:41:22 GMT -5
If you want maps for Vanilla Doom then honestly I'd just recommend learning how to use the super easy modern tool of GZDoom Builder or the new Ultimate Doom Builder. All you'd have to do is draw some rooms (right-click and play connect the dots), play with the sector effects, put some monsters and guns down to play with and you'll have a map ready real easily. I'd also recommend mapping for the Ultimate Doom because it has better textures and more basic gameplay. Once you've made a map just replace the sky and put some music on it through SLADE 3. If you've gone as far as trying to make a map yourself with some results even if bare and then have more questions you can ask me and I will help. If you want maps made by someone else only because you want your own project recognized then sorry but no one is going to do that for you unless it's a community project that naturally gathers interest. No one wants to map for someone that refuses to map themselves (oh no I'm speaking for people other than myself I hate that and now I'm a hypocrite aaa). You'll just have to quit sweating the small stuff and map until you can make better maps then. You can keep your 5 bucks. Oh and please give your thread a title next time. While my post is not of a 'chill' demeanor I just want to be straight with you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Feb 20, 2020 0:20:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 0:20:45 GMT -5
Here's some encouragement: Set the Lift action you want to the Linedef(s) that directly interact with the Lift. Note the small pegs sticking out of the 4 highlighted Linedef(s) as the direction that they are facing towards determines the direction of how it is interacted with by the Player. The (sample) Life Action 123 starts with "SR" with 'S' meaning Switch and 'R' meaning Repeatable then when the Player presses the Use key against this Linedef it will apply the Lift Action to the appropriately tagged Sector(s). The Linedef(s) possess the Tag of "1" and so the Lift Sector that you want to be a Lift must also have the Tag of "1" to function accordingly.
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 1:34:58 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 1:34:58 GMT -5
Set the Lift action you want to the Linedef(s) that directly interact with the Lift. Note the small pegs sticking out of the 4 highlighted Linedef(s) as the direction that they are facing towards determines the direction of how it is interacted with by the Player. The (sample) Life Action 123 starts with "SR" with 'S' meaning Switch and 'R' meaning Repeatable then when the Player presses the Use key against this Linedef it will apply the Lift Action to the appropriately tagged Sector(s). The Linedef(s) possess the Tag of "1" and so the Lift Sector that you want to be a Lift must also have the Tag of "1" to function accordingly. You are using a lot of big words
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 1:35:36 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 1:35:36 GMT -5
Well just practice, if you learn how, you'll get better! $5 per map is pretty low, I'll do it for.... ONE MILLION DOLLARS! That's my usual going rate that DBP inc pays me per DBP map. I wouldn't even know where to begin for trying to work out a real rate for making a map. There's a lot of involved, time and labour etc... You'd be hiring a "specialist" at an industry rate, and this industry being software this could run into hundreds of dollars per hour if going by professional rates. Also there's more involved to mapping than just drawing a design on paper and giving it to someone who knows how to use an editor and asking them to do it for you. Also what's your endgame here? The pleasure and fun is in the actual mapping process itself. Do you want a to have a project that you can claim you made yourself to show off and try to impress people? Because if so, you've got the wrong game bro. Nobody is impressed by Doom except us Doomers. Save your money or find another game, or even better learn to map, preferably with less or no mazes at all. Seriously though, just practice... if you learn how, you'll get better. If I was bill fuckin gates, that million bucks is yours
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 1:45:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 1:45:07 GMT -5
Hahahahaha.... I’m pulling for you to win the lottery dude But seriously, learn to map, it’s fucken fun yo!
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 1:49:42 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 1:49:42 GMT -5
Hahahahaha.... I’m pulling for you to win the lottery dude But seriously, learn to map, it’s fucken fun yo! I would figure it is. I don't usually like saying this cause more people just make fun of me for it, but the real reason I can't make these is: I can't figure out how to make functioning doors/switches/exits work. I can make rooms I can texture them I can add things I can add hallways but I can't make a door or a lift or a switch or an exit. The tutorials just aren't very clear to me
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 2:07:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 2:07:30 GMT -5
Alright, I’m not gonna bore you with big words but this is an exit: at the end of your map click on a line you want to be your exit switch. Go to actions. Select number 11, which is exit switch. Now whack a switch texture on it so peeps know it’s a switch. They start with SW1. Any SW1 texture will do, don’t worry about aesthetics until you understand how it works. Do that shit, see it works and be happy, then come back to me and I’ll try to explain doors and lifts in a simple fashion.
