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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 11, 2020 17:11:24 GMT -5
This is just something I want to post to cheer myself, and maybe others, as I'm too depressed to sleep at the moment, because I started working at a factory.
Keep on doing your hobbies and start new hobbies when you get home. I make Doom maps and play guitar, but I'd also like to start writing my own songs, and making animations.
Keep on studying for my unfinished school exams, so that I don't get stuck at this job.
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Lobo
Doomer
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Post by Lobo on Oct 12, 2020 1:16:56 GMT -5
Sometimes I look back and remember the days when I used to work in a warehouse/logistics company. At the time I was like "I need to get out of here!".
Fast-forward many years: Now I'd be down for some of that monotonous work these days because the last few jobs have been too stressful and brain-fried problem solving.
Moral of the story is: the grass is always greener on the other side!
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 12, 2020 11:32:50 GMT -5
I used to be in school though, and looking back, I can see how I much prefer to use my brain than to use my body. I can see how I or anybody else would prefer to physically work after a long time of brain work, it's good to have an option to switch between those kinds of jobs, you can try that.
I quit the factory job by the way, it was too much.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 12, 2020 12:52:14 GMT -5
That sounds rough. I have a friend who worked in an assembly line at a factory and he says it's brutal. You can never perform well enough to impress management. You're just a machine thats expected to produce results all day every day. You deserve better, my dude.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 15:50:44 GMT -5
If you have any free time and can set aside two hours a day I suggest you pick up a new skill that you would enjoy and would be lucrative. You can make a good living with 3D modeling and coding for example. You could also be a freelancer if you are very disciplined. Speaking from experience, no matter what you do and how enjoyable it is, if it becomes a job it will slowly erode you. I think this is why many game developers make worse games over time. You just gotta learn to deal with it.
The modern world offers many opportunities and you are no longer forced to remain a peasant like in the past. It would be a shame not to take advantage of this. I don't know where you are from but if a guy from Eastern Europe can set himself straight then so can you. You can learn a new skill, make money and take pride in your craft. It will probably take at least two years of smart, consistent practice but if you just grind away at it, like in World of Warcraft you can probably do it. Imagine that you are an adventurer in a dungeon.
If you are interested in learning 3D for example, send a PM. I would be willing to offer help and constructive criticism but remember, it will take at least two years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 16:43:26 GMT -5
if a guy from Eastern Europe can set himself straight then so can you Isn't this like survival bias or whatever it's called? Can we really be sure that if it worked out for you it will work for everyone else? Maybe if the circumstances were slightly different you'd still be out of work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 17:05:02 GMT -5
Isn't this like survival bias or whatever it's called? Can we really be sure that if it worked out for you it will work for everyone else? Maybe if the circumstances were slightly different you'd still be out of work. If you read the rest of his post, he's trying to offer help and be positive.
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 13, 2020 19:01:04 GMT -5
Thank you for the offer @doomro , but I've never touched 3D modeling, and am much more interested in 2D animation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 23:25:07 GMT -5
Thank you for the offer @doomro , but I've never touched 3D modeling, and am much more interested in 2D animation. I started from scratch, knowing nothing about art. I don't know how to make characters but I can make guns, cars, military equipment, environmental stuff. Good luck with 2D then. Just hammer at it until you can land a few projects. It's probably best if you don't stretch yourself thin. Even in 3D you need to choose your specialization.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 14, 2020 8:29:10 GMT -5
If you read the rest of his post, he's trying to offer help and be positive. If you read joe-ilya's post, it's the opposite of what he probably needs. It's capitalist indoctrination that you need to be productive in order to be happy. It's not necessarily wrong -- It's very good to have a purpose. I get a lot of joy from creating Doom maps for people to play even though I get no money in return. Factories are built for high speed production efficiency, and it grinds the life out of people much sooner than it makes anyone proud of their efficiency. Its the necessity of having an income that forces me and people like me to do the kind of work that hurts their soul.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 11:16:39 GMT -5
40oz, I don't think offering an opportunity to get a really cool skill that might later result in getting a good job automatically qualifies to encouraging one to be productive or shaming for refusal to do so. Especially given that joe-ilya had no troubles declining it (it was just a suggestion, after all). It is true when you say there exists a capitalist indoctrination about being productive, however I don't see @doomro 's post enforcing it. As for @memfis, him citing possible survival bias is actually clever, albeit hypothetical, remark - there is indeed such an issue as some people succeeding at something, while others going the same route and failing or not achieving as much. Looking back I can definitely say, though, that even where I didn't succeed at my original quest while putting a lot of effort it, I have still gained other things, and the only thing I regret are things that I have not even tried to do, when I knew I should have been doing them. Also, survival bias should be possibly accepted as the way of life - a natural selection in action, the real way it is as opposed to presumptive "survival of the fittest" paraphrase that ended being widely circulated in mainstream culture. That is, there is a degree of uncertainty, of whim of fate, in success/survival.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 12:59:18 GMT -5
If you read the rest of his post, he's trying to offer help and be positive. If you read joe-ilya's post, it's the opposite of what he probably needs. It's capitalist indoctrination that you need to be productive in order to be happy. It's not necessarily wrong -- It's very good to have a purpose. I get a lot of joy from creating Doom maps for people to play even though I get no money in return. Factories are built for high speed production efficiency, and it grinds the life out of people much sooner than it makes anyone proud of their efficiency. Its the necessity of having an income that forces me and people like me to do the kind of work that hurts their soul. Capitalist indoctrination? This might be the dumbest thing I've read this month. So what are you supposed to do with your life? Smoke weed and act like a degenerate good for nothing? Everything you enjoy was made by people who sacrificed a bit of themselves to bring it to you. The Doom maps we all enjoy making are possible because Romero and Co put 100 hours a week to bring us the game we love so much. If they had worked only 40 we might not even have this forum. What's wrong in taking pride in what you do and reaping the rewards? You're going to be sacrificing a bit of yourself no matter what you do so you might as well do something meaningful and lucrative like making good art, music, levels etc. What's bad is when you are stuck in a dead end, meaningless job. In the past, most people had no choice, but today you can get high quality, better than college AND cheap dirt (in comparison) education for many of these fields, including the one I work in. I can show you guys a few if you are interested. No need to enslave yourself with student loans for a worthless diploma and likely worse education. You just gotta be smart about how you invest your time and how you learn. You can get there if you have two hours to invest per day and more in the weekend. Come on, you people are from AMERICA. Why do I need to tell you this?
