Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 14:06:08 GMT -5
Don't play games with me you communist bastard.
jk lol
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Post by ketmar on Jul 7, 2022 14:08:08 GMT -5
Don't play games with me you communist bastard. i don't like multiplayer anyway. ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 14:24:49 GMT -5
Now I’m wondering how hard it would be to make it work in K8Vavoom. It has decorate support right? So maybe just a bit of juggling around or slight modification / removals of unsupported parts?
Or am I doing that wishful thinking again?
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Post by ketmar on Jul 7, 2022 14:31:35 GMT -5
it is using `MaxHealth` actor that is absent in k8vavoom (ok, it was absent, i just added it). it is also has the wrong actor declaration order: while ZDoom allows to inherit the actor that will be declared later in the code, k8vavoom doesn't allow that. it's also using `A_BetaSkullAttack()` action that k8vavoom doesn't have, and some decorate properties (like `INVENTORY.RESTRICTABSOLUTELY`) k8vavoom doesn't support (but it's not fatal, k8vavoom will simply ignore them). it seems that the only thing that need to be fixed to make it run is the actor declaration order.
p.s.: yay! two threads derailed! my Schwartz is growing!
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Jul 7, 2022 14:37:22 GMT -5
@contracommando
You can't get good information about anything anymore because many people (ourselves included) are just like thriller2910. We like to research things independently, hear things secondhand, have no way of knowing if we are receiving a biased perspective, and then report it to others like it's a fact. Nobody knows your lived experience better than yourself. thriller2910 heard there were racist crackpots here, and if you've ever dealt with a racist crackpot before, they're not really good at giving you an objective truth about the world, so he's not going to turn to the people of this forum to tell our story like it actually is. He found people who define their anti-racism by hating us and trusted their judgment.
It happens both ways. I will fight with people on this forum over and over about racism and trans/homophobia, disabilities, and other social issues, and they will resist it by citing corporate owned/sponsored news media that have a money-incentivized interest to break up civil rights movements.
About DBP48, Doom fans have been playing Doom for a long time and they like Doom to be a particular way. I don't think any amount of promotion, marketing, public relations will convince them that they were wrong about DBP48 and it actually is really cool and what DBP fans have wanted all along. They've been looking at Doomer Boards Projects through the lense of making Doom feel like Doom. People played it and formed their opinions about it. It's their prerogative to do that.
There are a lot of aspects to DBP48 that you consider to be features, that many people consider setbacks.
It utilizes GZDoom features? Cool!
For other people, that tells them this is the first out of 47 other DBPs that they can't play on their preferred non-zdoom-based source port.
New weapons and monsters and factions? Cool!
For other people, this means they will have to learn these weapons and factions to be able to play this competently. They also won't be able to pair it with gameplay mods without glitches and errors like they could with other DBPs. Many people have built a reputation on being good at Doom, and this maybe the first DBP that makes them feel like a total noob.
New maps! Cool!
People like new maps, but these maps were designed for resources heavily gameplay focused and didn't offer anything motivating or inspiring for the environment that the mappers would be creating. Aliens was on a spaceship, Predator was in a jungle, Jason Voorhees was in Camp Crystal Lake, and Steven Seagal is in... i don't know, New york I think? And hellspawn from hell? I don't think any of the mappers (or myself) could possibly fathom a plot device OR a location that would naturally bring all of these characters from their independent franchises into one place. That's an extremely tall order to leave on mappers to figure out and work together collaboratively on. They needed a lot more direction than that to make something compelling for players. There's no logical reason why any mapper's map would connect to the next one. It also was worrying for level designers that the resources were in active development while people were supposed to be making maps for it, so they were never sure if the resources were stable or going to be completely changed, possibly rendering their maps gameplay design obsolete.
No one has really practiced designing a good Doom map around independent factions, or how to use your new weapons and powerups in a way that feels fun to the player. And playtesters wouldn't know how to give the mappers good advice on it because they aren't familiar with this new stuff either. No one really knew how to be useful for a project like this because the project's design didn't adhere to anyone's strengths.
Believe me, I think you have good ideas and a lot of special skills that most people don't have. But in the future we will have to figure out a way that it can be channeled into our combined team effort. You went a little too rogue with the way this project should be done, and I think it just left the mappers alienated and the players confused.
