|
|
Post by Herr Dethnout on Jul 11, 2023 20:44:47 GMT -5
idk if I'm a dumbfuck or my pc is so outdated to run this (or maybe a combination of both), but everytime I try to open the game appears this  After seeing the conlog.log it seems the problem is that doesn't detect my Open GL ver (although is 2.1 and GLSL 1.20)  In fact, is a complete nosense... |
|
tdrr
Doomer
Posts: 68 
|
Post by tdrr on Jul 11, 2023 21:56:32 GMT -5
That's just barely enough to run it, but weird it doesn't work. Intel hasn't had the best history with K8Vavoom but I've run it on much worse than that integrated GPU lol.
One thing is that I've had consistently worse results with the Windows drivers. Might be something with them causing issues. Linux Mesa drivers are usually a lot better (even if still not 100% correct all of the time).
|
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 11, 2023 23:32:36 GMT -5
Herr Dethnout, known bug in intel drivers. sadly, i haven't found any workaround. technically they should work, but in practice they cannot create FBOs in required format. i'm sorry. wrong OpenGL version is one of the sympthomes of buggy drivers, btw. that's why the engine is so… nervous about it. ;-)
|
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 11, 2023 23:36:42 GMT -5
In case of k8vavoom even one more user is a pretty significant increase especially when you only have about 2.5 users give or take one. that's not the numbers i am interested in. interesting numbers starts from several hundreds. You could get all 8 people of ECs userbase if you add DDF support ;) and that is REALLY INTERESTING. ;-) i still have plans to try it, it is interesting problem to solve. |
|
|
|
Post by Herr Dethnout on Jul 12, 2023 8:58:52 GMT -5
That's just barely enough to run it, but weird it doesn't work. Intel hasn't had the best history with K8Vavoom but I've run it on much worse than that integrated GPU lol. One thing is that I've had consistently worse results with the Windows drivers. Might be something with them causing issues. Linux Mesa drivers are usually a lot better (even if still not 100% correct all of the time). Yup, the intel Windows drivers are so messed up, that I needed to use wtfi tool to being able to use LZDoom lol. Tried using it in k8 vir didn't work. Herr Dethnout, known bug in intel drivers. sadly, i haven't found any workaround. technically they should work, but in practice they cannot create FBOs in required format. i'm sorry. wrong OpenGL version is one of the sympthomes of buggy drivers, btw. that's why the engine is so… nervous about it. ;-) Welp, it seems that my only solution is getting a GPU upgrade. Thanks anyway.  |
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 12, 2023 9:44:11 GMT -5
Welp, it seems that my only solution is getting a GPU upgrade. Thanks anyway. :P some newer (or older) drivers may work too. i've seen this bug appearing and disappearing between releases. maybe something in how i'm initializing OpenGL triggers it too. we've once spent almost two weeks trying to convince intel drivers that they actually can do what we need (because the GPU itself can), yet without success. the problem seems to be the particular FBO format with stencil buffer. the engine tries to ask several FBO configs in the hope that at least one will work, but there, nothing works. and the renderer cannot work without a stencil buffer, it is required for decals and some other parts. i never thought that stencil buffer could be a problem with GPU that supports FBOs, and now it is too late to change the renderer to make stencil buffer optional. alas. the thing that makes me mad is that hardware is ok, and capable of doing what i need… |
|
|
|
Post by agiskell on Jul 12, 2023 14:59:26 GMT -5
that's not the numbers i am interested in. interesting numbers starts from several hundreds. And that's where MBF21 support comes in. That, and some shilling, so to speak. |
|
Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 594
|
Post by Lobo on Jul 12, 2023 15:32:53 GMT -5
I don't concur.
I think the mappers targetting mbf21 are exactly the users who would shun "advanced" ports in favor of something more "vanilla" like dsda or similar.
Otherwise they wouldn't be using mbf21 at all but something more advanced/powerful.
|
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 12, 2023 23:43:54 GMT -5
And that's where MBF21 support comes in. That, and some shilling, so to speak. nope. Lobo is absolutely right. and players who prefer advanced ports are already using GZDoom, and will not switch (otherwise they would much sooner). so real numbers will be around 1-3. been there, seen that. but of course, i may be wrong, and you can prove me wrong by showing those hundreds who are ready to switch, and only waiting for working MBF21 implementation. i'm sure that there should be a lot of forum posts (here, on DW, on ZDF, anywhere) about that. |
|
Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 594
|
Post by Lobo on Jul 13, 2023 2:31:32 GMT -5
We added support for the mapping part of mbf21 and our userbase jumped by a massive 0%...
|
|
|
|
Post by agiskell on Jul 13, 2023 9:30:55 GMT -5
We added support for the mapping part of mbf21 and our userbase jumped by a massive 0%... What an implication! Given that k8vavoom only has like 1-3 people using it, even one more person using it because it has MBF21 support is pretty significant. but of course, i may be wrong, and you can prove me wrong by showing those hundreds who are ready to switch, and only waiting for working MBF21 implementation. Where did I say anything about the hundreds? You were the one saying that. |
|
SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,344
|
Post by SilverMiner on Jul 13, 2023 9:57:14 GMT -5
Nobody gets a one more user cuz their port has mbf21 cuz mbf21 means "conservative" ports like woof and dsda.
