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Post by hardcoregamer on Jun 11, 2018 8:59:59 GMT -5
Let's face it you are never going to be good at math unless you have some kind of innate talent for it. I use calculators most of the time because I just struggle handling large amount of different numbers in my head at the same tame. Yet people today seem more convinced than ever that everybody can do everything as long as they put their hearts to it even though there is overwhelming evidence that this isn't true. Things become even more absurd when it comes to attractiveness and fitness. Literally everything about what you look like is 100% genetics, except maybe how fat you are since this depends largely on calories consumed. But otherwise there isn't that much you can do to change what you look like since stuff like bone structure and hormones are all out of your control.
I feel like I'm one of the only people who feel this way. It's like everywhere you go people are just delusional and buy into all of the "be whatever you want" crap even though it flies in the face of all the scientific evidence and facts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 9:46:08 GMT -5
Which people are in denial? Tell me who to get angry at bro, I’ll give them a good cunting just for you. One example should suffice.
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Post by Li'l devil on Jun 11, 2018 9:52:32 GMT -5
Sadly, genetics are a very important thing. Even sadder, genetics is what largerly determines how long one will live and how much they are vulnerable to diseases. If they have a healthy life style, but bad genetics, their life style won't save them.
But I don't agree about "what you look like is 100% genetics". It's obvious that one can radically change their appearence using various means like plastic surgery, &c.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 10:07:25 GMT -5
Is it Li'l devil , hardcoregamer dude? He’s looking very much like he fits your example to the T. Li'l devil why are you doing this to our good Icelandic brother? Can’t you see he’s suffering you cunt? Can’t you just shut up and agree with him? Actually in seriousness hardcore misses half of it while small devil misses the other half. Plastic surgery should be considered like performance enhancing drugs: not allowed under competition conditions and should expel you from the race. The human one. Note that I’m not talking about people who suffer severe burns for example, then that would be for medical purposes and not for recreational usage. The other side of hardcore’s argument essentially boils down to nature vs nurture, of which there are countless examples that prove points for both and can be found easily by yourselves for whatever side of the argument you want to believe. Personally I recommend the educational film Trading Places, a wonderful thoughtful study into this nature v nurture conundrum. In reality though, you can be whatever you want to be, provided it is in fact based in reality and that you’re not a complete fuckwit. I’m sure one will find their life quite unbearable and depressing one day if what they want is a functioning tail for example.
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Post by hardcoregamer on Jun 11, 2018 10:09:19 GMT -5
Which people are in denial? Tell me who to get angry at bro, I’ll give them a good cunting just for you. One example should suffice. Just almost everybody in life. Telling people that genetics is everything will very quickly make you unpopular because people don't want their delusions destroyed.
But I don't agree about "what you look like is 100% genetics". It's obvious that one can radically change their appearence using various means like plastic surgery, &c.
Surgery won't change your bone structure.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 10:14:21 GMT -5
In seriousness seriousness, context is probably the key missing ingredient you’re facing H.G.... Are you telling people that only genetics matter and that free will and thought are illusions for example? Can you give a shortish sample of discussion about this?
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agent6
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Post by agent6 on Jun 11, 2018 10:16:58 GMT -5
In seriousness seriousness, context is probably the key missing ingredient you’re facing H.G.... Are you telling people that only genetics matter and that free will and thought are illusions for example? Can you give a shortish sample of discussion about this? Pretty much. They might be important in determining some things, but everything to be tied to them? I find that questionable at the very least.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 10:25:03 GMT -5
Let’s use a video game reference, an rpg type one where you level up if you will. Genetics form your base skill, stamina, luck, and looks. What you do from then on in you can blame yourself for, and some foolish idea that genetics is the absolute be all and end all is bullshit and abdicates a person from their own responsibility.
