SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
The code isn't free if one can't close it
Posts: 1,046
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Post by SilverMiner on Jun 12, 2022 9:46:08 GMT -5
Crossposting from DW here (original text by Shiba)Greetings! The creation of the Innocent crew, Memento Mori 1 and 2 was a success among the Doom community. Its level design and focus on cooperative play (not to mention the soundtrack) are still sources of inspiration to modern mappers. We as well, have been enjoying them a lot, so we began making a sequel, Memento Mori 3.
If you enjoy Doom as much as we do, and would want to create something new and exciting for it, join the cause! Use BOOM format when creating maps. The main Resource pack is on discord, so click the link below if you wanna join. Beginners are accepted but don't make low effort maps. The map list is in a google spreadsheet, it'll be updated with each new contributor. Specific map regulations will be discussed in an MM3 discord server.(Including MIDI lists and such). Also please let us know what map slot(s) you're interested in. Maplist: MMM-MMM-MMM-MMMDiscord server: discord.gg/v8sxrXGjrE
Deadline is 2 months after the last member joins.
Best regards,
The Sadistic Semenary team
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Post by deathevokation on Jun 12, 2022 13:01:10 GMT -5
Does this have anything to do with the original Memento Mori?
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
The code isn't free if one can't close it
Posts: 1,046
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Post by SilverMiner on Jun 17, 2022 10:49:20 GMT -5
Does this have anything to do with the original Memento Mori? It's our (the team's) interpretation of the style Memento Moris 1,2 had |
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Post by redneckerz on Jun 17, 2022 13:33:09 GMT -5
Does this have anything to do with the original Memento Mori? It's our (the team's) interpretation of the style Memento Moris 1,2 had But does it need to have the same name as such? It will come across as if you were the official successors to it.
Alas, atleast those less in the know would.
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SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
The code isn't free if one can't close it
Posts: 1,046
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Post by SilverMiner on Jun 17, 2022 16:36:50 GMT -5
But does it need to have the same name as such? It will come across as if you were the official successors to it.
Alas, atleast those less in the know would.
Here you go, there're Plutonia 2 and TNT 2. Unofficial successors. Some may not like them, but most people think they are quite good. For example, have you seen anywhere in Plutonia 2, say, Dario Casali involved? No. Is the wad considered ok by the most? Yes. Simple logical reasoning, unless of course I missed something, leads me to the conclusion that making unofficial sequels is acceptable.
They can, but why can't we?
Ah, I get it, it's a survival bias. Those who are satisfied with everything will not ask such questions. You could be just part of those people who don't like it, and that's okay. I'm sure there will be more of those who'll like it. Of course, it's gonna take a lot to live up to players' expectations
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 16:59:05 GMT -5
Many people don't approve of sequels made by teams who had nothing to do with the originals; it's kind of viewed as riding the coattails of someone else's work instead of trying to make a name of your own. They see it as "infringement" rather than "tribute". Sometimes the sequels aren't really "justified" - case in point, Plutonia 2 - which doesn't hold a candle to the original. Other times, it's the other way around - like how TNT2 absolutely destroys the original TNT in both style and gameplay. I don't really get why anyone would make such a great megawad as TNT2 and by name associate it with the crapfest that is the original though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:18:09 GMT -5
I think making unofficial sequels to classic WADs is fine if they're sufficiently old enough. It's one thing to make a sequel to Plutonia, but it'd be another to make an unofficial sequel to something like BTSX or Eviternity. My suggestion is, if you're looking to dodge the name, to maybe not name it directly Memento Mori, but give it a name evocative of it. Consider the Latin phrase " Ubi sunt," a shorthand for a Latin phrase meaning "Where are those who were before us?" Like the Latin phrase "Memento Mori" (meaning "remember that you will die"), "Ubi sunt" is evocative of the transience of human life. However, unlike "Memento Mori," it also makes us think of the people before us; in this context, it can refer to the pioneering mappers who created the Memento Mori mods, at the beginning of Doom's modding community. You could perhaps call it "Ubi Sunt: Memento Mori Community Project" or "Ubi Sunt: MMCP" for short. |
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 17, 2022 17:37:47 GMT -5
Memento Mori : The Next Generation
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:42:19 GMT -5
...case in point, Plutonia 2 - which doesn't hold a candle to the original... Is this really a widely accepted opinion? I personally thought that Plutonia 2 was amazing, and apparently so did other people, as it won a 2009 Cacoward. There are some incredible maps in that wad, especially some of Gusta's and Thomas Van Der Velden's work. I'm curious why you think that it didn't hold a candle to the original. |
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Post by lunchlunch on Jun 17, 2022 18:21:54 GMT -5
*kicks Hell Revealed III under the rug*
I am outraged
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40oz
diRTbAg
Posts: 5,537
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Post by 40oz on Jun 17, 2022 19:05:04 GMT -5
I think its cool and I'm happy to see you working on something like this. The people complaining wouldn't help you make it, wouldnt play it, and wouldnt have anything supportive to say even if you had given the project a different name, and still wouldn't even if you decided to change the name.
