agent6
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Post by agent6 on Jun 4, 2018 4:31:41 GMT -5
As about Suspended in Dusk, as I've already said, the few levels it features are beautiful, but the gameplay is mediocre. The fights feel very controlled and there's no real sense of danger to them. To add insult to the injury, some enemies are placed in very questionable places, such as the Cyberdemon in the final level, and the navigation is pretty bad too, it's way too easy to get lost in the levels and run in circles a few times until you eventually manage to find the path. The SSG also has painful firing sounds. It sounds like 2 pieces of metal hitting each other.
SiD it's a must see for its design, for me it's good for a first playthorugh when you don't notice so much the flaws of the gamepaly that is serviceable enough but it was lacking a step forward. That you get lost is good thing actually, more mappers should do that. No it's not a good thing to get lost, wtf? Getting lost is something to be avoided. That only means the layout is confusing which results in poor navigation, no one wants to get lost in a map because the author was too incompetent to design better, clearer routes. In some cases it could potentially be a good thing, so long it serves a purpose and makes some sense (maybe even rewards the player to some degree if some good exploration is somehow involved), but what's seen is SiD is just the result of poor design, which inevitably leads to mediocre gameplay, which was less than stellar to begin with. As about noticing the flaws, well actually I noticed all this in my first (and only) run, those are major problems that stand out and thus, are immediately noticed. |
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NuMetalManiak
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Post by NuMetalManiak on Jun 4, 2018 7:04:34 GMT -5
Valiant was fun for the first playthrough but I can't imagine to replay it, the various gimmicks and new stuff are nice the first time but then they sort of lose all the value. It starts with a good first episode and ends with a good episode, those are the only ones with good themes. The whole middle part is meh, 2-3 maps for those episodes would have been enough Unholy Realms is good up until MAP12, with the death exit combined with an annoying action start and a whole lot of things being out of reach. That MANCUBUS near the rocket launcher is the worst. Not to mention that later on, Snakes' mapping style pretty much shows a whole lot of sameness, that when a guest mapper shows himself (particularly skillsaw's MAP27 which is obviously the best map in the final half of the set) I feel a lot better. Also those crushers in MAP13 and MAP23 are impossible to truly avoid. For valk's Doom Core Trilogy, Reverie is my least favorite. What annoys me most is that I first found it via cacowards page, saying it's "back to the roots Memento Mori/Requiem style" but I found none of that when I played. Yes, it's a vanilla wad, but the concepts and things I found in it didn't really strike me at all as "back to the roots". Well, it is replayable at least, and has a decent soundtrack (same with UR), but Doom Core and Eternally Yours were much more fun on the whole. Thankfully, none of the maps in the trilogy strike me out so hard that I have to mention them like I do specific other maps. While I wouldn't consider Mano Laikas to be that popular, it's a megawad of entirely the same thing. Weird layouts, hard-to-get secrets, low monster count, but the monsters tend to be big ones and it's not uncommon to find a cyberdemon or arch-vile in places. Unfortunately it's one where you see this aspect once, you'll see it again for the rest of the set. Only real unique map is MAP07 and that's because of its layout (also Smashing Pumpkins midi :3) Hey Shadowman. I really liked Khorus, but I had to turn the music off because it's fucking grating. My opinion of course. Speaking of Shadowman, one thing I hated about the Cheogsh series were those railgun octobrain things. Just play Cheogsh 2/Realm of Cheogsh and you will figure out why (no wind up time for attack again and perfect accuracy). Also Cheogsh 1 (which didn't have those enemies) had one part that stumped me when I actually had to shoot the switch across the pentagram, took me forever to figure that out. What's up with MAP06 of Hellcore 2.0? Can you even call this a map? The last few maps are also quite a grindfest.
I didn't finish UR, I recall that I liked the first episode but then I lost interest for the wad, which happens rarely to me I usually finish everything.
Actually I still have to finish Doom Core, I'm at MAP17. I think that Reverie offers the best stuff of the trilogy, and it isn't its fault if the cacowards advised it as something that it isn't for you.