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Post by ketmar on Jul 7, 2022 14:43:36 GMT -5
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Post by deathevokation on Jul 7, 2022 15:48:07 GMT -5
DBP#48 was a masterpiece even if just because of the drama surrounding it. The mod itself is a bonus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 21:42:37 GMT -5
As a joke I nominated DBP48 as worst mod of the year. Really as a ploy to advertise on DW since it is verboten to talk about the mod in a dedicated thread. But it was removed because you can't nominate your own mod.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 21:57:03 GMT -5
@contracommando You can't get good information about anything anymore because many people (ourselves included) are just like thriller2910. We like to research things independently, hear things secondhand, have no way of knowing if we are receiving a biased perspective, and then report it to others like it's a fact. Nobody knows your lived experience better than yourself. thriller2910 heard there were racist crackpots here, and if you've ever dealt with a racist crackpot before, they're not really good at giving you an objective truth about the world, so he's not going to turn to the people of this forum to tell our story like it actually is. He found people who define their anti-racism by hating us and trusted their judgment. It happens both ways. I will fight with people on this forum over and over about racism and trans/homophobia, disabilities, and other social issues, and they will resist it by citing corporate owned/sponsored news media that have a money-incentivized interest to break up civil rights movements. About DBP48, Doom fans have been playing Doom for a long time and they like Doom to be a particular way. I don't think any amount of promotion, marketing, public relations will convince them that they were wrong about DBP48 and it actually is really cool and what DBP fans have wanted all along. They've been looking at Doomer Boards Projects through the lense of making Doom feel like Doom. People played it and formed their opinions about it. It's their prerogative to do that. There are a lot of aspects to DBP48 that you consider to be features, that many people consider setbacks. It utilizes GZDoom features? Cool! For other people, that tells them this is the first out of 47 other DBPs that they can't play on their preferred non-zdoom-based source port. New weapons and monsters and factions? Cool! For other people, this means they will have to learn these weapons and factions to be able to play this competently. They also won't be able to pair it with gameplay mods without glitches and errors like they could with other DBPs. Many people have built a reputation on being good at Doom, and this maybe the first DBP that makes them feel like a total noob. New maps! Cool! People like new maps, but these maps were designed for resources heavily gameplay focused and didn't offer anything motivating or inspiring for the environment that the mappers would be creating. Aliens was on a spaceship, Predator was in a jungle, Jason Voorhees was in Camp Crystal Lake, and Steven Seagal is in... i don't know, New york I think? And hellspawn from hell? I don't think any of the mappers (or myself) could possibly fathom a plot device OR a location that would naturally bring all of these characters from their independent franchises into one place. That's an extremely tall order to leave on mappers to figure out and work together collaboratively on. They needed a lot more direction than that to make something compelling for players. There's no logical reason why any mapper's map would connect to the next one. It also was worrying for level designers that the resources were in active development while people were supposed to be making maps for it, so they were never sure if the resources were stable or going to be completely changed, possibly rendering their maps gameplay design obsolete. No one has really practiced designing a good Doom map around independent factions, or how to use your new weapons and powerups in a way that feels fun to the player. And playtesters wouldn't know how to give the mappers good advice on it because they aren't familiar with this new stuff either. No one really knew how to be useful for a project like this because the project's design didn't adhere to anyone's strengths. Believe me, I think you have good ideas and a lot of special skills that most people don't have. But in the future we will have to figure out a way that it can be channeled into our combined team effort. You went a little too rogue with the way this project should be done, and I think it just left the mappers alienated and the players confused. That's a fair assessment I think. That being said, I think this will at least be the most infamous DBP, the most avant-garde DBP. I have zero regrets for the way everything went down. However it could have gone a little smoother had I defined a theme for the environment. However, being the most different and being the worst are two different things. Different yes, fun absolutely. Maybe this is the mod this community needs to reach more players and not be stagnated by a niche. I hope we do get the worst caco award. So one day 5, 10, or 15 years from now. Someone will pick it up, removed from these traditional norms, and play the game for what it is, and give it a fair shake, and think to themselves, "I don't see why this is so bad".