I know you love memento mori and if it fuels your imagination enough to make spiritual successor then fucken go for it!
I think the original creators of Memento Mori would be honored to see that people still love and pay homage to what they created so long ago. Dont listen to people who have no stake in it when they tell you what you can and can't do.
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Post by JadingTsunami on Jun 17, 2022 19:47:29 GMT -5
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 17, 2022 20:36:09 GMT -5
Silverminer titled this thread Memento Mori 3 as bait.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 2:38:30 GMT -5
It's our (the team's) interpretation of the style Memento Moris 1,2 had But does it need to have the same name as such? It will come across as if you were the official successors to it.
Alas, atleast those less in the know would.
Plutonia 2 and TNT2 called, they laughed at you for straight up hours. Seriuosly, who gives a shit about names if the project succeeds in its goals, ie to b as close to the source as possible while being fun and stuff? Only whiners and soyjacks. |
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shibainumaster
Doomer
Kombucha Mushroom person (sits around all day)
Posts: 420
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Post by shibainumaster on Jun 19, 2022 0:04:42 GMT -5
Hey,the person who started the project here.We discussed the name change with the team and decided to put our foot down,the project is now officially "Memento Mori 3".Dunno why did we worry about the controversy before.
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Post by joe-ilya on Jun 19, 2022 6:06:58 GMT -5
the project is now officially "Memento Mori 3".Dunno why did we worry about the controversy before. Everyone knows why you worried about the controversy, it's because it's on frigging Doomworld!  |
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Post by redneckerz on Jun 19, 2022 6:26:58 GMT -5
But does it need to have the same name as such? It will come across as if you were the official successors to it.
Alas, atleast those less in the know would.
Plutonia 2 and TNT2 called, they laughed at you for straight up hours. Seriuosly, who gives a shit about names if the project succeeds in its goals, ie to b as close to the source as possible while being fun and stuff? Only whiners and soyjacks. As good as those are, they are less recognizable than their predecessors.
Either way, i personally have no qualms with it: I was just saying that to the casual player, it may look like it is an successor because they are more likely to have played TNT or Plutonia (or the original Memento Mori). |
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[WH]-Wilou84
I'm too young to die
The perpetuous dreamer
Posts: 7
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Post by [WH]-Wilou84 on Jun 19, 2022 6:41:40 GMT -5
Seriuosly, who gives a shit about names if the project succeeds in its goals, ie to b as close to the source as possible while being fun and stuff? Only whiners and soyjacks. The first screenshot posted in this topic doesn't scream "Memento Mori", like, at all. You see, Doom fans and purists do care about this sort of thing. I was writing this on Doomworld but the topic got locked before I could post, so here I am. As a long-time fan of classic wads, I appreciate that a new mapping team would pick up after old legends and adopt their legacy in some way. I really do. But using the name "Memento Mori 3" is bold. You should do it only if you intend to stay faithful to the formula, and this is not what is being done here. For starters, Memento Mori and its sequel were made for vanilla Doom, and here you're going for Boom compatibility and a high level of detail, as demonstrated by the screenie. A "Memento Mori 3" could only work as a tribute to the style of the mid-90's, not something with CC4 textures and a modern flair. True, Memento Mori is known for its emphasis on Co-op gameplay, but it's not the only thing that defines the wad. For instance, maps in Memento Mori keep the detailing level to a minimum which allows for many dynamic changes to the map structure (walls being opened or lowered, stair builders everywhere, floors being lowered or raised etc.). I mean no disrespect to you, shibainumaster, but you should make a name for yourself first instead of leeching fame from these legendary wads. A proper, successful "Memento Mori 3" is too much for you to handle. It's basically DBP41 / Hell Revealed III all over again, except that in the case of HRIII, the project leader was experienced. I've played DBP41 and it is a solid episode, clearly, but aside from 40oz's map, it has nothing to do with Hell Revealed. It cannot seriously claim to be a sequel worthy of the name. Two of the maps even had Plutonia-styled teleporters at the start and the end and would belong to a modern reinterpretation of Plutonia rather than HR... |
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
Posts: 2,297 
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Jun 19, 2022 7:19:59 GMT -5
I propose an alternative name.
