Banned from Doomworld... Again (I regret writing all this)

Ok now that I've seen the thread... Joe man... You don't give your actions a single thought do you? I expected some bullshit but this is honestly a completely valid reason to ban you, given that you've been UNBANNED which is actually the first time I've seen that on doomworld.

I'll try to not be condescending, but there's one thing that helps me against making such mistakes. I ask myself if I've ever seen anyone else do something, and if I haven't, then it's probably a bad idea.

Also who's out there posting doomworld drama on 4chan?

- I don't really agree with "you were banned before, now will ban you instead of warning at the first mistake".
- Wasn't Doom Marine (the guy who makes Deus Vult II) effectively banned (losered?) for some years?

An interesting approach there you have against making mistakes, though. I actually think whether I should have refrained from posting in this thread in the first place, just wait till the facts pile up, and then laugh at people having an argument. Like with Mick Gordon not mixing his tracks.

Just to clarify... I know joe was hoping to return to Doomworld one day and I wanted him to become a respected member there. I'm not happy with him getting banned at all and I don't think he deserved this kind of treatment. But he completely botched the chance that was given to him by immediately starting a controversy and insisting that he's not doing anything wrong. This is not how you demonstrate that you've changed for the better, if that's important to you.

Making a map isn't rude, but publishing it into community project that doesn't allow you to claim a slot (either because it is already occupied by someone else - until that assignment is cancelled, or because there are no free slots, or because the rules of the project state you need to claim a specific slot before making a map) is.

Submitting a map to a slot someone else is holding is rude, regardless of what your opinion of their map. In fact, you _repeating_ statement of "underwhelming execution" is an offense in its own right, don't you fucking realize that harassing people with your opinions is wrong as well?

In fact, if you did this to me, I would have told you to fuck off. "Underwhelming execution in the former" - you should just shut the fuck up, if it is accepted to the project, I don't want to hear your opinion, stop harassing me by telling you do better. Underwhelming execution... what a fucking critic we have here. No, you didn't even realize what you did wrong - you are still doing wrong, it actually fucking concerns me that you might make a map to replace mine because you don't like some future map I make, and then you will persist about telling everybody how my map sucks. It is not for you but for the project leader to decide if the map is to be booted from the project and thus the slot freed, and it is usually only booted when the execution sucks so much it cannot be salvaged in any way.

You are free to make a map and publish it under your own name, without any community project. Better yet, without stating that you did this map because someone else contribution to some community project sucks, so you came up with idea how to make it better. While the latter won't be an offense (unless you keep repeating it), it would really be just better course of action to keep such a kind of inspiration to yourself. If your execution is that good, shouldn't really the map stand of its own?

I think submitting that map wasn't necessarily rude but the way Joe presented it certainly was. IMO he should have opened his post by praising the original map and acknowledging its strengths, saying that it's not a bad level but just not quite fitting for the Hangar slot. This would have made Joe look a lot more friendly. Also he shouldn't have written like ten posts arguing with everyone: silently waiting for the project leader to say what they think would have looked a lot less confrontational. And he REALLY shouldn't have said "the map will look so good, that you won't be able to resist not replacing the current E1M1 with my map". This was arrogant as fuck and it made him seem very unlikable. Seriously Joe, I'm willing to believe that you made your map because you were truly inspired to do so and not because you wanted to stir up controversy but goddamn, work on your manners man!

Imagine a guy is dating a girl and you think he is a poor match. So you walk in and ask the girl out in front of him. Would it be unreasonable for the pair to ask you to fuck off? Or do you bring up the argument "I though the girl would prefer me to that loser" as a defense? How would that defense hold if the situation escalates and you end up fighting, and then interviewed by the police? Do you acknowledge the fact that escalation is very much a possibility and that you should have seen it coming, and thus deliberately took chances with it? The fact that it still holds even if your opinion of the guy was true?

40oz,

1. I disagree with the stockholm syndrome line. It is actually much harder to reason with people that drive you nuts than to ban them. Linguica just chooses the easy option, but it is not right or wrong way of dealing, it is A way.
2. Your previous post about them trying to teach people is wrong. You assume that they try to teach, but they actually don't. They simply get rid of people when they can't cope with them. That's why most bans are permanent. They are not a lesson - they are way of removing a person you have hard time dealing with, and are unsure whether that person would really change their point of view and stop harassing, so you give up on it. And they don't have to deal with each person, as there is a lot of experienced mappers who don't pose the problem, so even if one person is experienced but hard to reason with, they are going to ban them.

I don't have the energy to expand on these points, but the joe-ilya insistence that he did nothing wrong almost drove me nuts. I actually wrote a third post containing a personal attack in the post field before joe-ilya posted his apology, but I didn't click the "Create Post" button. And it was a really smart decision - not to post what I have wrote - cause it could have blown up. And we would be heading a really different direction now. I almost got to a point when I decided that joe-ilya will never realize he is wrong, but I waited at the crucial moment, and then he seems to have proven me wrong. So what Doomworld does, is that they don't take chances. They don't bother to wait if the person can be reasoned, or if the person is really insane and incapable of understanding how their actions hurt others, and why other people want to stop them acting a specific way. They just lock problematic people out. People, after all, are expendable if you are such a big community. And you don't have to be accepting of people if you do it on your own money and for fucking a lot of years. It is not like Doomworld members are being taxed to keep the "goverment" running.

However, in your specific case, 40oz, I actually still think ban was not deserved, because I see no evidence in your post history on Doomworld that would warrant a ban.

I stand with DK and Gaspe here, I think Joe could very well reflect upon this experience and realise that stubbornness =/= strength, strength is taking the L and dealing with it, stubbornness is eating an alphabet soup of Ls and telling yourself it's a W

We sort of have a wall here. Of mean words. If you can't tolerate mean words but have the fortitude to get your banana flayed you got some fucked up priorities.

If you've never been banned from DW then there is something deeply wrong with you.

fyi this was resolved a month ago