Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 0:03:48 GMT -5
Mark giving no fucks yo Brutal Doom is not my cup of tea but kudos to whatever gets people interested in any form of Doom. The amount of salt that follows in BD’s wake however is quite extraordinary. sarais I’m looking at you particularly bro, you didn’t exactly acquit yourself well over there on moddb. I see that a common complaint is that Mark appropriates other peoples assets without due credit. Boo fucking hoo, if id gave us full reign over modding Doom, I say people shouldn’t be so anal about what happens to their precious assets. I say if you’ve put it out there on the net, it’s fair use in the context of a Doom mod. Sure a little credit goes a long way but Mark is not the Antichrist. Look at Doom like it’s music and there are genres of it, how is BD different than a rapper/hip hop artist using samples?
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GRUG
Doomer
30 year old boomer
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Post by GRUG on Dec 30, 2017 1:11:51 GMT -5
I don't really play Brutal Doom, but I do think Mark put a lot of time and effort into making it. I still strongly believe that the Brutal Doom series has kept the Doom modding community alive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 1:13:45 GMT -5
Maybe not keeping it alive for the old guard but definitely attracts newcomers like flies to shit.
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GRUG
Doomer
30 year old boomer
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Post by GRUG on Dec 30, 2017 1:19:54 GMT -5
It attracted a lot of new people to the community. Brutal Doom even influenced the developers when making Doom 2016. That's pretty significant in my opinion.
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Post by Doomguy 2000 on Dec 30, 2017 3:43:18 GMT -5
Some of the haters may have valid points, but in the comments section and what I have seen in recent history they just come off as jealous. You will have to read from the bottom up for some reason because I tried more replies when I found in the channel comments on his YouTube page. He's still right about this community as far as I'm concerned. The comments on the Moddb article further proves just that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 5:10:05 GMT -5
whatever man.
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Post by Doomguy 2000 on Dec 30, 2017 5:13:31 GMT -5
Coming from the same guy who compared myself to Mark. All you did was embarrass yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 5:14:42 GMT -5
I've dealt with people akin to mark and the like over the years. I really can't be bothered with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 5:17:51 GMT -5
It’s a game yo, wad authors are not here to be role models or your friend or even an acquaintance.
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Post by deathevokation on Dec 30, 2017 6:44:40 GMT -5
All you did was embarrass yourself. Coming from the guy who has an entry on the Doom Enclypedia Dramatica? haha. Using other people's work without permission is one thing, I follow you here, Glen... the community kept yelling at someone who was developing a popular sourceport (I can't remember which one) to open his code for the exact same reason and "for the betterment of the community" and the fact that he used Doom's source code as a base was also brought forward as an argument.. so no one has higher moral ground here if not for the fact that he didn't credit them... I don't know if he's changed and decided to credit, I hope so. Either way, the drama surrounding this is fact feels extremely exaggerated on the the people that are critical of Brutal Doom. Giving someone (who hasn't posted since a suicide post) advice on the easiest way to commit suicide is something I cannot ignore, though.. and it's my reason for not liking him, especially since 99% of suicide posts are screams for help. There's being asinine and then there's being evil. I get the "separate the art from the artist" thing, but I sell even amazing death metal albums when a singer kills someone in cold blood.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 7:19:25 GMT -5
especially since 99% of suicide posts are screams for help. citation needed.... How is this any different than any bullshit that’s spoken by wankers online? Pop quiz, what was the name of the user that Mark gave the su-advice to? Did anyone really care about that dude or the fact that dickhead Mark was talking bullshit again. On the Internet how can you really take anyone’s word seriously at face value? Are all you cunts who talk about impse and the like really into bestiality?
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Glenzinho's Chicabro
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Post by TOS on Dec 30, 2017 7:47:16 GMT -5
His "suicide post" has nothing to do with the content of his mods. Attack the person, but calling his mod shit because you're mad at him is stupid.