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 14, 2020 14:28:43 GMT -5
Capitalist indoctrination? This might be the dumbest thing I've read this month. So what are you supposed to do with your life? Smoke weed and act like a degenerate good for nothing? Everything you enjoy was made by people who sacrificed a bit of themselves to bring it to you. The Doom maps we all enjoy making are possible because Romero and Co put 100 hours a week to bring us the game we love so much. If they had worked only 40 we might not even have this forum. What's wrong in taking pride in what you do and reaping the rewards? I answer this question in the very next sentence where you stopped reading.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 15:27:09 GMT -5
@memfis Maybe I had a bit of luck but I also worked really hard. I wasn't very lucky in life until I started doing this, I was really lazy and worthless but it's funny how luck seems to follow you when you make a conscious and sustained effort to change yourself. And besides, I didn't go to them, they came to me, plus two other offers which I turned down. If you make quality stuff people will notice. So yeah, make good art, music, whatever. If you want to get in the game industry even your Doom projects have a lot of weight and what you learn in Doom modding will come a long way. 40oz I still don't see how being productive is somehow "capitalist indoctrination". Sure you can do this in your own time and that way everything you do is yours and yours alone but I'd rather make money out of art than work in a factory. Plus, if you're a freelancer, you get to make your own rules.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 15:31:26 GMT -5
I answer this question in the very next sentence where you stopped reading. Aside from the snarky assertion that he "stopped reading", the larger issue is that you really didn't answer his question. Where was the answer? Happiness through productivity isn't "capitalist indoctrination"(whatever that means), it's a what every successful human culture has been founded on. Finding meaning and purpose in your life always leads to fulfillment. One man's hell is another man's paradise - some people enjoy working jobs you don't like. All I've heard from you is anecdotal evidence that factory work is horrible. Some are certainly still rough, depending on location and company, but certainly not all. This isn't Colorado Fuel and Iron in 1914, bro. Massive strides have been made in how factory workers are treated. An example would be Nvidia, which has generous medical plan benefits, a generous paid parental leave policy of up to 22 paid weeks for mothers and 12 paid weeks for fathers. And if you read his post, you'd know that he was advocating that Joe learn a new skill so that he wouldn't have to work in a factory! Before you criticize other people's reading comprehension skills, be sure to read their posts. And "work that hurts my soul?" My soy meter just went off the charts. Is this a Doom forum or the Bath and Bodyworks Chamomille and Honey fragrance discussion page? So again, when DO you answer his question? If capitalism is so fucked, then what? Socialism, the political philosophy that's responsible for over 100 million human deaths? Get the Dell Walmsley Lifestyles Unlimited package and become a real estate investor? Be homeless and exist as a free spirit? What's the solution???