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
Posts: 588
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Feb 20, 2020 2:39:42 GMT -5
Post by dmdr on Feb 20, 2020 2:39:42 GMT -5
dude honestly you'd get a much better response if you produced something for people to work off of. You say you can make geometry and texture stuff, so make some geometry, texture it, post it up here or on doomworld and say 'hey dudes I did this but I'm struggling with making doors and lifts and things, does someone wanna collaborate on this by helping me with the technical stuff?' and someone will almost certainly be willing to help (if you want to keep things more private, just some screenshots to show your work would probably be enough).
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,071
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Feb 20, 2020 4:16:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by joe-ilya on Feb 20, 2020 4:16:13 GMT -5
Damn, dude, you are so lazy to make basic functions, that you're willing to throw money at people to do the "boring" stuff for you.
How does that even work? How would you know how the geometry and enemies would work for the gameplay when you don't test what will happen, makes me think that your mappack is just a series of flat and bland literal hallways and rooms connected with doors and lifts, so no knowledge of future combat is required, especially with the name "maze of death".
Despite all that, I'd take the 10-minute job if I could.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 4:30:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 4:30:24 GMT -5
Employ the Joe yo, you need it? He’ll map it The thread starter dude may not know functions but I’ll give top marks for not having a thread title and having the thread describer do the hard and fitting work, that’s clever stuff
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 4:35:55 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 4:35:55 GMT -5
Employ the Joe yo, you need it? He’ll map it The thread starter dude may not know functions but I’ll give top marks for not having a thread title and having the thread describer do the hard and fitting work, that’s clever stuff I just signed up to this place, looks kinda different. Forgot to look for the title thing anyway. My bad
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 4:46:55 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 4:46:55 GMT -5
Damn, dude, you are so lazy to make basic functions, that you're willing to throw money at people to do the "boring" stuff for you. I. HATE. Being called lazy. I would do it if I could. I can't, that's the issue. everyone who tries explaining explains it in such a confusing way that I just have a hard time. And don't call me lazy when I'm literally supposed to do most of the work on it: I'm the one who adds things, textures, tests the maps to make sure they fit my designs, I design the whole thing start to finish, I would make the music, the title card, a few graphics, all tons of shit and you call me lazy when all you would have to do is make the rooms I want, hallways I want, lifts I want, and exits I want. I would do EVERYTHING else, and you overlook that and call me lazy for asking that someone does the one small part I can't do. Like, did you even READ my post? And as for the "boring" stuff, I never called it fucking boring, I said I can't do it. I didn't say I was bored with doing it. I'd love to do it, but I cannot do it, and I know many people can so I ask if someone could, and even offer money, sure it's a small amount but I try to give them SOMETHING in hope that MAYBE I'll get somewhere and even am willing to negotiate higher prices. But what do I get? I get called lazy and treated like I'm not willing to work. This happened on the other site too, people just started insulting me and calling me things I'm not without even reading my damn post. It's evident that you haven't read everything I said because if you had you'd realize I'm willing to do most of the whole project and all you'd have to do is build the rooms, hallways, and exit/lift functions. And the levels themselves are extremely simple, not complicated at all. I admit you didn't know how complicated and still don't because you haven't seen any screenshots but my point stands: I'm willing to let any takers for this job do just the basic thing I can't figure out and I do all the other work that actually makes the map what it's supposed to be. You might as well not respond to this post cause chances are you didn't read it. If you did read it, let me know you read it, and maybe I'll encourage you to read the original post too. As I said, "I can design the maps myself, pick out and or compose music myself, and I can add textures to the map and things to it all myself in doom builder 2." I'm sure you know what things are since you're a doom person and things is one of the only terms I can figure out on doom editors.
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 4:51:01 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 4:51:01 GMT -5
Alright, I’m not gonna bore you with big words but this is an exit: at the end of your map click on a line you want to be your exit switch. Go to actions. Select number 11, which is exit switch. Now whack a switch texture on it so peeps know it’s a switch. They start with SW1. Any SW1 texture will do, don’t worry about aesthetics until you understand how it works. Do that shit, see it works and be happy, then come back to me and I’ll try to explain doors and lifts in a simple fashion. Thank you, will try right now EDIT: You're a lifesaver, it works. I could've never figured that out on my own.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 4:51:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 4:51:25 GMT -5
Hey I wasn’t mocking your lack of thread titleness, I actually thought it creative given what your asking.
