40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 15, 2020 11:17:36 GMT -5
It blows my mind when I drive to my parents house and see so many thin blue line american flags and "we support our local police" signs cluttering peoples yards. Its now a bipartisan thing.
"Backing the blue" doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Saying it makes you think theres rampant crime and that you're grateful for the humble policeman who's dodging bullets and tackling drug lords to keep us safe from it. You're empathizing with the brave souls that put their lives on the line to keep your white suburban neighborhood safe from marxist evildoers who want to burn down your house and redistribute your retirement plan.
Here's the reality. There is no reward for supporting your police. You don't get any good citizen points. It means nothing to the police, and it means everything to the people who have to deal with the police. In a system with increasing emphasis on wealth inequality, constantly changing laws, and questioning the constitution, youre saying indiscriminately that "people who have run ins with the law deserve it."
I think backing the blue is a defense mechanism. An admission of fear. I'll explain later in this post.
Its well known, here in America, that if you are pulled over, the officer can write you a ticket for a few hundred dollars. and that can fuck your whole week up (if you're underpaid like almost everyone is.) You're told by friends and family that its best to be friendly and cordial. It makes the officers job easier and when you schmooze the officer they are more likely to let you off with a verbal warning rather than a written infraction. It's also known in circles of women that sometimes if you flirt, or cry, they might let down their guard and leave you be.
But if you get angry, argumentative, or challenge their authority, they will find ways to double your fine by charging you for noncrimes most people dont really know about and would otherwise ignore. The weight of your charges lies more on your person to person response to authority than the general safety of the community.
What do you do if an intruder breaks into your house? The intruder will likely be in and out of your house faster than you can call the emergency operator. What if you know someone is planning to break into your home but they haven't done it yet? Police are useless there too, because they can only charge for crimes AFTER they've happened.
Most peoples experiences with police were as a teen running away from house parties and bars that got raided by police, or being pulled over for a traffic stop. I have had a crime happen to me where I actually needed them to help me, and they were useless even then. It took them about 6 months to find and prosecute the suspect who did it. By the time they had found him I didn't even care about the crime anymore, it already happened. I dealt with it and I recovered. After he was on trial I found out he was a 14 year old kid who will be in juvenile hall until he's 21. I think he's still serving time today.
Not to minimize the seriousness of the crime, but I remember being a fucking idiot when I was 14 and now this kid has been pulled out of school and will probably be tethered to the criminal justice system for the rest of his life. It will effect him for the rest of his life while he's looking for work, looking for a place to live, his relationship with his friends and family, etc.
Theres no real reason to support the police. Theres no reward for being a good citizen, because the absence of state mandated punishment and large fines is not a reward. I dont believe people really have as much respect for the law as their lawn signs claim they do. They're just admitting fear in a slogan that sounds like strength and unity. I know that's not what it is. I lived in this white suburban neighborhood as a kid. I know there's no community here. I know you're pretending not to know anything about the law at all.
People break laws all the time, often knowingly. And they get away with it! US law makes it impossible to be completely 100% squeaky clean if there were 24/7 police surveillance on each person and charges were made with insatiable scrutiny.
I understand that people can have empathy for the individual lives of police officers, but if youre genuine about it, which most people are not, your empathy shouldnt stop at the officer. What if he quits the force, or the scope of their responsibility were to be reduced? It's just a fucking job. They still are who they are even when removed from the danger associated with being an officer of the law. People are not their profession. Any job that seeks to reduce your identity to that of your profession warrants heavy criticism.
In the words of Dr. Robert Higgs:
"The whole good cop / bad cop question can be disposed of decisively. We need not enumerate what proportion of cops appears to be good or listen to someone's anecdote about his uncle Charlie, an allegedly good cop.
We need only consider the following:
A cop's job is to enforce the laws, all of them;
Many of the laws are manifestly unjust, and some are even cruel and wicked;
Therefore every cop has to agree to act as an enforcer for laws that are manifestly unjust or even cruel and wicked.