I wouldn't consider Mano Laikas popular at all, there's a niche of people who really liked it but that's it. Like I said in my newstuff review it does the same things through all the wad, you either like it or not, I think that Nicolas Monti played with some different ideas which are repeated many times (verticality and flatness, layout composition, themes...). To me it's the best wad of 2016.
Those aren't the problems for Shadowman maps, try to play on UV pistol starts and see how much he's stingy with the ammo 
I would argue that Hellcore is somehow experimental with its gameplay, you start in atmospheric empty places that later gets filled with monsters that it become ridiculous. MAP06 is one of the strangest things ever done in Doom.
As about Suspended in Dusk, as I've already said, the few levels it features are beautiful, but the gameplay is mediocre. The fights feel very controlled and there's no real sense of danger to them. To add insult to the injury, some enemies are placed in very questionable places, such as the Cyberdemon in the final level, and the navigation is pretty bad too, it's way too easy to get lost in the levels and run in circles a few times until you eventually manage to find the path. The SSG also has painful firing sounds. It sounds like 2 pieces of metal hitting each other.
SiD it's a must see for its design, for me it's good for a first playthorugh when you don't notice so much the flaws of the gamepaly that is serviceable enough but it was lacking a step forward. That you get lost is good thing actually, more mappers should do that.
Actually Ancient Aliens isn't all that bad despite the mancubus usage AND the arch-vile usage.
The monster usage isn't really a problem but how it handles traps, ambushes, crappy gameplay gimmicks. I barely finished the first episode. I really think that it's popular only because it has some pretty colors and ayy lmao memes.
And to add a new wad to the list: Whispers of Satan. I dropped it at MAP16 or 17. It looked nice and Kristian Aro's map were good actually, but the rest was filled with copy-paste, symmetry and the gameplay is very boring and it feels "mechanical".
Would it be awkward for me to say that I had to god-mode the rest of UR and STILL found it to be frustrating? I'm aware of pistol starting Shadowman maps, but I'm also more aware of music choices, arch-vile usage, and 64-wide maze corridors moreso. Then again, I'm being a bit more conservative with his maps than usual anyways. SID may be good for layout and design, but those really can be seen as bad things too. I too think it sucks to get lost in a map, especially if you speedrun or do what I do and find the best possible route in each possible case I can find. Most of skillsaw's more famous maps are gimmicks it seems. I just found Ancient Aliens' gimmicks much more comfortable than Valiant's. Though it might be because I was also expecting that kind of gameplay after already being familiarized with the unfairness Valiant offered. Whispers of Satan is one of my all time favorites. I love the symmetry and how it's a recurring theme for the entire wad. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 5:11:35 GMT -5
There's getting lost and getting lost. Not every player has the same navigation skills but it's indeed a good sign when mappers venture in that territory and it shows that they are willing to follow more unconventional ideas and they want to build something more interesting, granted that (like many other things) they should make it with some cognition at least. I think that you are lucky because arguably most of the mappers operate with rather strict rules about how layout, flow and that stuff should be.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 7, 2018 7:16:54 GMT -5
^ I agree, there's a pretty significant difference between not being able to find that one key you need for the door, and not knowing whether there is any key at all.
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agent6
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Post by agent6 on Jun 7, 2018 8:18:05 GMT -5
^ I agree, there's a pretty significant difference between not being able to find that one key you need for the door, and not knowing whether there is any key at all. Still, both are terrible options, one worse than the other. |
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 7, 2018 8:38:47 GMT -5
Hellfire 2 got a lot of positive reviews but I can't, for the life of me, enjoy this at all. It's soooooo skimpy on ammo and health items, and the new dehacked enemies suck. I couldn't push myself to make it past MAP02. Sorry shadowman, the levels look great but this is unplayable garbage.
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joe-ilya
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 7, 2018 10:36:36 GMT -5
I really like Going Down, but I feel like it lacks variety in gameplay, it does have rising difficulty throughout, but the gameplay is always defined by close encounters and tight areas with little moving room just so detailing the map will be easier.