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Post by dangerousdaviebowie on Jul 7, 2022 22:05:49 GMT -5
Legit I don't fucking see any signs of evil nazi racist fascism from this site at all. I just dont understand how the term facist just sprung up. But its reddit, a literal echo chamber where you can get shit canned by mods for slightly disagreeing with them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 22:12:09 GMT -5
Legit I don't fucking see any signs of evil nazi racist fascism from this site at all. I just dont understand how the term facist just sprung up. But its reddit, a literal echo chamber where you can get shit canned by mods for slightly disagreeing with them. there's a few dipshit losers who are allowed to post here that imo fall within that purview but its not the majority
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 22:15:47 GMT -5
I think the "treated badly" part mentioned in the OP is so emo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2022 22:43:54 GMT -5
@contracommando You can't get good information about anything anymore because many people (ourselves included) are just like thriller2910. We like to research things independently, hear things secondhand, have no way of knowing if we are receiving a biased perspective, and then report it to others like it's a fact. Nobody knows your lived experience better than yourself. thriller2910 heard there were racist crackpots here, and if you've ever dealt with a racist crackpot before, they're not really good at giving you an objective truth about the world, so he's not going to turn to the people of this forum to tell our story like it actually is. He found people who define their anti-racism by hating us and trusted their judgment. It happens both ways. I will fight with people on this forum over and over about racism and trans/homophobia, disabilities, and other social issues, and they will resist it by citing corporate owned/sponsored news media that have a money-incentivized interest to break up civil rights movements. About DBP48, Doom fans have been playing Doom for a long time and they like Doom to be a particular way. I don't think any amount of promotion, marketing, public relations will convince them that they were wrong about DBP48 and it actually is really cool and what DBP fans have wanted all along. They've been looking at Doomer Boards Projects through the lense of making Doom feel like Doom. People played it and formed their opinions about it. It's their prerogative to do that. There are a lot of aspects to DBP48 that you consider to be features, that many people consider setbacks. It utilizes GZDoom features? Cool! For other people, that tells them this is the first out of 47 other DBPs that they can't play on their preferred non-zdoom-based source port. New weapons and monsters and factions? Cool! For other people, this means they will have to learn these weapons and factions to be able to play this competently. They also won't be able to pair it with gameplay mods without glitches and errors like they could with other DBPs. Many people have built a reputation on being good at Doom, and this maybe the first DBP that makes them feel like a total noob. New maps! Cool! People like new maps, but these maps were designed for resources heavily gameplay focused and didn't offer anything motivating or inspiring for the environment that the mappers would be creating. Aliens was on a spaceship, Predator was in a jungle, Jason Voorhees was in Camp Crystal Lake, and Steven Seagal is in... i don't know, New york I think? And hellspawn from hell? I don't think any of the mappers (or myself) could possibly fathom a plot device OR a location that would naturally bring all of these characters from their independent franchises into one place. That's an extremely tall order to leave on mappers to figure out and work together collaboratively on. They needed a lot more direction than that to make something compelling for players. There's no logical reason why any mapper's map would connect to the next one. It also was worrying for level designers that the resources were in active development while people were supposed to be making maps for it, so they were never sure if the resources were stable or going to be completely changed, possibly rendering their maps gameplay design obsolete. No one has really practiced designing a good Doom map around independent factions, or how to use your new weapons and powerups in a way that feels fun to the player. And playtesters wouldn't know how to give the mappers good advice on it because they aren't familiar with this new stuff either. No one really knew how to be useful for a project like this because the project's design didn't adhere to anyone's strengths. Believe me, I think you have good ideas and a lot of special skills that most people don't have. But in the future we will have to figure out a way that it can be channeled into our combined team effort. You went a little too rogue with the way this project should be done, and I think it just left the mappers alienated and the players confused. I think the reason why some people have this idea of DBs is probably because we haven't been able to write our own history. Are there any members here that are on Doomwiki? Doomer.Boards.net should have it's own Wiki entry for the website itself. So far, I only see DBPs has one.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Jul 8, 2022 11:17:49 GMT -5
If you wanna know if a restaurant is good or not do you call them and ask them if they make good food, or do you read the reviews?
It doesnt make us less fascist if we put out propaganda that tells people we dont define ourselves under fascist principles. It just makes us look deceptive to those that already think we are.
Its a lot of wasted effort to be fixated on image. There are people that are registered here who are vocal and loud about how they dont give a shit about how the things they say hurt and displace others. Were just gonna lie about how these people dont represent the forum?
Why do they represent the forum any less than people who are caring and respectful to other people?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 11:35:42 GMT -5
Because like most things, it isn’t the quiet majority but the noisy minority that manages to grab the attention.