There are no good cops."
In the United States, it's not that rare to find people who say Blue Lives Matter, Back the Blue, or have overly nationalist, patriotic, stickers on the back of their vehicles that say they support the police, or have thin blue line American flags hanging over the front of their houses, or thin blue line punisher skulls on their tshirts. I think these are intentional signals. They are literally signaling to the police "dont look at me! I'm your ally!"
I know this. I have friendly, loving, Mexican neighbors living in my neighborhood with these style stickers and signage on their vehicles and property while Donald Trump had been mobilizing the police force and immigration customs enforcement to aggressively seek people that look like them for deportation.
Even with Trump soon to be out of office I don't have share any conviction with this unbridled support americans have for their police.
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nxGangrel
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Post by nxGangrel on Dec 15, 2020 12:20:42 GMT -5
Is the police force corrupt and need to be reformed? Yes Do we need them in society? Yes
But honestly fuck all of you, fuck the police and fuck the protesters. You are all horrible people that take yourselves way too seriously and deserve to be buried alive in cement, I guess.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 13:00:19 GMT -5
There is no reward for supporting your police. You don't get any good citizen points. It means nothing to the police, and it means everything to the people who have to deal with the police. In a system with increasing emphasis on wealth inequality, constantly changing laws, and questioning the constitution, youre saying indiscriminately that "people who have run ins with the law deserve it." I agree with this part - the type of support that is being discussed is an empty gesture to police, and a trigger for some other categories of people. Thus it would be better if people stopped doing that.
The "no good cops" seems out of balance, however. This implies that being a policeman means you can't have any moral choice and are absolutely constrained by parameters set by the law in such a way that no choice is ever being made. I had dealt with the cops twice this year, in both cases the decisions were not by the book (I don't live in US, though), and far less harsh than the law and circumstances permitted. I don't want to mention any personal details, but, basically, the policemen have chosen to write report in such a way that permitted no formal charge to take place (even though they could and were almost required to). So, police doesn't always chose to enforce unfair laws. In some cases, they have the option of determined which law was breached, or which circumstances may be taken into account which allow to request a less severe punishment or a different kind of punishment which can at least help someone in conflict. I have also once overhead the cops telling a story of how they settled a particular situation, where a woman who has apparently developed PSTD, was to be charged for some crime and would spend long time in prison - if it was left to junior officer, because the crime was "particularly obvious" and there was no effort to spend solving it. Instead, a senior interferred to gather evidence so that a woman was found to be mentally ill, and that her mental lllness was something she developed on the job, thus being entitled a pension which would go to support her family (since she was also to be found incapable of caring for herself the pension would be paid directly to the caretakers - her family), whereas had she gone to prison she won't be able to earn enough.
So, policemen cannot overturn the law but they can make moral choices that affect other people - and different cops may do different choices, some will do more than the minimum their job requires, they will consider what effect a certain punishment will have on other people (not the offender, for example), and some won't.
Within police, there are also quite diverse occupations, some may have fixed day schedule, others line of duty is basically 24/7, being callable at any time. Also, there are essential workers who can't stay on quarantine (unless ill) to protect themselves during pandemic.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Dec 15, 2020 15:32:19 GMT -5
Here's the reality. There is no reward for supporting your police. You don't get any good citizen points. It means nothing to the police, and it means everything to the people who have to deal with the police. There's no reward for being a woke BLM ACAB guy either. People support stuff because they can get behind what they do, not for some sort of reward. "people who have run ins with the law deserve it." Yeah that's how it works. If you do something illegal, you should suffer consequences. I don't think that's a particularly wild concept The police works like what you describe in any country in the world lol I really don't see what's there to be mad about. Not to minimize the seriousness of the crime, but I remember being a fucking idiot when I was 14 and now this kid has been pulled out of school and will probably be tethered to the criminal justice system for the rest of his life. It will effect him for the rest of his life while he's looking for work, looking for a place to live, his relationship with his friends and family, etc. It's sad but he could've just... you know... not done illegal stuff. It's not that hard. I really don't get the point of this post. I'd say it's a bunch of completely retarded fake woke bullshit but I think you're better than that, maybe there's something I'm missing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 16:12:24 GMT -5
Like in this video?