I feel like Going Down could be perfect if its theme wasn't around one thin building, but more about simply digging deeper into hell after passing a few city maps.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 8, 2018 8:58:38 GMT -5
Did anybody like Eternal Doom IV?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 8:59:37 GMT -5
Like
Not really, I think I’m still playing it in another dimension somewhere. That shit is long yo. I can’t even really remember much from it to be honest, just Espi’s Map 27 which was stunning at the time I played it but also very bad ammo starvery. I can remember getting to a point where I had to cheat, which I detest, to give myself ammo so I could finish it. Even then I could see that the ammo available in the rest of the map would never do. Navigation was not a strong point, in the whole wad really.
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Aisleen
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Post by Aisleen on Jun 8, 2018 9:29:03 GMT -5
EDIV is a wonder to look at, but everything else felt out of focus sometimes. I never got why there are a mixed bag of custom monsters, as they didn't really enhanced the experience. MAP27 is still something to stare in awe, but i get motion sickness way too much from it  The only real disappointment for me about EDIV was the absence of Paul Schmitz and Sverre Kvernmo. They were some of the true wizards of the original Eternal Doom (wouldn't mind seeing something more like these wads). |
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joe-ilya
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 8, 2018 10:04:57 GMT -5
I didn't even know Eternal Doom had a sequel, but if it's as bad as Icarus' sequel, I swear to god, I'll lose faith in TeamTNT.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 8, 2018 10:23:52 GMT -5
I didn't even know Eternal Doom had a sequel, but if it's as bad as Icarus' sequel, I swear to god, I'll lose faith in TeamTNT. Expect to be disappointed. I remember it being very confusing and non-doomlike. |
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Aisleen
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Post by Aisleen on Jun 8, 2018 10:25:08 GMT -5
I didn't even know Eternal Doom had a sequel, but if it's as bad as Icarus' sequel, I swear to god, I'll lose faith in TeamTNT. They aren't even alive anymore |
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NuMetalManiak
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Post by NuMetalManiak on Jun 8, 2018 11:42:59 GMT -5
The hub in ED4 is decent, Couleur's maps not so much because they are exceptionally larger than all the maps in the hub combined and often when you go around in the map a random monster spawns somewhere and it is a pain in the ass to 100% his maps (also one monster is apparently permanently dormant or some shit and I can't kill him). Espi's map is only average at the very best, but it beats the rest of the maps in all honestly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 17:04:09 GMT -5
Oh EDIV, overall I like it but not without some criticism about it. Firts, the hub: it has many places that are interesting visually (if fact the whole wad is plenty of cool visuals) but it's the part that suffers the most of emptyness. Hub systems can be cool, and from what I recall there are places in some maps that are accessible only by going through other maps and there's actually a nice sense that the maps are locations actually connected. I guess that the repopulation system was inspired by Hexen to obviate the problem of have lots of empty backtracking, problem is that the map at the start have a very low density of monsters and the ACS just spanws some random monsters here and there that cause only some little nuisances. It was very underwhelming in my replay. Espi's map: sure it looks good, especially the vista of the land below that you have from the towers is stunning. It does a good portrait of a very realistic castle. I have to say that the texturing wasn't really convincing to me, the new textures are cool yes but the map is very long and the whole castle features only the same grey, which detract a bit from the overall impression that it makes. It shows that it's unfinished, there are some locked parts that were supposed to be accessible in the next level but they generate some confusion.This is the map in the wad that have the best use of the ZDoom features. Last Chris Couleur maps: those are best levels of the wad in fact, the ACS respawning is still annoying but I argue that his maps look even better compared to Espi's map. The gameplay is a bit more substantial (for Eternal Doom standards) and these levels offer a closer experience to the original EDIII. It's quite a shame that Couleur is an underrated mapper, he has a very cool and unique style. Remember that this is actually a demo, some things to a certain extent could have been better in a proper release, which we will never see it...
The only real disappointment for me about EDIV was the absence of Paul Schmitz and Sverre Kvernmo. They were some of the true wizards of the original Eternal Doom
Fun fact: all the mappers that made ED were doomed to not make something else that was notable. Sverre seems to be the only exception, to a lesser extent there's Jim Flynn and Bob Evans. Couleur worked only on stuff related to ED.
