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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 7:47:33 GMT -5
My viewpoint: people who use 'fascism' to describe the inhuman actions of Australian, Canadian and etc. governments in relation to pandemic actually understand history better than others who find it offensive to holocaust survivors to compare modern time human rights violations to Hitler's regime. Specifically, the first ones understand that totalitarian regime trampling human rights may emerge from any ideology, not just the ideology conventionally described as far-right or racist. They also remember well that not fighting or otherwise resisting the evil as it emerges (even if it is not targeting you yet) contributes to its victory. They also remember well that sooner or later they may be the next ones to be targeted.
And the warning sings are any actions by the government that trample human rights, are extreme (radical), prejudiced against a category of people, no matter what idealistic view these measures are backed by.
People use word "fascism" because they were taught to recognise those signs, the inhumanity behind actions, as "fascism" and they actually learned very well. The word may not be well-chosen since it has nothing to with historical definition of "fascism", as the ideology can be far left rather than far right (for example, communism as in China or Soviet's style). However, just like in the signature of our French-speaking trolly dude, "if we do not learn from our past, we are destined to repeat it.", and for this purpose, until a better world is found, the actions must be called out and resisted by any means, lest a new inhumane regime emerge.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 20, 2022 9:15:53 GMT -5
My viewpoint: people who use 'fascism' to describe the inhuman actions of Australian, Canadian and etc. governments in relation to pandemic actually understand history better than others who find it offensive to holocaust survivors to compare modern time human rights violations to Hitler's regime. Is it important that one topic is fascism and the other is not? They can both be rooted in a path towards fascism. Pitting antifascists against other antifascists keeps resistance fractured so the fascist regime can triumph.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 9:40:27 GMT -5
Antifascists aren't related to this topic in any way. "Antifa" movement was hijacked by leftist extremists long time ago. The current actions of Canada and Australia governments (possibly elsewhere too) require resistance from all sides of political spectrum, and non-political people as well.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 20, 2022 16:33:49 GMT -5
fascism and antifascism are diametrically opposed.
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dn
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the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Feb 20, 2022 17:06:14 GMT -5
fascism and antifascism are diametrically opposed. If a "fascist" said he likes cabbage, then antifa's automatic and sole reaction would be to burn down all the cabbage farms. That doesn't make them antifascist, it just means anarchists have a mentally retarded child's view of economics, politics, identity, language & ideology.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 20, 2022 19:50:14 GMT -5
im not continuing the conversation if it needs to bypass that fascism and antifascism are in direct opposition of each other. Im aware of the media buzzword "antifa" that creates the image in your head of young scrawny whiny sophomore children with piercings, acne, and colored hair.
Corporate media is owned by a small few massive corporations and it is in their interest to operate unnopposed. If I have to pretend this buzzword is representative of the comprised opposition to fascism for us to talk about real life stuff then I'm out. Thats your fantasy and you can crumble in your little ball of anxiety without me.
Talk to me when you want to know real answers.
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dn
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the motherfucking darknation
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Post by dn on Feb 20, 2022 21:13:58 GMT -5
Antifascism is in direct opposition to what an individual antifascist's definition of fascism is. An entire political movement being defined as an antonym is not conductive to civilized debate or any sort of meaningful academic scrutiny, and I'm convinced that's by design. Arguing with antifascists in good faith is like attempting to solve an equation when the algebra are randomizing their values depending on what day of the fucking week it is, how the algebra feels this morning, and dividing the sum by the square root of Hitler.
And *even* if something resembling a consensus is reached, don't get comfy, because that shit is all about to change again tomorrow.
In short, antifascism is not a political movement: it's an ideology with no possible application in real world politics other than destabilization and anarchy. It has *no* future goal other than an ill-defined utopia, and it has *no* actual plan, roadmap nor policy in order to actually get there. In all aspects it has more in common with religion than common sense. And, as I've stated over and over and over again, this fucking gyre of tantruming illogical psuedo-political retardation has created more fucking fascists than it has gotten rid of.
That's my definition.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 5:58:21 GMT -5
im not continuing the conversation if it needs to bypass that fascism and antifascism are in direct opposition of each other. You are welcome to withdraw from this topic. The reason is: 1. The argument you make about antifascism is derailing the thread. This thread is about recognising all human-rights totalitarian regimes, regardless of what ideology underpins them. For this purpose, far left ideology is an evil that is equal to far right, and the proof of that is what is going on in Canada and Australia as we speak. 2. You imply that participating in "antifascist" movement is a sufficient and the only way to combat fascism. Your implication is incorrect both ways. dn already addressed the issue with what "antifascism" is vs what it professes to be, saving me the trouble of explaining it myself. Thus I'm going to focus on those two issues above. 1. Re: far left and far right resulting in totalitarian state is an idea that I first heard at politology courses in university. Whereas the conventional left-right wing view represents left wing as "strong individual rights" and right wing as "strong state", and there is a line going from left-to-right, there is alternate view that instead draws the political wing as an U-shaped curve. Where both ends of U are far(radical) left and right respectively, and both are totalitarian. This theory (U-shaped view) seems to reflect reality better. 2. Re: how to avoid fascism, and indeed any kind of totalitarian state. As per lessons from history (the Nazi Germany), the following was crucial to Hitler's success: 2.1. Policies gradually introduced outlawing various categories of people, with people of one category not bothering to stand up for people of another, because they were opposed or otherwise irrelevant to each other. When one category was targeted, the others didn't speak up in its defense, enabling Nazis to rid them one by one. 2.2. Policies didn't start with killing entire groups of people, but rather imposing limitations on them (what public facilities they can visit, etc.), or imprisonment. 2.3. Those working for the state didn't oppose orders violating the laws that were in effect that time. Thus the priority way to block Nazis, or indeed any political power commiting crimes against humanity, would be: - Refusal by state actors to obey all unlawful orders, and importantly all orders violating human rights. - Criminal trial for those who issue and those who agree to execute those unlawful orders. There also needs to be investigation in all kind of "emergency act" invokations with the possibility of prosecuting a person who invoked this act. Actually, per Canadian emergency act law, if I got it correctly, it is to be invoked to protect citizens against external threats, not to designate own citizens to be state's (or public's) enemy. One group already filed a lawsuit against emergency act, but it would have been better if state itself did realize the necessity to and opened an investigation into whether Trudeau had the rights to invoke it. - Solidarity among people of all political dispositions (including having no political bias at all) in defending human rights even of those people whose political views are opposite of yours/undesirable. An individual having far right views is not a license for state to kill or maim him. Criminals have human rights too. - Civil disobedience towards any state decrees that violate constitution / human rights.
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Gokuma
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
R.I.P. Aaron Bushnell and over 35,000 genocided Gazans.
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Post by Gokuma on Feb 22, 2022 17:08:37 GMT -5
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