Adam Sandler version: Genetics is the pizza base, while what you learn and are taught and what you experience and how you deal with situations in your life is the pizza topping. You can be a boring old vegetarian Margherita and blame others for their genetics because they got the olives. Or you can grab this life by the neck and live it well and be a pizza with the lot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 10:37:11 GMT -5
Having observed the bodybuilding world for decades, there are just tons and tons of examples of this. It's rampant. The line usually goes something like this: "People who claim they don't have the genes to get big are just lazy bro. Just work harder and buy my special e-book to learn the secrets of how to get BIG!!!"
The main reason that people in this industry espouse that rhetoric comes down to money. They are trying to sell you something, and they don't give a fuck whether you live, die, or something in between as long as they make their living off of you buying some potentially harmful training program filled with zany new exercises that don't work as well as the tried and true lifts from 100 years ago, or some fart powder or other useless supplement that you'll just end up pissing out.
The only supplements that work aren't classed as supplements at all. They are classed as drugs. They fall under the category of Performance-Enhancing Drugs, or PEDs, like anabolic steroids, insulin, and cutting agents. These things work, but not without massive side effects. And in the end, even with those powerful drugs you cannot go beyond a certain point, and that point is determined by guess what......your genes! You'll never be the bodybuilder that Arnold or Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler or Dorian Yates was, even with all the drugs in the world, because you don't have their genetic base.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 11, 2018 11:00:25 GMT -5
I dont talk about genetics much but I dont think I've ever run into a genetics denier. For example, its almost always obvious with anyone I've talked to that children with a certain facial structure also have biological parents with that same facial structure.
What would an enemy of genetics even believe in?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 11:07:23 GMT -5
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Post by hardcoregamer on Jun 11, 2018 11:34:10 GMT -5
Let’s use a video game reference, an rpg type one where you level up if you will. Genetics form your base skill, stamina, luck, and looks. What you do from then on in you can blame yourself for
No, this isn't how genetics work. There are many things about you that cannot be improved via practice. To use math as an example again, it isn't possible to improve your ability to do math in your head because the ability to do so is determined by how powerful your cognitive functions are, which has nothing to do with practice. A better representation of the real world using an rpg as an example would be to say that individuals with better genetics have a higher total level they can reach and also level up faster as well. Meaning:
Bad genetics:
Max level: 25 EXP per min: 5
Average genetics:
Max level: 50 EXP per min: 10
Good genetics:
Max level 100 EXP per min 20
Etc
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agent6
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Post by agent6 on Jun 11, 2018 12:45:05 GMT -5
Genetics aside, talking about this "you can do everything" mentality, that one is getting more and more annoying. It's always good to push your limits to see what you're truly capable of, but people really should accept when something is beyond them. A little realism really doesn't hurt, but this folk will probably just tell you "you're just lazy and hate effort" (I'm hearing this on almost a daily basis, some people really never learn...). No, if you're terrible at something no matter what you do, then leave it and face reality.
Reminds me of what LaVey said once, perhaps man is indeed the only animal that can lie to himself and actually believe it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 13:35:32 GMT -5
Literally everything about what you look like is 100% genetics, except maybe how fat you are since this depends largely on calories consumed. But otherwise there isn't that much you can do to change what you look like since stuff like bone structure and hormones are all out of your control.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this. Have you ever googled pictures of celebrities with no makeup? A lot of them appear staggeringly bland when caught "off guard". They look fantastic on TV because they put a shitload of effort into getting proper makeup, choosing fitting clothes, learning to move gracefully, and so on. Now, most of us obviously can't afford as much as they do, but still you can achieve so much just by taking care of your hair, thinking about your shirt choices, etc. Or, even if you can't be arsed to do any of that, there is another nifty trick you can use. You can just smile. Most people look adorable and attractive when they smile, and they give everyone around so much energy just by doing that. (another good simple advice that was given somewhere on this forum is to keep your back straight) So no, in my opinion you're totally in control of this unless you have some serious birth defects. Though I have a feeling that you were talking about something slightly different (i.e. "naked" appearance), sorry if that is the case.
