bigolbilly: It's an interesting map - reminds me of the sort of thing Walter C. used to make, but very hard. It seems to require a bit of foreknowledge to make it through, but once you know it's certainly beatable. It all seems to work, with plenty of moving parts and unusual design, so well done there. No suggestions, really.
Glad you liked the map 40oz, actually missed your comments initially (didn't refresh for a long time before posting and didn't realize it til now). I like the ideas for the invul sphere, I'm going to play around with it and see what works best. Didn't really consider the possibility of the player just missing the invul until it was raised here, but it seems like a plausible/serious enough situation to guard against. My feelings about the health/armor situation are in line with yours--even if it's overkill for higher skill players, I wanted to give lower skill players the possibility of making an against-all-odds comeback after taking a pummeling, especially since this isn't supposed to be a particularly hardcore set.
I'll think more about the final room. Given the layout and progression, conceivably *anything* could be in that final area. If this, say, ends up being the very last map of the set I might want to beef it up considerably or just even just design a new, more elaborate final encounter (though the danger here, as I see it, is that the map could end up being bit of a slog). From a pacing perspective, though, I like having just a quick parting skirmish here. Sorta akin to the old "demon in the exit room" id trope--not a major threat, but a little jolt on the way out.
40oz And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.
memfis Instead of shooting those lost souls directly, you could use the barrels I've put right in front of you when the trap opened up.
Second version of Ketchup Catch Up: -AVs replaced with barons -Replaced MIDI with a longer and less repetitive one (MXPX - Tomorrow's Another Day) -Looking around the first room is more accessible -Big zombie trap's adjusted -Sexy stairs
Version 1 of Queijao. That means Big Cheese. Gotta clean up the automap at the very least, let me know how gameplay is, demos always welcome, any bugs yadda yadda yadda. Music track is Whitewater by Kyuss from en dot midimelodies dot ru
Version 1.2 of Quiejao:
(link removed, update coming soon)
Music track is El Rodeo by Kyuss from en dot midimelodies dot ru and remixed by myself. Let me know about gameplay, bugs, demos always welcome in any format, and social security numbers please.
Last Edit: Aug 14, 2018 15:21:54 GMT -5 by glenzinho
Firstly, the map looks great. The water and yellow rocks, with a smattering of red, makes the outdoor area very nice to be hold. The interior areas are a bit underwhelming by comparison, but I imagine that's partly down to the relative muting of the colour scheme. As far as it plays... Well, it plays like a map that was meant to look good first and foremost. I found myself lacking direction and broadly unguided, with the keys not really standing out to me - particularly from the starting area. You have to scramble for supplies to begin with, but due to how open the area is and the necessity of stocking it for any eventuality, I ended up well-stacked for ammo and doing alright on the health/armour front. I didn't find a single secret and was comfortable once I'd started fully exploring rather than just scrambling to survive.
The Cyberdemon didn't quite work for me, as you either are hemmed in by it in a tight space before you get to the BFG, which necessitates fine dodging and an SSG slog, or you're chased off the high perch in a panic and then have too much height difference to chip away at him. Fortunately I had spotted the BFG, but that still leads to you having been knocked off of the perch and needing to teleport back up there. Luckily he'd given me some room by then, so I got him, but it's an awkward battle any way you approach it. The bit at the end with the wall of meat was entertaining enough, and it's good that you can get back up to the main area of the map from there if you survive.
I'm afraid I don't really have any suggestions, aside from pinning the cyber back with a monster blocking line so he leaves the way to the BFG clear and guards the key.
I have to say this was a little confusing. Many areas in the map look very similar and there aren't many landmarks that would help you distinguish them. So often it was hard to tell whether I was exploring a new area or revisiting an old one. Monsters and their corpses gave me hints sometimes but I felt like that wasn't enough. It would be nice if there were some towers or demon faces or anything to remember which area is which.
The overall structure of the map seems to be very much in player's favor. Most monsters are fixed on small islands while you're allowed to basically go anywhere and easily snipe the poor bastards from below. I wonder if making the whole liquid damaging would be too evil, but perhaps it's the quickest way to make the level a lot more challenging. Well, it's still reasonably fun since you get tons of rockets and plasma, so maybe it's not necessary to make it hard.
I agree with Phobus about the whole cyberdemon fight being too awkward. There is not much space up there, so it's sooo tempting to simply run away and shoot from below. But even if you feel lucky and go for the BFG, you have to backtrack a lot to even get a chance to use it on the boss. It's all a little bothersome and probably not a good way to end the map.
The visuals were definitely nice to look at, but they were just too samey, it honestly started to feel like a hedge maze.