So adding mbf21 to anything else is a useless idea
|
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 13, 2023 10:10:38 GMT -5
Given that k8vavoom only has like 1-3 people using it, even one more person using it because it has MBF21 support is pretty significant. i am really amazed by your telepathic abilities: you seem to know what exactly i think about project goals, and project userbase! now please, remind me why should i spend weeks implementing something i myself don't need to increment k8vavoom userbase by one imaginary user. please. Where did I say anything about the hundreds? You were the one saying that. exactly here. i see no way to interpret your answer as meaning something different. |
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 13, 2023 10:13:36 GMT -5
So adding mbf21 to anything else is a useless idea not that useless, tbh: currently i have no way to play MBF21 maps in the port of my choice. ;-) but considering the total amount of wads to play, and efforts required to implement MBF21… maybe ten years later it will have some sense. but definitely not now. ;-) |
|
|
|
Post by agiskell on Jul 13, 2023 11:30:32 GMT -5
Nobody gets a one more user cuz their port has mbf21 cuz mbf21 means "conservative" ports like woof and dsda. So adding mbf21 to anything else is a useless idea Really? Why does GZDoom support it then? It's anything but conservative, quite the opposite in fact. now please, remind me why should i spend weeks implementing something i myself don't need to increment k8vavoom userbase by one imaginary user. Ah, so you want to talk about ACTUAL users... In that case, k8vavoom having one more ACTUAL user([insert (You) here]) will be at the very least 100% better or increasingly infinitely better. |
|
SilverMiner
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
Posts: 1,344
|
Post by SilverMiner on Jul 13, 2023 11:54:23 GMT -5
considering the total amount of wads to play, and efforts required to implement MBF21… maybe ten years later it will have some sense. but definitely not now. ;-) I agree. Really? Why does GZDoom support it then? It's anything but conservative, quite the opposite in fact. Gzdoom is popular already, it's bloated and mbf21 is just a part of its bloat |
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 13, 2023 12:04:21 GMT -5
Ah, so you want to talk about ACTUAL users... wow, what a surprise! who would think that! In that case, k8vavoom having one more ACTUAL user([insert (You) here]) will be at the very least 100% better or increasingly infinitely better. i'm still interested where you bought your telepathic device that allows you to know what is better for the project better than the project leader. |
|
|
|
Post by agiskell on Jul 13, 2023 12:46:08 GMT -5
i'm still interested where you bought your telepathic device that allows you to know what is better for the project better than the project leader. Telepathic device? Who needs that? I need none of that. All you need is a little something, a little something that I'm pretty sure everyone is supposed to have. Take three guesses on what it could be. I'm sure you can handle this puzzle. At least I hope you can. mbf21 is just a part of its bloat Bloat my ass! MBF21 is anything but bloat. It's actually one of those things GZDoom did right for once. |
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 13, 2023 12:52:21 GMT -5
Take three guesses on what it could be. I'm sure you can handle this puzzle. one is more than enough: it's a case of inflated ego. |
|
|
|
Post by agiskell on Jul 13, 2023 13:44:07 GMT -5
Take three guesses on what it could be. I'm sure you can handle this puzzle. one is more than enough: it's a case of inflated ego. Swing and a miss. My ego is perfectly fine. I don't what about your ego, but it may need a maintenance check. But I suppose it's probably fine too. So if there's any problem, it may be lying somewhere else... |
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 13, 2023 13:48:00 GMT -5
i am infallable godlike genius, therefore i can never be wrong. it's that easy.
|
|
Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 594
|
Post by Lobo on Jul 13, 2023 14:41:19 GMT -5
All hail Ketmar I, God Emperor!
|
|
|
|
Post by agiskell on Jul 13, 2023 16:09:28 GMT -5
i am infallable godlike genius, therefore i can never be wrong. it's that easy. You might be surprised, but even so-called "inflatable" godlike geniuses can be wrong, which is also pretty easy. They're also rather good at getting pretty carried away. Instead of getting carried away, why not get back to the point? The point being: what's the actual hold up? Because it sure as hell not implementing support, DDF definitely doesn't seem to be that easy to implement too. Wouldn't implementing MBF21 support be an interesting problem to solve too? Besides, if you're worrying about playtesting, I am more than willing to cover that base. Also, unlike DDF(at least it doesn't appear there's a lot of recent(ish) stuff that's either out or in development), people are actually making use of MBF21 and what it has to offer. I can name a few wads off the top of my head that support MBF21 and are worth checking out. Hell, I am going to do so right in this post: AD MORTEM, 30 Monsters Challenge, What Lies Beneath, Temporal Tantrum, Judgment and Corruption. Although, I suppose supporting DDF has its perks too such as having access to old mods that would've been previously only accessible on EDGE and its forks and... I suppose whatever few mods will come out for it in the future, if any? I can't really think of much else I can say at this moment. Maybe I'll think of something else or recall something later. |
|
Lobo
Doomer
Posts: 594
|
Post by Lobo on Jul 13, 2023 16:20:01 GMT -5
You are not understanding anything here.
GZdoom has probably at least 12 devs coding on it. Some of them will have a special interest in some feature and work on that, another on something else. They also have a massive user base.
K8vavoom is just 1 dev. If he has no interest in a feature, then there is no one else to pick up the slack. And because there is limited human resources, then the priorities are very different.
BTW, EDGE-Classic has had several new mods recently as well as updated older ones. And a big new one is about to drop this month.
|
|
|
|
Post by ketmar on Jul 13, 2023 16:25:45 GMT -5
The point being: what's the actual hold up? it is boring, and i don't like it. Wouldn't implementing MBF21 support be an interesting problem to solve too? nope. there is no challenge at all. EDGE has unique actor model, which doesn't blend well with the one that is used by k8vavoom. make them both work is something that requires a lot of thinking and designing. and implemeting MBF21 is Yet Another Boring Parser. k8vavoom is my personal playground, where i'm having fun implementing things i consider interesting. shadowmaps were interesting. 3d polyobjects were interesting. DDF is interesting. MBF21 is not interesting. |
|