Honest question: what do you think the police would do if the citizens didn't use thin blue line flags?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 16:32:23 GMT -5
Here's the reality. There is no reward for supporting your police. You don't get any good citizen points. It means nothing to the police, and it means everything to the people who have to deal with the police. Sometimes people do things not for a "reward", but just to be kind and supportive of others. Look up "altruism" in the dictionary. And actually, you're totally wrong when you say "it means nothing to the police." Police are human beings with feelings and emotions, and it heartens them to see a showing of support as they risk their lives. You've never had a job even 1/10th as challenging or demanding as that of a law enforcement officer because you lack the spine for it. Yet you have the audacity to post a thread attempting to garner sympathy, in which you complain about your "grueling" part time gig as a server at a Mexican restaurant. Poor baby. Your entire post is full of baseless claims about how police and the U.S. criminal justice system operates(not to mention Trump), again rather typical. Yet other forum members catch hell when they post a link to an article that was written by someone who isn't a fence-sitter. I have a thin blue line flag flying on a flagpole attached to my portico. I get compliments on it all the time from neighbors. My hope is that one day, someone will try to steal it off of the flagpole while I'm at home. Because if that happens, the crime scene cleanup team is gonna need a paint scraper to peel what's left of the thief off of my driveway.
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Post by joe-ilya on Dec 15, 2020 17:25:54 GMT -5
Another of 40oz's political threads gets quickly debunked by the rest of the forum, in less than half a page.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 15, 2020 17:46:07 GMT -5
Honest question: what do you think the police would do if the citizens didn't use thin blue line flags? Can you restate this question? Thin blue line flags didn't exist until recently. Pointing to the time before they became popular in which not much has changed seems easy and probably not the answer you're thinking of.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Dec 15, 2020 18:30:14 GMT -5
There's no reward for being a woke BLM ACAB guy either. People support stuff because they can get behind what they do, not for some sort of reward. The signs don't represent support in any tangible way. Donated money goes to the institution, not the actual officers. And the police here get more than enough funding without it (multiple times more than any other government programs here.) In the United States laws are changed by lobbyists and the wealthy that make large campaign donations to elect their chosen leaders into place. People placing signs on their yard to support the police is an expression of apathy towards others in your own country. It's to support whatever possible changes can be made enforceable by our police whether they're in the public interest or not. Yeah that's how it works. If you do something illegal, you should suffer consequences. I don't think that's a particularly wild concept The police works like what you describe in any country in the world lol I really don't see what's there to be mad about. Ok then lets take away the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" It's sad but he could've just... you know... not done illegal stuff. It's not that hard. Well duh. Given the choice between doing something and not doing anything, doing the thing is always harder. Unless not doing anything is actually killing you, which is the case for people living in poverty. I really don't get the point of this post. I'd say it's a bunch of completely retarded fake woke bullshit but I think you're better than that, maybe there's something I'm missing. Thinking out loud mostly. It's sad to see people in my neighborhood (and moreover, a lot of the country) living only moment to moment. Doing and saying things without a comprehensive understanding of what it means in the long term.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 4:33:18 GMT -5
Hmm, I sometimes see it the other way:
1. Being a cop means that a whole lot of people will hate you solely based on your profession, you will often have to make very difficult decisions, you might have to enforce laws you disagree with, you can die, etc.
2. However, someone still has to do this tough, stressful, questionable, dangerous, thankless job in order for society to function properly.
