dmdr
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Post by dmdr on Apr 15, 2020 7:02:30 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 7:36:32 GMT -5
Kontra you're still accepting progressive premises (also 10 million is also totally impossible dude, at least read the TL;DR). It's actually important to (a) be accurate and (b) not to listen to people who are really obviously lying to you. Let me be clear, Even if it was 1,000,000 or, 100,000, or even just 1,000 the point I was making remains.
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
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Post by dmdr on Apr 15, 2020 7:45:57 GMT -5
yes I read that already, so I know you walked back what you originally said* after I posted all that. I'm also aware what your point was. HOWEVER you are undermining it yourself because your analogy is like 99% fictional (sort of like those goobs who think The Handmaid's Tale is going to come true cos Trump), and you're working from the premises of the people you're railing against. * When in fact he killed 13 million people in the process, and caused 20 million to lose their hands. 'in fact'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 7:49:48 GMT -5
Okay, I get what you're saying, and "in fact" was a terms of phrase faux pas on my part.
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
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Post by dmdr on Apr 16, 2020 8:26:24 GMT -5
Yeah I kinda buried my point under all that other stuff, mea culpa (but in my defense writing big long screeds like that are helpful for organising one's own thoughts... prolly should have put it in a spoiler to emphasise it was 'optional content' but too late now olololololo)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 15:37:36 GMT -5
Right now China is the number one enemy of the free world. Trump sure has problems but do you really think Bernie has the balls to stand up to them or even want to for that matter? He could have a heart attack any day! Imagine having your president die when there is a global pandemic going on. What you need right now is someone who will punish China by bringing back industry to the US, with Europe following suit. We might not have cheap stuff anymore but maybe you don't actually need that new flatscreen TV, maybe the one you have right now is good enough. They don't deserve to have all that power. The coronavirus situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Don't forget how they treat Uyghur muslims, Hong Kong and their extremely draconian surveillance techniques. There is no better time to move away from communism instead of closer to it than now.
If you're a Democrat you should be terribly pissed at them for not providing you with a better candidate or deliberately sabotaging the good ones like Tulsi Gabbard. The best they could do was two senile old fossils. Pathetic.
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dmdr
Doomer
is this how I add a title under my avatar?
Posts: 588
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Post by dmdr on Apr 16, 2020 18:24:09 GMT -5
Just to be pedantic, you shouldn't emphasise the Islamity of Uighurs when discussing their treatment at the hands of the Chinese -- China has a widespread Muslim group called the Hui that are oppressed in no meaningful way (and have, based on my limited reading, always been quite well integrated into Chinese society). The difference between them and the Uighurs is ethnic/racial -- the Hui are very similar to the Han, while the Uighurs have a great deal of Caucasian admixture. What's going on there is simple genetic warfare. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people#Geneticsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs#Genetics
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 19:03:13 GMT -5
"East Turkmenistan" is actually considered the most policed area of the world. The Chinese are committing genocide against them, essentially. I recall, reading something like 40% of their youth is incarcerated. Correct, they do have a lot of CHG, they're majority West Eurasian.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 2:34:49 GMT -5
My response to the last few textwalls in this thread:
Worker's rights and universal healthcare are good ideas and they have proven to be good ideas in numerous countries around the world. No amount of crazy babble you guys are engaging in changes that. I'm sorry but I go where the evidence points, and the evidence points towards getting raped in the ass by insurance companies for lackluster healthcare just because "da gooberment is scareeee" being fucking retarded. McCarthy fooled you fuckers good, he did.
Capitalism with worker's rights and tax funded healthcare is not Communism. It's capitalism with a government that actually fulfills some of the duty a government is supposed to fucking fulfill.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 7:24:22 GMT -5
McCarthy? My country actually went through communism and even now we are feeling the effects of it, so don't give me that bullshit. We have socialized healthcare here and it's fucking garbage. It's full of incompetent people who were hired based bribes, neoptism or party affiliation. There is NO such thing as free healthcare, if you want decent care you have to give doctors a bribe because they are underpaid and overworked because of the braindrain. China is the number 1 enemy of the world right now because of how they handled the virus. You think a weakling like Sanders has the balls to stand up to them or even want to? You think the people who he surrounds himself with would want to punish China? He could have a heart attack the next time he raises his voice. Trump sure has problems but he is the only one who is capable of punishing China by bringing back manufacturing to the US, with Europe following suit. It's not even just about revenge, but about sending a message to a dangerous enemy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 8:22:33 GMT -5
My country has socialized healthcare too, as well mandated decent minimum wages and worker's rights. You know, so the people breaking their backs to keep the wheels turning actually have something to show for their 40+ hours a week of hard work. And we're still capitalist as fuck. Sorry some "shithole countries" as your bud Trump would call them got it wrong, but there are a lot that got it right! What's funny is, those countries score better on the happiness index than America does. I would have to be a fucking braindead to move back to America at this point, because this small handful of things that have a socialized option (education and healthcare) make life better for the common citizen.