Layout is too vertical for the enemies to be any fun to kill, they're either stuck on high up rocks where they can be easily sniped off (which isn't that fun to do in Doom anyways in such amounts) or they float right above your head and bite your infinitely tall actor's air from above, and the worst part is that the armors are placed after the jumping sections which you can't do properly without killing some fools first, if one of the armors would've been at the starting hub with all the weapons, it would've been more fair to deal with those flying fiends and high up hitscanners.
The concept of the gameplay isn't good too (At least from half of the map I played), it's just about sniping enemies with mostly shells and bullets, if some of those would've been replaced with rockets, the sniping would be more challenging, but also more brief, satisfying and less tedious to perform. The most fun thing in what I've played so far was to kill that arch-vile at the start TBH.
The reason why I finished only half the map is because I got stuck at the end of the FDA in a waterfall after performing a pretty simple jump in hopes of getting a secret.
Thanks for the feedback gents, I agree with the same-y looks part as I was starting to get a little confused myself even with mapper knowledge. Going in and out of dreamland last night I was already getting ideas how to make it all stand out a bit more so I’ll implement and see. Your demo will be good to watch joe, curious to see where you got stuck and how to fix that and maybe implement a secret just for you! While Phobus found no secrets I can see that Memfis clearly found the plasma one. Thanks all, I will watch and study and polish that shit!
Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018 1:40:24 GMT -5 by glenzinho
Post by bigolbilly on Aug 14, 2018 22:52:37 GMT -5
Whoops glenzinho I just finished playing through v1.2. Don't know if these will be of any use now, but passing along: first tries, second tries, final successful try (with a few false starts). Took me several sessions throughout the day to get my head around this one and do it all in one go!
FWIW, my comments are along the lines of everyone else: looks great but confusing to navigate, cyber fight is awkward. Probably stuff you fixed now heh. I found it pretty tough, and you'll see a lot of struggle in the demos before my ultimate triumph. But there was a lot to like in V1.2. I'm a sucker for maps that give you a lot of freedom to scrounge for resources to prepare to for this and that encounter, and that reward playing over and over, trying different approaches, and generally improving little by little each time you die and restart.
Also have an FDA for joe-ilya. Pretty fun. Ammo was tight but worked out pretty much just right on my playthrough, creating some stressful situations but never anything that felt like bullshit. Crushing barons at the end was the highlight for me, really nice way to take it out (were those viles before? if so, glad you changed to barons).
That's a shame bigolbilly , I tightened up the gameplay in V1.5, made visual distinction as well as some easier accessability and the secrets stand out more. Still I'll check your demo as the fundamentals are still there, cheers dude!
Speaking of updated versions, here's 1.66:
I swear one of these days I'll remember to test in -complevel 2 properly, heh.
Last Edit: Aug 16, 2018 0:51:00 GMT -5 by glenzinho
bigolbilly Your FDA link links me to download my map instead.
glenzinho FDA for 1.66(6?) : doomshack.org/uploads/dbp6glen166-joefda.lmp The first half of the map is still as unenjoyable as the previous version I played (I already told you why), but I was delightfully surprised with how fun the latter half turned out to be. That megaarmor+soulsphere secret should have both the sectors joined, to fix the secrets count.
Very fun map, I like how revenants encourage running around the map. That arch-vile trap isn't fun, I'd rather have that invul removed and the arch-viles in that trap cut down, because I honestly think that it would be more fun to hide from the arch-viles with the moving floors on the catwalks instead of just plainly charging into them with an invul with no effort. I also feel like some of the enemies in the red key balcony should teleport or something behind the player (in the catwalk room before the red key balcony) to make it more fun, than just gunning down another wall of flesh in the player's front view effortlessly, which is already done to death by 40oz in his map.
40oz Your simulation presets have one little error where there's a misalignment behind the spawn, glenzinho and bigolbilly are victims of it.
Added visual distinction, landmarks, nicer pathing, conjoined those 2 secrets into one for Joe, and tweaked (read: cunted up) the Cyberdemon battle. If anyone is good at Sector Effect #3 in a pyramidal context please help a brother out in relation to my blue tech pyramid in game. I tweaked it as much as I could stand and it's decent, but not 100% what I'm going for. Music track is now Demon Cleaner by Kyuss from the above mentioned midi site.
Last Edit: Aug 16, 2018 17:51:40 GMT -5 by glenzinho
Also here's a v3 of Circuit Breaker. Still have some Joe comments to think about. I like the idea of mixing things up with the floatin' squad around the red key. The invul/vile fight has been tweaked a bit since v2, though maybe not in a way that will change your opinion on it. I'll ponder it a bit more.