"The Quest for the Metal Rod Stuck in Xeep-Eep's Urethra After a Quite Fulfilling, but Ultimately Very Concerning Sounding Session"
Sounds pretty catchy to me.
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shibainumaster
Doomer
Kombucha Mushroom person (sits around all day)
Posts: 420
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Post by shibainumaster on Jun 19, 2022 7:28:09 GMT -5
Seriuosly, who gives a shit about names if the project succeeds in its goals, ie to b as close to the source as possible while being fun and stuff? Only whiners and soyjacks. The first screenshot posted in this topic doesn't scream "Memento Mori", like, at all. You see, Doom fans and purists do care about this sort of thing. I was writing this on Doomworld but the topic got locked before I could post, so here I am. As a long-time fan of classic wads, I appreciate that a new mapping team would pick up after old legends and adopt their legacy in some way. I really do. But using the name "Memento Mori 3" is bold. You should do it only if you intend to stay faithful to the formula, and this is not what is being done here. For starters, Memento Mori and its sequel were made for vanilla Doom, and here you're going for Boom compatibility and a high level of detail, as demonstrated by the screenie. A "Memento Mori 3" could only work as a tribute to the style of the mid-90's, not something with CC4 textures and a modern flair. True, Memento Mori is known for its emphasis on Co-op gameplay, but it's not the only thing that defines the wad. For instance, maps in Memento Mori keep the detailing level to a minimum which allows for many dynamic changes to the map structure (walls being opened or lowered, stair builders everywhere, floors being lowered or raised etc.). I mean no disrespect to you, shibainumaster, but you should make a name for yourself first instead of leeching fame from these legendary wads. A proper, successful "Memento Mori 3" is too much for you to handle. It's basically DBP41 / Hell Revealed III all over again, except that in the case of HRIII, the project leader was experienced. I've played DBP41 and it is a solid episode, clearly, but aside from 40oz's map, it has nothing to do with Hell Revealed. It cannot seriously claim to be a sequel worthy of the name. Two of the maps even had Plutonia-styled teleporters at the start and the end and would belong to a modern reinterpretation of Plutonia rather than HR... These points are actually resonable.Yes,the WAD is not vanilla,but my idea was to make the WAD more modern,because MM2 for example,used more high-brow tricks than MM1. My level of experience is to be questioned(with leading CP's specifically) but it seemed like such an easy WAD to make a follow up for,MM2 and MM1 had no realtion except for Graphics and athours in my eyes. Thank you for experssing this in a polite way,but i don't know if i must drop the project,people joined and started working already(the map screenshot from the post is from MAP04 for example) It seems like i done fucked up y making a hot-headed decision too quickly. |
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Post by redneckerz on Jun 19, 2022 8:09:08 GMT -5
The first screenshot posted in this topic doesn't scream "Memento Mori", like, at all. You see, Doom fans and purists do care about this sort of thing. I was writing this on Doomworld but the topic got locked before I could post, so here I am. As a long-time fan of classic wads, I appreciate that a new mapping team would pick up after old legends and adopt their legacy in some way. I really do. But using the name "Memento Mori 3" is bold. You should do it only if you intend to stay faithful to the formula, and this is not what is being done here. For starters, Memento Mori and its sequel were made for vanilla Doom, and here you're going for Boom compatibility and a high level of detail, as demonstrated by the screenie. A "Memento Mori 3" could only work as a tribute to the style of the mid-90's, not something with CC4 textures and a modern flair. True, Memento Mori is known for its emphasis on Co-op gameplay, but it's not the only thing that defines the wad. For instance, maps in Memento Mori keep the detailing level to a minimum which allows for many dynamic changes to the map structure (walls being opened or lowered, stair builders everywhere, floors being lowered or raised etc.). I mean no disrespect to you, shibainumaster, but you should make a name for yourself first instead of leeching fame from these legendary wads. A proper, successful "Memento Mori 3" is too much for you to handle. It's basically DBP41 / Hell Revealed III all over again, except that in the case of HRIII, the project leader was experienced. I've played DBP41 and it is a solid episode, clearly, but aside from 40oz's map, it has nothing to do with Hell Revealed. It cannot seriously claim to be a sequel worthy of the name. Two of the maps even had Plutonia-styled teleporters at the start and the end and would belong to a modern reinterpretation of Plutonia rather than HR... These points are actually resonable.Yes,the WAD is not vanilla,but my idea was to make the WAD more modern,because MM2 for example,used more high-brow tricks than MM1. My level of experience is to be questioned(with leading CP's specifically) but it seemed like such an easy WAD to make a follow up for,MM2 and MM1 had no realtion except for Graphics and athours in my eyes. Thank you for experssing this in a polite way,but i don't know if i must drop the project,people joined and started working already(the map screenshot from the post is from MAP04 for example) It seems like i done fucked up y making a hot-headed decision too quickly. Obviously you shouldn't drop this. MM The Way DBP Did could work, haha.