Getting fucked by insurance companies is not somehow "more free" either. That is just a flat-out load of baloney but I hear it from some of the Fox News talking heads. I don't know how anyone buys it.
Also who the fuck said anything about "free"? Taxpayer funded =/= free, anyone over 5 years old probably understands this, I don't see how it's relevant. The suggestion that the populous should have something to show for all the goddamn taxes they pay isn't as insane as you're making it out to be and, once again, numerous first world countries with socialized healthcare options prove this beyond any doubt. Okay, when that actually happens, that'll be swell. I won't hold my breath waiting for it.
Man, I always thought being an American meant you never blindly trusted authority and you always demanded more of your country and your fellow countrymen. This era of sucking off the rich and thanking them for throwing some scraps off the table to us has me sick to my goddamn stomach, to be frank about it. We're supposed to be NUMBER ONE, and not just in fucking incarceration rates and obesity rates! I mean the most educated country with the wealthiest population per capita, and the happiest. As it is now, we're not first rate or even second rate.. We're about 19th or 20th rate. And we're all supposed to love Our Dear Leaders for getting us "this far". I wanna spit just thinking about it.
This insinuation that I was super loyal to Bernie is absurd, by the way. It's more accurate to say he was the least scummy of a pool of fucking scumbags. Any rebel-blooded person shouldn't be lapping up the lies of the emperor. It's pathetic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 8:55:10 GMT -5
My country has socialized healthcare too, as well mandated decent minimum wages and worker's rights. You know, so the people breaking their backs to keep the wheels turning actually have something to show for their 40+ hours a week of hard work. And we're still capitalist as fuck. Sorry some "shithole countries" as your bud Trump would call them got it wrong, but there are a lot that got it right! What's funny is, those countries score better on the happiness index than America does. I would have to be a fucking braindead to move back to America at this point, because this small handful of things that have a socialized option (education and healthcare) make life better for the common citizen.
Getting fucked by insurance companies is not somehow "more free" either. That is just a flat-out load of baloney but I hear it from some of the Fox News talking heads. I don't know how anyone buys it.
Also who the fuck said anything about "free"? Taxpayer funded =/= free, anyone over 5 years old probably understands this, I don't see how it's relevant. The suggestion that the populous should have something to show for all the goddamn taxes they pay isn't as insane as you're making it out to be and, once again, numerous first world countries with socialized healthcare options prove this beyond any doubt. Okay, when that actually happens, that'll be swell. I won't hold my breath waiting for it.
Man, I always thought being an American meant you never blindly trusted authority and you always demanded more of your country and your fellow countrymen. This era of sucking off the rich and thanking them for throwing some scraps off the table to us has me sick to my goddamn stomach, to be frank about it. We're supposed to be NUMBER ONE, and not just in fucking incarceration rates and obesity rates! I mean the most educated country with the wealthiest population per capita, and the happiest. As it is now, we're not first rate or even second rate.. We're about 19th or 20th rate. And we're all supposed to love Our Dear Leaders for getting us "this far". I wanna spit just thinking about it.
This insinuation that I was super loyal to Bernie is absurd, by the way. It's more accurate to say he was the least scummy of a pool of fucking scumbags. Any rebel-blooded person shouldn't be lapping up the lies of the emperor. It's pathetic.
