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Post by deathevokation on Jan 7, 2021 1:27:51 GMT -5
After serving in the Rhodesian army my father served as a cop for a short period when he was trying to reintegrate into society after a horrible war.. and was also trying to keep the peace during a protest in the 80's and even when someone threw a fucking brick at his face that left a permanent scar he didn't shoot.. if a war veteran who still woke up screaming from seeing his comrades shot can resist gunning down protesters when he's in danger I'm pretty sure a capital cop can hold his fire when an unarmed woman is part of a protest... not shooting protesters to defend state property shouldn't be considered a virtue either, I shouldn't have to write this wall of text to explain this. You create political martyrs during a time when there's political strife and add fuel to political tesions. That he shot the side of the fence that was backing the blue while the other side wants to abolish the police didn't help either. It just leads me to believe that police were behaving with blm because they were told to, and that when they're put into a situation they're not used to they let their prejudice and sense of "justice" overcome them. There's definitely something wrong with American police.
Also is it me or is politics getting worse ? With quarantine I've been trying not to get caught up in politics because it's just so bleak and dwelling on it can make you go crazy.. there's no middleground that anyone can agree on anymore, in 2012 I thought things were bad when people would delete highschool friends and friendships would fall apart from discussing something we all have no control over.. but now there isn't even enough goodwill to talk about it with family without a rift forming, distancing relatives and even breaking some close families up.
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Post by DOEL on Jan 7, 2021 21:03:52 GMT -5
DOEL, I see you are fond of generalizations. Yet the conclusion you've arrived at cannot be legimitately derived without actually bothering to find every single reactionary out there and study their biography. Also, I don't get the meaning of "punks" in the context of your post, but it seems presumptive to think that every person who is reactionary is that way because being a "punk" is valuable to them, and being reactionary is somehow being "punk", whatever you meant by that term. But, it seems that your post simply amounts to "strawman" fallacy. You try to redefine the goals of the imagionary group you projected as "reactionaries", so that they can be demonstrated to fail those goals, without proving they actually had these goals in first place. Perhaps (but not certain) being a "punk" is in your value system, not theirs. Or was at some point in your life, that's more likely, and then that would be the case of projection - projecting the image of your own younger self (the one who you were some years or decades ago) onto your "opponents" (in quotes because I am talking about the image in your mind, an abstract depersonalized image of collective of people who would oppose your views and expected by you to do it a certain way). thanks for the copypasta. my clearly rigorous research into the nature of the right wing mindset may have contained generalizations, wow!
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Post by DOEL on Jan 7, 2021 21:08:56 GMT -5
Sheep. Divide and conquer: oldest trick in the book. Blacks against whites Women against men Rich against poor Heterosexuals against gays Gays against transexuals Old against young Etc. Victim olympics. Finally, destroy the most basic building block of society: the family. Husband/wife was done away with years ago. And now even parent/child (don't want to infect older parent/covid19) Cui bono? wait until you realize that identity politics and the heirachy of victimhood are a function of capitalism to stifle working class solidarity. and yes, too many progressives as well as conservatives are falling for it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 0:43:14 GMT -5
thanks for the copypasta. my clearly rigorous research into the nature of the right wing mindset may have contained generalizations, wow! Nice way to evade the issues I raised with your previous post, by claiming that I took you too seriously.