Anyway, this is a thread about popular wads, I thought you were supposed to say stuff like "Actually Schyte 2..." and "BTSX sucks", EDIV is more niche than EDIII which is a niche wad itself.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jun 8, 2018 17:24:00 GMT -5
I remember Eternal Doom IV was pretty well received when it was released. I don't recall hearing anything negative about it, but I remember only playing it for a half hour before I got sick of it. There's this weird disconnect when it comes to Doom wad releases (and I guess this exists in other mediums too) where people seem to be overtly receptive to what I can only describe as "the idea" of something, versus the actual thing. When it comes to actually sitting down and playing the mapset it just blows. I don't know what it is. I don't know if you can call it "hype" but there are certain things that people only see and without actually playing it, they just feel the necessity of saying "THATS WHAT I WANT"
Brutal Doom Updates
Maps with new palletes
Maps with a different colored liquid
Maps with original custom textures
Maps with thousands of monsters
TC's with new sprite-based graphics
All of these seem to be really popular things but often when I play these things I really have trouble believing that there are people who really do think this is the height of anyone's Dooming experience.
Does that make any sense?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 17:34:32 GMT -5
EDIV is more niche than EDIII which is a niche wad itself. No. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 17:41:49 GMT -5
40oz Yeah that makes a bit of sense. It's almost as if people don't actually like Doom and want it to be something else entirely. That last sentence is a bit silly though as the new colours and palettes and textures and things like these that are around these days are pretty fucken gorgeous. In the end though it always comes back to the gameplay. Your map can be ugly, beautiful, or just plain but if it plays like shit who gives a fuck? Also custom monsters suck in almost every case. A big part of Doom's appeal for me is the monsters. The guns too. If people are gonna do that shit it seems to work better when you're just adding a few new monsters/weapons that mix well with the original Doom ones. Are you complaining about the Mayhem projects 40oz?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 17:44:14 GMT -5
EDIV is more niche than EDIII which is a niche wad itself. No. Vordakk speaks truth yo. Even though I wasn't around myself then, I'm pretty sure that only people who came to Doom circa 2010+ would think EDIV is niche. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 19:43:04 GMT -5
I was 18 in November of 1997 when Eternal Doom III was released, and I can tell you everybody was playing that wad back then. We had all played the initial release back in 1996 and were waiting breathlessly for them to complete EDIII, which they did in '97. The level of quality in those maps, especially for back then, coupled with new textures and a completely new original soundtrack, made Eternal Doom III into essentially a whole new IWAD-quality experience that you could get for free.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 8:11:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the "historical" insight. I don't think that at least from the past years is still as popular as it was back then, it's still regarded as a classic and there will be always people who will really appreciate ED since it's a great wad. EDIII stood the test of time better than EDIV imo.
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NuMetalManiak
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Post by NuMetalManiak on Jun 9, 2018 8:52:51 GMT -5
40oz Yeah that makes a bit of sense. It's almost as if people don't actually like Doom and want it to be something else entirely. That last sentence is a bit silly though as the new colours and palettes and textures and things like these that are around these days are pretty fucken gorgeous. In the end though it always comes back to the gameplay. Your map can be ugly, beautiful, or just plain but if it plays like shit who gives a fuck? Also custom monsters suck in almost every case. A big part of Doom's appeal for me is the monsters. The guns too. If people are gonna do that shit it seems to work better when you're just adding a few new monsters/weapons that mix well with the original Doom ones. Are you complaining about the Mayhem projects 40oz? Which is why Ancient Aliens is better than Valiant. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 15:54:54 GMT -5
Valiant was one of the exceptional cases I was referring to. Ancient Aliens’ gameplay compared to Valiant is like comparing Linkin Park to real music.
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agent6
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Post by agent6 on Jun 10, 2018 1:54:16 GMT -5
AA > Valiant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 2:16:36 GMT -5
Have you actually been to Alcoholics Anonymous? In no way is that better than Valiant |
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