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Oct 14, 2020 18:21:49 GMT -5
I'm not answering why it's wrong because capitalist indoctrination can exist without it's existence being right or wrong. joe-ilya has multitudes more doom maps than the both of you have ever made combined, and he's still making more currently (and they look AND play good). He's served time in the military, he streams himself playing doom, and he plays guitar and plans to write his own songs (which was news to me until this thread) and all of this while working in a factory, and factories are obsessively focused on production as it is. He made this thread to say he was depressed and both of you are suggesting the blanket capitalist answer that gets shared all over the internet that it has something to do with him not producing enough. This is very telling; it shows you're both more fixated on more production than the actual problem he's going through, which more than likely is the source of his pain. I'm glad joe quit the job. It was the right thing to do. He's fucking exhausted. Let him rest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 18:53:58 GMT -5
...both of you are suggesting the blanket capitalist answer that gets shared all over the internet that it has something to do with him not producing enough. This is very telling; it shows you're both more fixated on more production than the actual problem he's going through, which more than likely is the source of his pain. I'm glad joe quit the job. It was the right thing to do. He's fucking exhausted. Let him rest. First: I suggested nothing to Joe. I merely pointed out why your response to doomro was flawed. Second: Where oh where did doomro say that Joe isn't "producing enough"? Literally, where 40? Straight question. I read his post five times and I couldn't find that. You are using our posts as a way to rail against Capitalism, while grossly misrepresenting what we actually said! Third: doomro's post is an attempt to solve the problem (as I pointed out in my last post no less) by offering Joe an opportunity to learn new skills that would give him other options for employment, which is way more effective than throwing a pity party. How does that relate to "production?" Fourth: How are we not letting Joe rest? It's a post on a forum. Joe is an adult. He can choose whether to take advice or leave it. He's not losing sleep over this thread. I don't think Joe is the snowflake you are making him out to be. Fifth: I'm well aware of how good of a mapper Joe is and how prolific he is, but what does that have to do with this conversation? Gotta throw that in to try to make us look bad, right dude? Cognitive dissonance, ladies and gentlemen.
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 14, 2020 19:59:21 GMT -5
Guys, please break it up.
I need to do specific physical non-professional full-time job/s for 6 months so I can get a big cash bonus that is offered to post-soldiers by the government. I am willing to do it, but due to the climate of 2020 a lot of the easier options are closed, so out of desperation I took one of the harder jobs, because the extra money is only granted within the first year after the military.
Anyway, by the time if I get the prize I'd like to learn one of the new skills I mentioned, so that I don't have to keep doing that physical work.
Here's to animation and music, I've been jamming on my guitar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 1:23:49 GMT -5
Guys, please break it up. I need to do specific physical non-professional full-time job/s for 6 months so I can get a big cash bonus that is offered to post-soldiers by the government. I am willing to do it, but due to the climate of 2020 a lot of the easier options are closed, so out of desperation I took one of the harder jobs, because the extra money is only granted within the first year after the military. Anyway, by the time if I get the prize I'd like to learn one of the new skills I mentioned, so that I don't have to keep doing that physical work. Here's to animation and music, I've been jamming on my guitar. I wish you luck! Maybe you could share some of your art. Sorry if I sounded a bit presumptuous but it didn't seem like you had a lot of choice in your OP. It read like you were going to be stuck there forever. Was just trying to help.
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Justince
Doomer
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Post by Justince on Oct 17, 2020 11:05:06 GMT -5
Good luck on pursuing creative endeavors which won't make you any money or offer little prospects. The experience and physical strength you would have earned at the factory would be a lot more helpful in the job market than playing fucking guitar chords but you do you, man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 14:27:40 GMT -5
Good luck on pursuing creative endeavors which won't make you any money or offer little prospects. The experience and physical strength you would have earned at the factory would be a lot more helpful in the job market than playing fucking guitar chords but you do you, man. I am not sure about music, afaik, it is harder to earn a good living with music but since he is also interested in visual arts, that would be a lot easier. There is no reason to discourage him but I would have a backup plan. Also not sure about the long term viability of physical work. Everything is being automated, especially physical stuff such as factory work, truck driving etc. Hell, I can even see high-level programming being automated in the not too distant future.
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Post by joe-ilya on Oct 17, 2020 18:38:21 GMT -5
Like I said, I will do low-tier jobs, but will also study, and develop my hobbies. It's just that the particular low-tier job (picking up big wooden planks) that I picked was too hard for me so I quit it, but I will pick a less strained job next time, hopefully this week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 22:46:06 GMT -5
Good luck on pursuing creative endeavors which won't make you any money or offer little prospects. The experience and physical strength you would have earned at the factory would be a lot more helpful in the job market than playing fucking guitar chords but you do you, man. Yeah art is just for losers, working like a slug in a factory until your body is broken is surely a much happier life. I think the world would be better off if we killed all the musicians and built a world dedicated to production lines, personally.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 3:08:10 GMT -5
Good luck on pursuing creative endeavors which won't make you any money or offer little prospects. The experience and physical strength you would have earned at the factory would be a lot more helpful in the job market than playing fucking guitar chords but you do you, man. Yeah art is just for losers, working like a slug in a factory until your body is broken is surely a much happier life. I think the world would be better off if we killed all the musicians and built a world dedicated to production lines, personally. Agree. He's not completely wrong because physical strength is a good thing to have but you can get that at the gym. Imagine if Lemmy had remained at his factory job.
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Justince
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Post by Justince on Oct 18, 2020 10:45:48 GMT -5
Good luck on pursuing creative endeavors which won't make you any money or offer little prospects. The experience and physical strength you would have earned at the factory would be a lot more helpful in the job market than playing fucking guitar chords but you do you, man. Yeah art is just for losers, working like a slug in a factory until your body is broken is surely a much happier life. I think the world would be better off if we killed all the musicians and built a world dedicated to production lines, personally. If it meant my nieces and nephews wouldn't be exposed to gutter hoodrat trash like WAP or the continual debasement of music by talentless retards propped up by a cynical music industry overall I could be convinced this plan would only benefit society.
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