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BattleKorbi
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Post by BattleKorbi on Jun 11, 2018 14:06:41 GMT -5
Ooh boy, you guys if you haven't hated me already, you SURE will now!Because, it is I! Who likes to say, that genetics aren't to blame! Of course, I know, genetics are important, this and that, but, at the same time, kinda not. Its good for groundwork, for the base work, like: You can do this, you can do that, you can't do this, you can't do that, your task is to: survive.Now, before you guys reach for the report button, and before I get banned for being a stupid fuck, lemme tell you what I think: To say that genetics would dictate everything you do or are to be blamed on everything that ever happens to you and what you do, is, to me, stupid. Mostly because, when I was a fat boi, I used that excuse a lot. I now use the "genetics" as mostly as motivation for losing weight, because its a thing within my bloodline to catch diabetes more easily (by a little margin) than other people, and losing weight/being careful will help a lot with all the "don't catch the bad thing" game. Nonetheless, isn't genetics the last thing on the list you would put a blame on for stuff happening? I don't think the mindset behind "You can do everything" doesn't necessarily mean "Genetics are a hoax lul", it mostly has to do with tons of other things first. Like, I dunno, motivation, perhaps, external circumstances at most. But most of it stems from the basic element of human nature: curiosity and the ever-evolving question of "How do you know what will happen unless you try?". It's how we survived in the past, lol. Now we have the advantage of modern medicine telling us what each and every human is allergic to, sparing 80% of the population the suffering one would go through just by, lets say, sampling a peanut. But that really isn't it. There is more to this mindset than it meets the eye. I am no psychology expert, but I can surely say it has quite a lot of positive effect on people. How would you feel knowing that you won't run nearly as fast as your neighbor? How do you feel knowing you will have memory issues when you grow old? How do you feel knowing you are going to catch diabetes by the time you reach 50? Like, no matter what you do, no matter what you say, this shit will happen to you. Feels shitty doesn't it? Not only that, but we humans, we like to fight, we like to say "Screw you destiny!" and we would work towards averting such fate no matter what. So, then, not only we would dread such days, we would purposefully leave ourselves out of experiences and things that happen in real life in a attempt to avert the coming of such days. We would live like monks, praying for deliverance, for salvation, because, there is hope. We may say "Okay, I accept that", but how much of that would remain truth after a while? You say you would accept it, but deep down, you know you wouldn't. You would fight it, with tears or fists, you don't want to be limited, you don't want to be trapped, within your own body. You are it's pilot, and fuck whoever told you you are going to die at 87. So, all in all, a shitty experience right? Why don't we just skip that all? I mean, how would we know this and that would happen by the time it gets there, without trying it, without living it? Deeper research, I hear? Educating the masses, I hear? Fuck, I will close my ears, then. It's a waste of air. How will we know a train would arrive by it's designated time? We never surely know, unless we are the one riding it, and we are the one doing the math, but still, even then, we don't know. I'm dipping into philosophy here, but basically my point: It's good to have an "optimistic" viewpoint like that one. You guys might not need it, but, oh boy, some people desperately need one. I see people giving up from various shit because they can't do one or two things, how would blaming it all on genetics help them? Yes, I hear you say "Then they are weak and pathetic fools", but, haven't we all been at that stage where giving up seemed so sweet and finding an excuse was a lifetime goal? Look at where you are now. Heck, how many successful people wouldn't have even made it into history if they adopted such a pessimistic mindset. Only people who did were, ironically, poets And now you can get me banned because my very presence here threatens the fabric of the universe bla bla bla
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dn
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Post by dn on Jun 11, 2018 15:11:30 GMT -5
No, this isn't how genetics work. There are many things about you that cannot be improved via practice. To use math as an example again, it isn't possible to improve your ability to do math in your head because the ability to do so is determined by how powerful your cognitive functions are, which has nothing to do with practice. Sounds like crap head-cannon to me, a shit philosophy to hand-wavium failure and justify not trying harder / bothering your arse. The people I know who have gotten along in life are the ones who work and don't use being an irredeemable genetic retard as an excuse not to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 15:52:17 GMT -5