And Joe’s right. This is lazy. In Doom, there is no “I’m designing the map, you’re just doing the the dirty work.” In Doom, mapper is king, and everyone who has replied to you here are top tier mappers, yes even Joe. This is why you get the responses you do on various forums, you don’t understand the world you’re stepping in to.
You can draw what you want, but the mapper is artiste extraordinaire, you’ll just be a passenger pretending to own your “employee’s” ride. Learn, create, and be master of your own domain.
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korndog
Doomer
despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Posts: 15
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Feb 20, 2020 5:06:25 GMT -5
Post by korndog on Feb 20, 2020 5:06:25 GMT -5
Hey I wasn’t mocking your lack of thread titleness, I actually thought it creative given what your asking. And Joe’s right. This is lazy. In Doom, there is no “I’m designing the map, you’re just doing the the dirty work.” In Doom, mapper is king, and everyone who has replied to you here are top tier mappers, yes even Joe. This is why you get the responses you do on various forums, you don’t understand the world you’re stepping in to. You can draw what you want, but the mapper is artiste extraordinaire, you’ll just be a passenger pretending to own your “employee’s” ride. Learn, create, and be master of your own domain. yeah yeah yeah, whatever, I just hate being called lazy when I'm designing the whole thing. you taught me exits now, can you please teach me how to do more
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 5:42:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 5:42:49 GMT -5
I’ll give you the beginners guide to doors and lifts tomorrow, I’m going to bed now... don’t be late for class yo and bring an apple... laced with Glenfiddich
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 6:44:27 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 6:44:27 GMT -5
yeah yeah yeah, whatever, I just hate being called lazy when I'm designing the whole thing. pics or it isn't happening
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,071
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Feb 20, 2020 7:00:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by joe-ilya on Feb 20, 2020 7:00:43 GMT -5
The thing is, you don't show us anything when asked, I'd call you lazy for that, not willing to make the most simple actions, that's also lazy, don't tell us that you make the rest of the maps, show us, we haven't seen anything that you've made, for all I know you could've just made flat STARTAN2 mazes with doors and lifts and called it a day.
To make doors ; put action number 1 on the door. To make lifts ; put action 123 on the lift, give it a tag number, and give the lift sector the same tag.
Is that so hard to do? I don't understand, too complicated to put a couple of numbers? How old are you anyway? I put actions in my first maps when I was 13, I also put some advanced things like slopes, deep water and 3D floors during that age, so the complexity that you suggest sounds like BS, I'm not some kind of a prodigy, never designed levels before in my life or wrote any code.
Do you map in UDMF format perhaps? If you do, then switch to Doom/2 format to ease things up, that might've been your problem in the first place.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 8:43:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 8:43:04 GMT -5
Someone just PM him already to ask to see the maps, and then tell us whether they actually exist.
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xeepeep
Banned
Forever
Posts: 2,338
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Feb 20, 2020 9:45:12 GMT -5
Post by xeepeep on Feb 20, 2020 9:45:12 GMT -5
Hi Jason, I've been wondering what become out of this. If you don't wanna learn to map, then I'm totally down to make your maps, for some of them sweet $$$ of course
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,071
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Feb 20, 2020 10:13:49 GMT -5
Post by joe-ilya on Feb 20, 2020 10:13:49 GMT -5
I wonder how long until ghostmapping would be a thing.
EDIT : Why does it have to be PM anyway? Why post this publicly then?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 10:34:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 10:34:20 GMT -5
I was considering mapping out what he wanted if he showed an easy to follow layout. EDIT: korndog yeah pay xeep to do it
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Feb 20, 2020 11:14:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 11:14:56 GMT -5
This is all bullshit until proven otherwise I find extremely odd that you can draw sectors and change texturing but can't understand how tags and action works even after looking for tutorials. Most importantly you aren't even coherent in what you say, you start with "What I cannot do is learn to build the actual maps", then "I'm the one who plans out the maps. I draw it all down, I explain it all, and someone else builds it" then to explain later that you can draw geometry??? Presumably. And do you know how to change sector height and lighting at least?
I can understand wanting to keep the project a secret but you also have to understand that coming to a place and asking people to do work for you without even a little showcase of what you can do doesn't build trust, and the unclear presentation doesn't help you either. It's not like people can figure out the whole map with only a screenshot, and if they can bad news for you. If you are legit and don't want to ruin this project with your inexperience you can make some standalone maps to understand how things work and getting back to this project later with more experience. And keep in mind that an experienced mapper doing just lifts and doors won't fix your map if the layout and the gameplay sucks.
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