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Post by ketmar on Jul 8, 2022 16:30:36 GMT -5
(looking at the whole situation with the mild interest. but kiwi farms still a cesspool, right?)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 17:26:11 GMT -5
kiwifarms is a place for losers. Actual honest-to-god losers who have absolutely nothing going for them in their lives except making fun of other people on the computer. That's what they wake up and get out of bed for. How pathetic.
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Post by ketmar on Jul 8, 2022 17:32:39 GMT -5
now go and read the starting post. it's quite fun. btw, i have an account there. quite old one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 17:52:42 GMT -5
To add onto all of this, I think a really good compromise would be to do all the custom monsters/weapons as a separate MBF21 DEHACKED patch. MBF21 offers a ton of flexibility and we'd still have great compatibility across many of the popular source ports. We wouldn't be able to run in Crispy Doom or a few others but I think it'd be a much better solution than GZDoom-only in terms of compatibility. Another benefit of doing it this way is that, now that it's a separate patch, it can be loaded with any other DBP, and suddenly that DBP becomes a AvPvTvJvHvS DBP! It'd be like how you can put Sonic 3 into Sonic & Knuckles and now it's Sonic 3 & Knuckles. You could do this with any other wad too, of course. Valiant: AvPvTvJvHvS Edition! As for different factions, I think it might be best if this inter-factional behavior leaned more into designed setpieces rather than something that's hard-defined and enforced by completely random spawns. A lot of video game design is about selling the illusion of a particular behavior, so some well-designed encounters where two groups of enemies are encouraged to face off against each other would work much better than having the monsters just end up fighting each other one-on-one. Everyone who's familiar with Halo fondly remembers the moment in the second game where the Elites and Brutes start fighting each other. Careful map design could have many different encounters just like this. I do also think that the lack of a cohesive map theme is another issue. I think the best solution would be to just do an seedy urban theme along the lines of Duke 3D. All of the elements that are present wouldn't seem particularly out of place in a modern city setting, particularly if the plot is that all of these factions are closing in on humanity.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
R.I.P. Aaron Bushnell and over 30,000 genocided Gazans.
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Post by Gokuma on Jul 8, 2022 22:25:49 GMT -5
Woah I just found a video of that redditer complaining about some campaign ad on the tube. It's so embarrassing I can only watch it for so many seconds. Here's a better video anyway. So has anyone tried simply running DBP48 and another DBP at the same time to play whichever DBP with the mod?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 5:02:36 GMT -5
>reddit my brother in Jesus h. Christ, have you really sperged out on negative IQ redditard take? oh boy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 14:37:43 GMT -5
Sorry I liked that Reddit post that almost no one saw a few weeks ago, Kontra. I didn't think you'd get all weird and start PMing me on Doomworld about it. I really think you should just accept the fact that some people don't like the wad without turning into a creepy stalker over it and manufacturing an argument where there doesn't need to be one. I didn't even make a single post on Doomworld or elsewhere criticizing the project, so give it a rest. Alright, that's all, seeya.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 14:48:03 GMT -5
No, not on Reddit, I meant the DW thread. I don't go on reddit other than that thread I made about that post on DBs. The thread was deleted on DW. Okay bro, you are so cool, calm down, I'm not a weirdo. I'm just letting you know that I thought that it was a piece of shit thing to do, given the fact that I was always cool to you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 14:53:06 GMT -5
A piece of shit thing to do is what you did, trying to start an argument in a PM over fucking nothing. I didn't like the wad and I thought the way you reacted to your critics was embarrassing, you shit the bed in a really public way. It's not like I was rallying against you, I didn't say shit about it.
I remembered liking that Reddit post because I thought it was kinda stupid even though I also partially agreed with it. I don't even know what DW post you're referring to but it really doesn't matter anyway. I'm allowed to not like a project, you don't need to be a weirdo about it. I'm not "cool" for pointing out that your reaction was extremely over the top and embarrassing when you come bitching at me about liking some post.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 14:58:43 GMT -5
There's no fucking argument, it is a statement. I think your actions suck, because here back when DBs was taboo, you were pissy about being mistreated on DW, we were accommodating to you. Now that you are a SUPER MODERATOR you need to keep up appearances by bashing on my project via upvoting negative comments. That's a fact Doomkid.
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