Like
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 11, 2018 20:49:01 GMT -5
Ooh boy, you guys if you haven't hated me already, you SURE will now!Theres no denying that genetics are a factor, but you're definitely right that its not an excuse to stop trying. The optimism and motivation to go against the odds can still yield some pretty awesome results even if the battle is a little harder for one person than it is for another.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 3:18:32 GMT -5
Like like
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agent6
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Post by agent6 on Jun 12, 2018 4:29:24 GMT -5
Ooh boy, you guys if you haven't hated me already, you SURE will now!Theres no denying that genetics are a factor, but you're definitely right that its not an excuse to stop trying. The optimism and motivation to go against the odds can still yield some pretty awesome results even if the battle is a little harder for one person than it is for another. Pretty much. Still, a little realism never hurts. How can I put it... let's say some things are just not meant for you, so should that be the case it's best to just redirect the energy and effort on something else, something you know is attainable.
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Post by hardcoregamer on Jun 12, 2018 8:52:37 GMT -5
If you are so convinced that genetics aren't vital for success in life, then how do you explain the fallowing:
1. There are virtually no programmers with below average IQ. 2. All fitness models and bodybuilders have similar skeleton structures. 3. Ditto for athletes except that what kind of bones work best varies depending on the sport.
Yes I know the IQ doesn't matter equally for all types of jobs and that there is more to intelligence than just IQ, since IQ tests really only test math ability and the ability to locate patterns, but for many jobs such as programming those traits are very useful. And research has shown that IQ remains pretty much the same across your whole life.
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Aisleen
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Post by Aisleen on Jun 12, 2018 9:09:31 GMT -5
If you are so convinced that genetics aren't vital for success in life, then how do you explain the fallowing: 1. There are virtually no programmers with below average IQ. 2. All fitness models and bodybuilders have similar skeleton structures. 3. Ditto for athletes except that what kind of bones work best varies depending on the sport. Yes I know the IQ doesn't matter equally for all types of jobs and that there is more to intelligence than just IQ, since IQ tests really only test math ability and the ability to locate patterns, but for many jobs such as programming those traits are very useful. And research has shown that IQ remains pretty much the same across your whole life. Can you source where these come from?
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dn
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Post by dn on Jun 12, 2018 11:50:09 GMT -5
I'm really skeptical about IQ tests being worth jack shit. In fact, there is a strong correlation between a man outright stating his IQ score and that man being a massive gangling torpedo.
You inherit a lot more from your parents than genetics, regardless. You also get their work ethic, a percentage of their wealth and their position in society. The last one is HUGE: corruption starts as nepotism every single fucking time.
Go look at the rich lists. Look at your fucking political dynasties. This shit isn't fucking genetic.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 18:12:22 GMT -5
dn speaks the harsh truth HG, accept it.
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Post by hardcoregamer on Jun 14, 2018 11:03:15 GMT -5
If you are so convinced that genetics aren't vital for success in life, then how do you explain the fallowing: 1. There are virtually no programmers with below average IQ. 2. All fitness models and bodybuilders have similar skeleton structures. 3. Ditto for athletes except that what kind of bones work best varies depending on the sport. Yes I know the IQ doesn't matter equally for all types of jobs and that there is more to intelligence than just IQ, since IQ tests really only test math ability and the ability to locate patterns, but for many jobs such as programming those traits are very useful. And research has shown that IQ remains pretty much the same across your whole life. Can you source where these come from?
All you need to do is google "IQ by job" or something along those lines and you get dozens of results. Here is just one:
Computer programmers had an average iq of about 110. For software engineers its 116.
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