I'm not even the biggest Brutal Doom fan...but to deny the man his due credit for the work he's put into his mod because you don't like some words he said is misdirection of your disapproval.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 7:55:31 GMT -5
I don’t even want to give the cunt that much credit, he’s a hip hop musician after all, you know, a copy and paster. It’s time for people to get off his dick, that’s all. Brutal Doom exists, it’s popularity dwarfs other community creations and the sky is blue. Hopefully one day one or two of these new Doomers who come to us by way of BD will be popping out good Doom style maps for us to enjoy in the future.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Glenzinho's Chicabro
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Post by TOS on Dec 30, 2017 8:01:53 GMT -5
^Well, Brutal Doom is what got me back into Doom. I hadn't played good old Doom since like 1997. Then I saw a video for Brutal Doom on youtube when I was like twenty three, and that got me interested. Then I got bored of Brutal Doom, but still wanted to keep playing and mapping for plain old Doom...so, it is definitely a good catalyst.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Dec 30, 2017 10:43:03 GMT -5
I'm not really sure what to say about Brutal Doom winning the award. If the award is measured in how much work, dedication, and community involvement the creator has, he 100% deserves it.
In regards to the haters, and I'm one of them, I think I can untangle what people are saying. Theres an air about how our world's leaders have to use their fame for good instead of evil. If people know who you are, you better do the work you need to do to be liked, because it's going to piss everyone else off who is nice all the time. Unfortunately, they're dealing with someone who is putting in the time and the work to promote their Doom mod and getting attention for a reason that is completely detached from most people's inhibitions of wanting to be liked, and most people can't wrap their head around that, which is where the frustration and need to vent sets in.
When people transcend from a nobody to somebody, their personality doesn't magically change. It can, if they surround themselves with the right people, but Sgt Mark IV did something that magically turned a lot of eyes towards him. So if any forum nobody from here who has never released a single thing says to someone that they should kill themself, people won't remember for a second. Sgt Mark IV, as a Doom entrepreneur had to keep the spotlight on himself in order to keep Brutal Doom interesting and relevant. Plenty other people make good wads, but they don't do what they need to do promote it often and always to keep reminding people about it. Sgt Mark IV does, and this rubs people the wrong way because they don't like to see people paying any mind to someone they dislike.
Getting attention has a lot of parallels with making money. Most people seem to want to believe that if you're a good person and you have the right attitude and you do the right kind of work that helps the world, the money will come. And this is the mindset of most people who don't have money. If you really want the money, you can get out of your own way, bypass your moral righteousness and do something predatory that feels wrong but inherently works to get you the money you want, which you can then use the money to help the world and feel like a good person later. You can get attention for all the wrong reasons too, and people don't like to see that attention used irresponsibly. And that's that. If Sgt Mark IV has some sort of weird epiphany that he needs to use his attention to better his image, that would be great for everyone. But he's past that. For now, the attention is solely to promote his Doom mod.
If people have any arguments other than not liking him as a person, this is what they don't want to say out loud. They dont want people to play more Doom. Why? Because Brutal Doom is not Doom. People who like Doom and people who like Brutal Doom don't seem to like Doom for the same reasons. They don't want to be in the same rooms together when there are conversations about Doom. Brutal Doom people don't like to play Doom without the mod, and Doom people don't like to play Doom with Brutal Doom. Trace is a rare case of someone playing Doom again with Brutal Doom, and then decide to water it down with regular Doom. So Brutal Doom has facilitated a merging of two separate demographics of people that have bad chemistry with each other. For that reason, getting more people into Doom with Brutal Doom is not a good thing.
It's not nice to say that we're really not as welcoming as we claim to be, but we're really not.