Never said he would do it, but out of all the candidates, he's the one who's most likely to punish China. He's a fatass who gorges on McDonalds every day so he might get a stroke like our buddy Kim but between Biden and Sanders, he's the one who's most likely to give China a wake-up call. I can tolerate his bizzarre (but still funny) statements as long as he punishes China which I hope he does after the pandemic is over. As for incarceration and obesity, don't blame that on the rich, that has to do with personal responsibility. I've read about the dietary habits of americans and my jaw drops everytime. Maybe don't eat all the shit. Maybe eat a fucking vegetable every now and then and by that I don't mean deep-fried potatoes with extra gravy. Maybe do some exercise. No one is forcing you to eat all that garbage. Buy stuff from farmers' markets. Most americans live in houses right? Why not have a vegetable garden and a few chickens? The leaders are not supposed to take you to prosperity, just make sure your rights are respected and that the government won't get in the way of your life so you can live as you see fit and spend your money however you like. I agree there should be some form of safety net but if an American is a degenerate fatass who has heart disease due to eating McDonalds every day and has had his brain destroyed by smoking weed then taxpayers owe him nothing. Good fucking riddance. Someone who eats healthy, doesn't smoke 3 packs a day, doesn't drink except occasionally deserves healthcare a lot more than the stereotypical americunt fatass. I don't want him to get taxpayer healthcare, I want him to get himself into shape or fucking die. The world has no obligation to sustain such degenerates.
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Apr 27, 2020 11:27:49 GMT -5
Guys, guys, the problem isnt communism OR capitalism. The problem is corruption. Both systems have good intentions and both systems are equally vulnerable to it.
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Justince
Doomer
Professional Face-Puncher
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Post by Justince on Apr 27, 2020 16:45:49 GMT -5
Anything that requires the skilled labor of another person isn't a human right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 4:02:11 GMT -5
Guys, guys, the problem isnt communism OR capitalism. The problem is corruption. Both systems have good intentions and both systems are equally vulnerable to it. Not true. Communism breeds corruption because of the lack of variety and often quality in products and services due to lack of competition. Even food that we regard as basic nowadays had to be bought from the black market. Bananas and oranges were expensive and often only available for Christmas. Want quality medical treatment? Be prepared to give a bribe. Want the new Iron Maiden album? Be prepared to pay the smuggler because that kind of music is counter-revolutionary. What communism does is actually highlight how much people want free market economics. Communism doesn't eliminate it, it merely drives it underground, which breeds corruption and the association with often unsavory people. In my country, communism had a nationalistic streak too when Ceausescu wanted to increase the birthrate by banning abortion and all kinds of contraception, which didn't eliminate it at all but drove it underground, where people who weren't even doctors often did the abortions. if you want to see how this was actually like, watch 4 Months 3 Weeks and 2 Days. It's about as bleak as it gets. So communism is inferior to capitalism because it stifles the free will and self-determination of the individual. And I don't buy Bernie's "kindly grandpa" schtick AT ALL. You really think he will say he is an outright communist in America? You just need to look at the kinds of people he surrounds himself with, that tells you everything you need to know. He's a goddamn pinko and you know it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 15:00:36 GMT -5
Guys, guys, the problem isnt communism OR capitalism. The problem is corruption. Both systems have good intentions and both systems are equally vulnerable to it. No, both systems are not equally vulnerable to it. Capitalism was made with human weaknesses and flaws in mind, and seeks to mitigate them. Communism literally ignores them, or in some cases even plays them up.
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dn
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the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Apr 29, 2020 15:51:41 GMT -5
you wot?
You are conflating democracy with capitalism. I assure you the two are very, very different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 18:00:29 GMT -5
To me at least, Capitalism motivates people to work hard, and motivates companies to compete to create a better product for a lower price. They win because they make more money and sell more, and we win because the end product is superior. In a true Capitalist society, the harder you work and the better/smarter/more talented you are, the more money you make, and thus you improve your life. In Communism, there is no incentive for anyone to bust their ass because wealth is "supposedly" distributed equally, so the lazy cocksucker next door has the same life and wealth as the dude who busts his ass 24/7. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, but it's probably fairly accurate.
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GRUG
Doomer
30 year old boomer
Posts: 700
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Post by GRUG on Apr 30, 2020 0:40:03 GMT -5
you wot? You are conflating democracy with capitalism. I assure you the two are very, very different. Democracy is a political system/method of governance. Capitalism is a economy system. Capitalism or socialism can be influences in democratic governance (fiscal policies is a prime example). On another note: Democracy is is nothing more than mob rule. It’s prone to corruption and failure. Even the ancient Greeks (who invented Democracy) tried to implement several democratic systems of governance and they failed miserably.