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Post by DOEL on Jan 8, 2021 2:08:37 GMT -5
thanks for the copypasta. my clearly rigorous research into the nature of the right wing mindset may have contained generalizations, wow! Nice way to evade the issues I raised with your previous post, by claiming that I took you too seriously. i mean, yea, it was all really seething and not relevant. like, yes, wow you've discovered logic, wow. though your overreaction to my clear generalization might be indicative of something!! oooh, let's talk about you if we're gonna start analyzing each other. did i hit A nErVe?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 7:31:14 GMT -5
DOEL, I would prefer to discuss the proper definition of term "reactionary" instead, with reference to historical examples such as what real political movements has been called "reaction" (think Thermidorians) and some scholarly input on the subject of both definition and the actual possible motivation of people described as "reactionary" (that is, I would like to see references to the scientific publications on the subject). And to do that in a separate topic. Say, the example of Thermidorian Reaction suggests: - that a political current described as reaction follows a revolution, and rejects at least some of the policies introduced by the regime established by that revolution - the "reactionary" regime resembles in spirit (by being authoritarian, for example) regime preceeding said revolution, although is different from it (Thermidorians didn't restore monarchy, nor did they return to religion backed by a state) Even if we drop the necessity of revolution taking place before any movement can be described as reactionary, what we see is that a reaction is not necessarily a return to the past and can introduce new policies. In other words, reactionaries may seek to return to old values (and even that not quite proven by this example), but not necessarily seek literal restoration of the former order of things and then freezing it still. In other words, from the same value system another kind of regime can be derived, and as such reactionary is not a reversal of the trend, but rather restoration of an older trend of things that still goes somewhere, just not where the current (or the one preceeding reaction, if reactionaries already seized power) is going. Or, in regards to what you said - to state my personal opinion (that is not based on some research) - I am inclined to believe is that reactionaries are not due to "contrarian" or "punk-wannabe" spirit but rather adhere to a different value system that existed some time before, and thus may have crystallized in such people during formative years of their development, which doesn't mean they necessarily want to revert everything but certainly may view new policies - the ones not aligned with their value system - as decadent. However, I can't really show whether this actually amounts to a group of people described as "reactionary" or to a group of people described as "conservative" or matches none of those. Either way, I don't think your hypothesis about what the underpinning motivation of "reactionaries" was correct. Granted, I actually don't have time to participate in the research I suggested, so I'll have to leave the topic of defining "reactionary" at this.
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Lobo
Doomer
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Post by Lobo on Jan 8, 2021 8:10:20 GMT -5
wait until you realize that identity politics and the heirachy of victimhood are a function of capitalism to stifle working class solidarity. and yes, too many progressives as well as conservatives are falling for it Your marxism is showing.
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Post by octopusbrains on Jan 8, 2021 11:07:21 GMT -5
Hate to say it, but there really aint any good cops. My pop is a retired cop and so is my uncle. I've been around cops all my life. I loveem but they're both bastards. There's always some yellow recruits with a genuine interest in pursuing good clean american justice and that's a hard line right into shitty paperwork. It's a brotherhood first and if you wanna be in the field, what they look for is loyalty. Some of the maniacs i met in the force would be criminals themselves if they hadn't gone the other way.
good cop bad cop is a thing you see in movies. but if they're all bad cops the massive weight of a corrupt system always gets the perp to fold. the intimidation factor is a crucial part of the whole shabang. criminals act tough but a department full of crooked cops with some loose screws breaks them down. Over time the police start to believe their own bullshit and charade starts to get fucking wild with no sane people left to level them out. especially not the police unions, those dudes are fucking deranged
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Post by DOEL on Feb 3, 2021 23:21:39 GMT -5
wait until you realize that identity politics and the heirachy of victimhood are a function of capitalism to stifle working class solidarity. and yes, too many progressives as well as conservatives are falling for it Your marxism is showing. I mean, yea, dialectical materialism and the hierarchy of needs are to history what gravity is to physics
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Clone
Doomer
execute order 69
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Post by Clone on Feb 4, 2021 16:51:26 GMT -5
Obviously we should just dissolve cops and rely on strapped citizens to shoot anyone who simply makes a wrong move. The amount of bodies that would pile up can be recycled into a nutritional paste and American hunger can end.
Less retardedly, there's good points and bad points in the OP. The other comments have good points and bad points (and some truly deranged points). If anything, all that does is highlight the extremely gray lines that exist in society, or more specifically, with the handling of law enforcement. Are all laws just? No. Should all laws be followed? Maybe, but if they're unjust maybe it'd be worth the risk of enforcement. Should cops enforce unjust laws? Again maybe. Maybe they shouldn't, but if they don't they'd be out of the job and replaced with someone who would. Should stupid kids who do dumb shit be given second chances? Depends on how dumb the shit maybe, prison fucks people up. Hormones and developing brains can be a bitch. But maybe they do deserve it. Should a guy get blasted for scalping a flag on a porch? Probably not as that's pretty petty, but he shouldn't be stealing either, even as a prank if he doesn't know the guy.