3. Therefore people who choose to do it are heroes and martyrs, making a personal sacrifice for the sake of others.
If all cops decide to skip work tomorrow or better yet, take a one week vacation, you're completely fucked. They are the backbone of this whole operation and even with all this hate they still go on. If that doesn't warrant respect I don't know what does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 10:51:18 GMT -5
It really boils down to specific person what kind of cop they are. Both positions "cops are evil" and "cops are heroes" seems to mistake expectations made of police for their actual actions. Speaking of the "bad side", policemen may use their experience with the law to get away from criminal charges, especially since they have the right to use violence (and if there was any "excess" is determined on case by case basis, rather than being by default wrong).
Surely the one who killed George Floyd was not a hero by any means.
What I take is that "back the blue" is against vilifying police in general, and that at least some people's motivation to state their moral support for police is actually genuine, but there may be people who have some other kind of motivation as well. For some people, it may even be fear or racism - I think the crowd behind the slogan is not homogeneous. Also, it is possible that the rallies are being sponsored by those with political agenda - this doesn't mean there are no people who genuinely support the police, but it is obvious that government would be interested in promoting this movement.
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Post by DOEL on Jan 4, 2021 20:56:44 GMT -5
bravo. all cops (as they currently are in the US) are bastards. the entire system is corrupt. unjust laws are baked into the system in the name of profit (IE the war on drugs, private prisons)
they need to be reformed from the bottom up. cops are necessary but this particular american brand of policing needs to go. they're taught to escalate violence when they should be doing the exact opposite.
if the police in the US are in any way a good, then why don't they hold themselves to, like, any standard? we wouldn't have people getting violent in the streets if there was peaceful legal recourse for getting justice from the police. alas, there isn't so shit gets set on fire.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jan 4, 2021 23:58:08 GMT -5
DOEL thank you. thats exactly right. Sometimes terrible things happen by the police and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Many of them (at least around here) don't act like they're one with the community. They're always suspicious of crime no matter who it is. Additionally, its not a matter of whether anyone who is a cop is a bad person. I'm sure anyone here probably knows a person who is a cop and is a totally cool dude. Yes, fine. An evil accountant and a selfless nurturing loving accountant are both accountants. When people say "all cops are bastards" they're referring to the job description. Being a cop doesn't help communities the way someone who feeds the homeless or does volunteer community service. It's a well paid profession that gives you power and authority behind the law. It's a passion for someone who feels they deserve undue respect. There are many more respectable positions in which you can serve your community and good people often flock to those positions. That's why most cities don't have enough police officers, and the ones you see in bodycam footage and cell phone cameras often get away with doing terrible things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 0:00:39 GMT -5
Hahaha
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jan 5, 2021 0:44:22 GMT -5
Slytherin is a character they made up for this series. Crowder doesn't source any of the posts or tweets or anything he used as background information for this guy. I looked, and i can't find them anywhere. He cites a petition, an event, posts and comments, pictures, they're nowhere to be found. I did find the "Greater Boston Communists" page on facebook but the post shown on the video is nowhere to be found and the content the page posts doesn't seem authentic. I found posts on reddit and other forums about this video, and found very few comments about the person in the video, or anyone curious about who he is. There's multiple news articles from washington times,, a self identified conservative leaning news site, linking to this video but they just call him "this man," and "the antifa activist" they also cite the baseless claim that he placed "a $500 offer to kill members of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement." which is both unsubstantiated in the article AND in the video, and especially absurd because anyone who calls themselves antifa doesn't have any money. Crowder is a comedian, he's not a private investigator. He creates comedy for unthinking loons like you. It's modern day reality tv, Bob.