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dn
Body Count: 02
the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Dec 30, 2017 11:10:14 GMT -5
I must have missed the memo where the doom community was 'welcoming'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 11:18:31 GMT -5
Interestingly, Brutal Doom doesn't seem to cause much drama in the Russian community. Maybe because we only have one main forum, Brutal Doom fans and classic Doom fans just have to learn to get along. I am able to talk with members who play nothing but BD in a totally civilized manner, and I think we accept our differences.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Glenzinho's Chicabro
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Post by TOS on Dec 30, 2017 11:57:44 GMT -5
Interestingly, Brutal Doom doesn't seem to cause much drama in the Russian community. Maybe because we only have one main forum, Brutal Doom fans and classic Doom fans just have to learn to get along. I am able to talk with members who play nothing but BD in a totally civilized manner, and I think we accept our differences. I really don't understand the bitterness between the two groups...I think we should focus on more pressing matters involving doom... like the fuckers who use brightmaps instead of sbrightmaps. FUCK THEM!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 13:48:04 GMT -5
My biggest gripe is how BD is the thing that hogs the spotlight and gets a billion "journalist" articles. Like, who the fuck is he paying and who is he bedding? Why does his get so much attention versus others? I know DRLA certainly deserves it a lot more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 14:41:44 GMT -5
My biggest gripe is how BD is the thing that hogs the spotlight and gets a billion "journalist" articles. Like, who the fuck is he paying and who is he bedding? Why does his get so much attention versus others? A middle class guy from South America who's spent years and years working on a completely free mod has spent big money paying off game journalists and fans alike to push his mod while suppressing other mods. Seems legit.
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Post by Doomguy 2000 on Dec 30, 2017 14:58:52 GMT -5
Coming from the guy who has an entry on the Doom Enclypedia Dramatica? haha. You mean the poorly written section about me that isn't even accurate? My biggest gripe is how BD is the thing that hogs the spotlight and gets a billion "journalist" articles. Like, who the fuck is he paying and who is he bedding? Why does his get so much attention versus others? I know DRLA certainly deserves it a lot more. I was going to reply but, @vordakk has already beaten me to it. Still what makes DRLA more deserving of popularity when it can't match the popularity of Brutal Doom? Plus you have no citations to your claims of the guy paying and bedding anybody for attention.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 15:25:44 GMT -5
B-but sarge lifts for real irl so he's better than all of us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 16:09:50 GMT -5
Ha look at all this Brutal Doom salt [starts arguing about Brutal Doom]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 17:04:17 GMT -5
I was going to reply but, @vordakk has already beaten me to it. Still what makes DRLA more deserving of popularity when it can't match the popularity of Brutal Doom? Plus you have no citations to your claims of the guy paying and bedding anybody for attention. DRLA deserves it more due to being a complete overhaul of the game and how it plays, and not in a gaudy, annoying manner of bloat and features for the sake of bloat and features, DRLA, unlike BD, has reason to add it's features and considers them deeply before implementation. It contains a wider bestiary and armory. The pace is slightly slower, but makes sense when you think of it; as there are some safe places in some maps that one can stop for a breather and collect health/ammo or seek secrets. The fact it's also a randomizer gives one more incentive for replay value. You also need to take into account all your weapons and what would be best where. It's a logical extension to DOOM unlike Brutal Doom, which is just "LOOK AT MY GAUDY EFFECTS GUYS BLOODY SCREEN SO REAL!" It adds a significant layer of strategy to the game; and a lot of the new additions are really surprisingly excellent additions to the Bestiary. The Hungry? Hellstorm Elemental? Mechstrocity? Absolute nightmares. Those enemies function -far differently- from the rest; meaning you more or less have to play Doom for the first time and learn everything all over again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 18:52:49 GMT -5
The bottom line is that Brutal Doom is popular. It was the most popular mod of the year on moddb. It was the most popular mod amongst other mods that have nothing to do with Doom. The stuff us “regular” Doomers like is old hat, we are relics. The people have spoken. However moddb have something called the editors choice for 2017, so let’s welcome and celebrate two other award winning mods from the Doom community: Haven’t got around to this one yet but it’s on the list and looks fab. Congratulations to our very own founding father Kontra, well deserved bloke.
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