Making a sequel to a classic sets expectations regardless if the original authors are present or not.
Mori's Memento, how about that? Its stil derivative but recognizable.
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shibainumaster
Doomer
Kombucha Mushroom person (sits around all day)
Posts: 420
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Post by shibainumaster on Jun 19, 2022 8:19:58 GMT -5
These points are actually resonable.Yes,the WAD is not vanilla,but my idea was to make the WAD more modern,because MM2 for example,used more high-brow tricks than MM1. My level of experience is to be questioned(with leading CP's specifically) but it seemed like such an easy WAD to make a follow up for,MM2 and MM1 had no realtion except for Graphics and athours in my eyes. Thank you for experssing this in a polite way,but i don't know if i must drop the project,people joined and started working already(the map screenshot from the post is from MAP04 for example) It seems like i done fucked up y making a hot-headed decision too quickly. Obviously you shouldn't drop this. MM The Way DBP Did could work, haha.
Making a sequel to a classic sets expectations regardless if the original authors are present or not.
Mori's Memento, how about that? Its stil derivative but recognizable.
Hmmmm,not a bad idea. I thought of just developing the project away from DW for now,post it when it's done on ModDB,here,Doom Universe,etc."MM The Way DBP Did" Also that can be a sub-tile,lol. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 8:21:34 GMT -5
(...)but i don't know if i must drop the project,people joined and started working already(the map screenshot from the post is from MAP04 for example) It seems like i done fucked up y making a hot-headed decision too quickly. I agree that there's absolutely no reason to drop it, but maybe go for a clear-cut tribute instead. Wouldn't be more satisfying if your project became unofficially known as MM3 by it's own merits instead of claiming that name from the get-go? I find the suggestion below more than soothing to the mind. Perhaps, consider it. For any colour you end up choosing: Godspeed! You could perhaps call it "Ubi Sunt: Memento Mori Community Project" or "Ubi Sunt: MMCP" for short. |
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skyr
Doomer
Still looking for the missing chromosomes
Posts: 245
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Post by skyr on Jun 19, 2022 9:55:03 GMT -5
So the release is already cursed by first naming it MM3 and then saying you would change it and then a month later saying you won't change it.
So fuck it, just double on the controversy, doomworld is most likely locking the next thread about this release anyways, so why not?
Here are some great names if you wanna double down on it:
Sunlust 2: Valiant, But Better.
Sunder: Maps 21-30
Elementalism Phase 2: The Return of Appa
Mordeth 2: If mordeth is being lazy, we will finish it for him.
Scythe 3: The Return of Erik Alm (without Erik Alm)
Memento Mori: The Third Reich, by the SS (seriously, your team is called the SS team? A bit on the nose don't you think?)
DBP #37: Auger Zenith 2
DBP #48: Ruin Station
20x20: Kicking Under The Rug
Memento Mori: An Ode to Eric Harris
Memento Mori: "Why the fuck would anyone play this wad? Memento Mori is the most boring wad ever, holy fuck it's one of the shittiest things in media history, you need to be braindead to like this" The Game.
Mucus Flow 2: Please Dean of Doom, give us an A+
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shibainumaster
Doomer
Kombucha Mushroom person (sits around all day)
Posts: 420
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Post by shibainumaster on Jun 19, 2022 10:06:20 GMT -5
Eh,i'll ponder on that.Gotta ask people int he project about what do they think.
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