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dn
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the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Apr 30, 2020 10:31:56 GMT -5
To me at least, Capitalism motivates people to work hard, and motivates companies to compete to create a better product for a lower price. They win because they make more money and sell more, and we win because the end product is superior. In a true Capitalist society, the harder you work and the better/smarter/more talented you are, the more money you make, and thus you improve your life. In Communism, there is no incentive for anyone to bust their ass because wealth is "supposedly" distributed equally, so the lazy cocksucker next door has the same life and wealth as the dude who busts his ass 24/7. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, but it's probably fairly accurate. early stage capitalism, yes. But we haven't seen that since 1970. Late stage capitalism ends in monopolies, both political and financial. These can be either total or tacit, look at the American political system for an example: two parties, two sides of the same coin. Hell, it's become fucking impossible to separate the Political and Corporate in the UK / America because 9 times out of then they are embodied by the same fucking person. You want a meritocracy, but what you end up with are plutocracies and who-knows-who nepotism. The rich simply multiply their own wealth because they know that this shit simply cannot last. They are hording against the apocalypse and - when the apocalypse comes - will profiteer from war. Wanna know why I do so little manual labour? Because there is no incentive for me to burst my ass. Go look at the average house price, go look at the minimum wage, deduct the Boomer tax in pensions and rent, do the math and figure out that I *might* be able to afford a house three years before I am scheduled to leave this fecal plane. End result: an entire generation treated like fucking cash-cattle; a bunch of old hording fucks who - upon the eve of their retirement - are shoring up the fucking holes in the side of this fucked and sinking ship by jamming human bodies into the gaps. I want this system to fail. I'll fucking take the hammer to the foundations myself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 13:49:27 GMT -5
dn gets it. There's no point trying hard at a job - if you're born into being rich and successful, you'll have to really super-duper fuck up to lose it and if you're not, it'll take a herculean effort and similar deity-like luck to change that as well. Might as well get comfy and coast at your level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 15:30:51 GMT -5
To me at least, Capitalism motivates people to work hard, and motivates companies to compete to create a better product for a lower price. They win because they make more money and sell more, and we win because the end product is superior. In a true Capitalist society, the harder you work and the better/smarter/more talented you are, the more money you make, and thus you improve your life. In Communism, there is no incentive for anyone to bust their ass because wealth is "supposedly" distributed equally, so the lazy cocksucker next door has the same life and wealth as the dude who busts his ass 24/7. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, but it's probably fairly accurate. This is exactly why communism breeds corruption. You will need to bribe competent people if you want their services. In my country, most of the doctors who haven't left the country due to brain drain work for the government and are underpaid so you will most likely have to give a bribe to get adequate service. No joke. Corruption destroys a culture and a country just as it has mine. The Social Democrat party around here is 100% proof of that. Two years ago they tried to decriminalize "small" acts of corruption of under 10k euros! So if you embezzled under 10k euros you could not go to jail! That is just the tip of the iceberg. This cancerous mass of a "party" is the direct result of communist corruption that has been festering like a putrid carbuncle for decades. The reason I even care about US politics and who gets to be president of the USA is because when the US farts, it ripples across the whole world and I don't want some goddamn pinko lead the most powerful country in the world. We need someone who will punish China by bringing back manufacturing to the US and Europe and out of all these old geezers Trump is the only who who has the balls to do it. Let Trump say his funny and bizarre statements, I just don't care as long as he punishes China and continues to annoy the mainstream prostitute media.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 10:16:45 GMT -5
I forgot, if it was me that made this one.
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Post by DOEL on May 19, 2020 21:07:07 GMT -5
DoomKid, 40oz, and dn get it.
OK honest question, is there a viable alternative to democracy that isn't an arbitrary hierarchy?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 0:16:30 GMT -5
Anything that requires the skilled labor of another person isn't a human right. Something not being a human right does not bar it from being a good idea. Fixed potholes in the road aren't a human right either but we still use taxpayer money to keep to roads usable. It not only benefits the quality of life for the common person but allows the gears of capitalism to turn even more efficiently - which doesn't mean shit to me personally on a moral or philosophical level, but the point is it's a fucking obvious win-win. It's a practical solution to a problem that has the potential to fuck many people over unnecessarily.
The American populous on the whole associates doctors more with bankruptcy than saving lives. That is a blatant problem and you don't even have to acknowledge the numerous flaws of capitalism to see it.
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