Basically what I'm saying here is there is no such thing as a clear cut answer for literally anything brought up here. Trying to find clean answers is an exercise of meaningless arguments. I'm not saying it shouldn't be debated, but I'm saying it won't go anywhere.
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GRUG
Doomer
30 year old boomer
Posts: 700
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Post by GRUG on Feb 4, 2021 17:57:04 GMT -5
Well I’ll be dammed, Clone is back on Doomer Boards! Where you been dude?
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Clone
Doomer
execute order 69
Posts: 41
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Post by Clone on Feb 4, 2021 23:04:59 GMT -5
I've been around. I vaguely forgot about this site's address until I tried to login into a different proboard I haven't been too in years and saw my login info for here still typed in. Just kinda passin' through. I was working on some terrible levels, maybe I'll toss 'em in the respective board.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
Posts: 2,296
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Feb 5, 2021 3:54:42 GMT -5
Holy shit that's clone
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40oz
diRTbAg
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Post by 40oz on Feb 5, 2021 16:22:13 GMT -5
I had a really stupid exchange with someone about this recently. When people hear "abolish the police" is it understood that abolishing the police is an end goal, and not like... the first step?
First, abolishing the police is not a call to leave this giant gaping vacuum of immense power and authority for anyone to just scoop up and weild for themselves... obviously. Somehow this always seems to be the first comment whenever it's brought up, so I'm just gonna clarify that no one who knows what abolish the police means is demanding that. Communities don't want every problem in their neighborhood to be seen as one solvable using force. Sometimes we have conflicts with other people, and we don't always want those people shot, tased, pepper sprayed, beaten, locked up, fined, or threatened with any of those things.
But in the current state of things, there's nothing else we can do because the annual budgets for every city keep getting reallocated away from education, transportation, housing, clinics, shelters, parks, waste, and other public services in favor of growing the police. Because the city can't provide any functional resources for their own citizens, the police have this giant strong arm to beat down the lower class who would otherwise depend on these services. Too many people get killed. To many parents get jailed before their kids are old enough to understand. They get fines and court fees and can't pay their bills. It exacerbates the problem of crime because it's the only avenue people can choose in these conditions. Nobody wants this.
The object of abolishing the police is to take the responsibilities police have been given ownership of and redistribute them to parties of specialists uniquely qualified to deal with the vast range of problems we generally call blue uniformed bulletproof tough guys with guns and fast cars for. Over the course of time, we gradually reallocate resources to our failing community centers, grow these more specialized parties, and eventually transition peacefully into the direction of a policeless society.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 18:37:40 GMT -5
...so I'm just gonna clarify that no one who knows what abolish the police means is demanding that... Two things: 1. You are not the spokesperson for everyone else. 2. "Abolish the police" is fairly simple language, even brain-dead libtard assholes that still live in their parents' basement and troll Facebook all day long can grasp that entry-level phrase. abol·ish | \ ə-ˈbä-lish \ abolished; abolishing; abolishes Definition of abolish transitive verb
: to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something) : ANNUL abolish a lawabolish slaveryAll told, you're attempting to put a positive spin and polish on an un-polishable turd of an idea. It's fucking stupid, and any self-adjusted decent human being knows damn well that it's fucking stupid.
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Post by deathevokation on Feb 6, 2021 0:56:03 GMT -5
I thought abolishing the police was just a meme that popped up for election time.
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Clone
Doomer
execute order 69
Posts: 41
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Post by Clone on Feb 6, 2021 2:34:20 GMT -5
Why you kids always so hard on each other? Life is terrible, the world sucks, we are all going to die eventually. There is nothing after the end. Make the most of life and die.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 10:31:56 GMT -5
No, actually I wouldn't accept abolishing police even as an end goal. You can't rely on people being good, poverty is not the only motive crimes happen. No matter what education, welfare distribution and other things you will throw at people there will always remain those who want to remove their political opponents, their competitors (business or career), etc. who thus have the incentive to kill or hire an assassin. Whether you like it or not, crime is to stay with humanity forever, and police and courts are the only way to somewhat mitigate it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 9:01:14 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I hadn't verified facts presented in the article nor evaluated the possible bias of its author. To me, though, the need for police is common sense, and we've seen what happens when it's driven out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 8:14:18 GMT -5
There are good cops, and bad cops. Just like with any organization.
Cops are human beings.
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