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Post by optimus on Jan 7, 2022 14:47:21 GMT -5
Confusing again. 267/267 enemies, then one imp remaining. Killing it still yields 267/267 100%
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xeepeep
Banned
Forever
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Post by xeepeep on Jan 7, 2022 18:01:28 GMT -5
He was resurrected I imagine
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,072
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Post by joe-ilya on Jan 7, 2022 19:18:50 GMT -5
GZDoom makes various fixes to many classic mapsets such as Memento Mori II, Master Levels, Requiem and the IWADs, etc .
For this map GZDoom made that imp not count towards the kill count because it triggers something important.
Another example of GZDoom fixing maps is the secret in Doom II MAP15 that can't be tagged, GZDoom fixes it, and many other untaggable secrets in classic maps.
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Post by optimus on Jan 7, 2022 21:15:03 GMT -5
GZDoom makes various fixes to many classic mapsets such as Memento Mori II, Master Levels, Requiem and the IWADs, etc . For this map GZDoom made that imp not count towards the kill count because it triggers something important. Another example of GZDoom fixing maps is the secret in Doom II MAP15 that can't be tagged, GZDoom fixes it, and many other untaggable secrets in classic maps. Oh? I kinda noticed before GZDoom fixing things in original Doom, but going so far to even fix individuals WADs? What would the imp trigger? Usually it's Mancubi and Arachnotrons in MAP07. |
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,072
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Post by joe-ilya on Jan 8, 2022 0:13:58 GMT -5
Any monster can activate walkover lift triggers and open doors that use action 1.
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Post by optimus on Jan 8, 2022 11:51:50 GMT -5
Any monster can activate walkover lift triggers and open doors that use action 1. Ah that makes sense now. I remember that was possible. So, that's how it's used. And GZDoom decided to alter the monster count. Lame!  p.s. I also was curious where they use that in the map, so I checked now. And I screamed! Oh boy, that's why there was an elevator that decided to lower whenever it wanted, but there was a button you can shoot there, another switch you press, but nothing made sense. That map was trolling. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 4:08:20 GMT -5
That's why I'm thankful faithful ports like Chocolate Doom exist, OCR-based bug fixing in game engine makes hard to relate to other players playing the same thing cause said acts alter playing experience. God bless the purism.
That being said, Gzdoom choice to signal finding the secret is actually a good one, makes it easier to detect when there are secrets that should have not been (as a result of sector splitting after it was specified by mapper, and mapper forgetting to get adjustments to sector specials), as well as know where the OCR-induced "must get all secrets" hunt can be finished. I wish it was part of original, so as to make the pro-purism argument simpler, but I guess devil wanted to make advanced ports have their pros.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 4:55:48 GMT -5
Vigilant, it's strange considering the fact you can't even know how many secrets there are. So the "secret revealed" notification is basically useless without the secret counter somewhere in hud or automap. In fact it's useless even with the counter lol. It's just for player's curiosity what area was considered a secret.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 5:40:01 GMT -5
Ah, actually it's useful with the secrets counter on. By the way, Heretic did replace secrets percentage with a secrets counter in tally screen, and Quake II also had a signal when finding a secret. The developers didn't consider it useless apparently. Also, all damaging pits in Heretic original three episodes are escapable IIRC (unlike Doom).
And it's not just player curiosity when you say, are playtesting a map for DBP, and it has multiple secret revealed sounds going off in one place, you know without looking at the editor the mapper fucked up this spot, and if playing back the demo in a port where "secret revealed" sound is present, it will also be evident to whoever plays it, so if player forgot to mention this bug, a demo viewer may discover it.
I personally consider visual signal a good addition to sector counter in automap, so that I know whether I hit the secret spot, or didn't. Sometimes you can grab things within the secret sector without tagging it, it is useful to know this fact without having to switch to automap. The missing sound would tell you something is wrong when you might have dropped your suspicion and have taken for granted "I'm getting this secret, no need to check". In fact, it was purposefully NOT added (removed from, as it used some stuff from Crispy codebase) CnDoom so that you don't have that security of knowing whether you tagged the secret while you are speedrunning. But it was or could be enabled during demo playback in CnDoom.
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joe-ilya
Hey, Ron! Can we say 'fuck' in the game?
a simple word, a simple turd
Posts: 3,072
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Post by joe-ilya on Jan 9, 2022 5:44:46 GMT -5
Vigilant, it's strange considering the fact you can't even know how many secrets there are. So the "secret revealed" notification is basically useless without the secret counter somewhere in hud or automap. In fact it's useless even with the counter lol. It's just for player's curiosity what area was considered secret. It's immensely useful for speedrunning. |
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