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Post by optimus on Jan 5, 2021 4:57:38 GMT -5
anyone who calls themselves antifa doesn't have any money. Wait what? Just about everyone who is antifa is piss poor and can't find 500$ ? That doesn't make sense.. There is a bigger diversity of people claiming to be antifa, from students to assistant professors and journalists hiding as antifa at night. I remember there was an article of a young antifa woman who was caught and she was previously staying on her parents one million villa or something. I can't verify that for sure, but there is a diversity of people in antifa and some can be middle class who just want to join the "revolution", and even if they were entirely poor, 500$ is not much (especially if you are dedicated to the cause and they can crowdfund together such shit, it doesn't have to be from a single person) and they can certainly afford getting drugs and weapons and other shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 15:27:54 GMT -5
...for unthinking loons like you... There's that liberal condescension, straight out of the playbook. I sometimes wonder why you bother replying to someone as obviously mentally retarded as I am. If I'm so utterly beneath you, just move the fuck on. It wasn't even a post directed at you, but because you're a miserable troll you just had to post something attempting to tear someone else down. Well played. I wonder if it's ever occurred to you that this is why some people have reservations about you, man. Two things: 1. Who cares if it's fake? I never posted that it was real, I posted the video with "Hahaha." It made me laugh and made you salty, so mission accomplished. 2. A possible reason why you couldn't find the guy was because the Facebook page whose post he shared got taken down, and their new page was created in January of 2020. The video and the events leading up to it happened in mid-2018. Just because you can't find the guy doesn't mean he isn't real. Don't flatter yourself. www.facebook.com/GreatestBostonCommunistsNote the "About" and "Page Transparency" sections. Finally, here's a "real" video for you. Same caption from me: "Hahaha."
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Jan 5, 2021 15:54:21 GMT -5
Why do you think I'm such a miserable troll? Watching people get shot is not a normal thing to take joy in. None of what you're posting about has to do with police or supporting the police.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 19:27:39 GMT -5
The Crowder video confronts a guy who advocated for the murder of ICE agents, who are part of law enforcement. Watching people get shot is not a normal thing to take joy in. I never claimed to be normal, but I do love watching Antifa scum get what's coming to them. If that makes me a sociopath, I'll accept it.
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Post by DOEL on Jan 5, 2021 21:53:00 GMT -5
Why do you think I'm such a miserable troll? Watching people get shot is not a normal thing to take joy in. None of what you're posting about has to do with police or supporting the police. reactionaries are like this. their politics don't go beyond that distinct middle-school contrarianism. they believe they're punks when the greatest material injustice they've suffered is being yelled at by twitter SJWs or having to purchase a video game that features certain demographics
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2021 1:09:51 GMT -5
DOEL, I see you are fond of generalizations. Yet the conclusion you've arrived at cannot be legimitately derived without actually bothering to find every single reactionary out there and study their biography. Also, I don't get the meaning of "punks" in the context of your post, but it seems presumptive to think that every person who is reactionary is that way because being a "punk" is valuable to them, and being reactionary is somehow being "punk", whatever you meant by that term. But, it seems that your post simply amounts to "strawman" fallacy. You try to redefine the goals of the imagionary group you projected as "reactionaries", so that they can be demonstrated to fail those goals, without proving they actually had these goals in first place. Perhaps (but not certain) being a "punk" is in your value system, not theirs. Or was at some point in your life, that's more likely, and then that would be the case of projection - projecting the image of your own younger self (the one who you were some years or decades ago) onto your "opponents" (in quotes because I am talking about the image in your mind, an abstract depersonalized image of collective of people who would oppose your views and expected by you to do it a certain way).
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Lobo
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Post by Lobo on Jan 6, 2021 12:46:46 GMT -5
Sheep.
Divide and conquer: oldest trick in the book. Blacks against whites Women against men Rich against poor Heterosexuals against gays Gays against transexuals Old against young Etc.
Victim olympics.
Finally, destroy the most basic building block of society: the family. Husband/wife was done away with years ago. And now even parent/child (don't want to infect older parent/covid19)
Cui bono?
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Jan 6, 2021 18:12:34 GMT -5
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Jan 6, 2021 18:14:29 GMT -5
(don't want to infect older parent/covid19)? definitely agree with the message except for this part, wtf?
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Post by deathevokation on Jan 7, 2021 0:46:25 GMT -5
I hope he gets life in prison. Fucking murderer.
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