Scythe 2 is the best megawad

Scythe 1 >>>>> Scythe 2

Hell naaa!

Scythe 1 is ok but its got too many tiny easy maps. Scythe 2 is definitely a more exciting experience. The way it starts off pretty easy and ramps up the monster density in the second episode, and then gets really hard towards the end is a nice and smooth difficulty curve, and IMO is the best approach to a megawad staying fun and enjoyable throughout.

AV is good in a lot of ways, and definitely has a bit more character and a story to tell, but the level designs are a little clunky at times, with detail in places that don't matter, and a lack of detail in places that look pretty plain and boring. The gameplay is a little choppy sometimes too, I think as is most mapsets that involve multiple mappers.

Scythe 2 is the father of modern mapping. It completely ditched exploration in favor of compact interconnected combat zones. It defined several popular textural themes and introduced countless architectural decisions that became the standard. It popularized episodic structure and demonstrated a clean mapping style that charmed everyone. Like deathevo said, nowadays it all looks kinda manufactured, but you can't deny that it pretty much changed the Doom world.

NO! In fact i wish to imitate some of it when i get used to mapping ;-) (but if "lacking character" is not recognizing someone in a cp, then really i can only guess correctly 30% of the time XD)

I also highly prefer Alien Vendetta - much more variety in map ideas while consistently remaining high-quality. I also adore Brad Spencer's techbase maps and Kim Malde's adventurous affairs with great thought put into architecture. Anders and co. really bring the package together for what I think a megawad should be - if you're going on a 32-map journey it's good to bring some friends with you for the ride. It's something I've sort of discovered over time even playing my own works. As much fun as it was to make a megawad alone, it honestly doesn't measure up to working with other people and just playing off of each other with map ideas and bringing the project together with a friend. I sort of drew a blur on Scythe 2's maps when I played it and maybe forgot half of the maps, despite having fun with them. I think there's maybe too much consistency that it may as well have been the same map continued in several parts. That's just how I feel about it anyway.

I also agree with memfis that having a lack of flaws can make some wads uninteresting; it's almost too clean and perfect to the point of not really getting to be as surprised with some really bizarre setups or something to throw a wrench into the cog system of trap setups. I think it's one of the things I struggle with as a mapper over time since my layouts are probably a little too clean in some places or stick too much to the grid, I'd like to stretch myself out of that and do some really odd-angled stuff.

[shitpost]I dont care what you say. Josh Sealy is probably the best mapper there ever was. He combines the best elements of Erik Alm, Darkwave0000 and Casali brothers to create the most epic maps ever. His small maps are sweet and condensed, often resulting in fast, action-packed gameplay, while his larger works are breath-taking, colossal playgrounds with lots things to kill. Not a single map in Resurgence felt rushed, stretched out, unnecessary, dumb or boring and that is a big achievement for a one man megawad (well, almost one man)[/shitpost]

Scythe was brilliant no doubt and is among my favorite Doom wads so far, but honestly I wouldn't go as far as say Eric is the best.

Since I'm almost done with AV and can have an opinion on it (and someone else already mentioned it here), I would say this wad is on par with Scythe, imo anyway, though they can't really be compared since Scythe only had very few slaughter maps whereas AV starts with the maps very early and doesn't stop with the concept, whereas Scythe tries quite a number of new ideas. Safe to say none of them have maps that sucks and play well though, but AV is very predictable in comparison, after the slaughter stuff starts you pretty much get the point of the whole deal, and stops being surprising.

I replayed it not so long ago... I would say that the gothic and egyptian episode didn't age in a good way. Things got better in the techbase and wasteland episode, and you can see that Erik Alm was more familiar with those themes. The jungle episode is the best, it still delivers a lot, followed by some maps of the hell part. The last map is one of the best endings ever made in Doom. Idk if I agree that the style looks manufactured, maybe now we are accustomed so much of it that it looks less impressive but it isn't Scythe 2 fault. And there's no wonder that that style become so popular, it looks cool and it's also rather easy to imitate.

Learn to play slaughterfests you scrubs.

I just replayed some of Scythe 2 this weekend and it actually doesn't look quite as good as I remember lol.

It still plays well though. A lot of the maps are really short, but they feel longer because of some of the monster grinding. I think Scythe 1 is mostly lower tier monsters if I remember correctly.

I dunno man.  I think 40oz is right on this one.

The thing about Alien Vendetta is that it lacks consistency.  You can compare certain levels from AV to most Erik Alm maps and they will be superior, such as the levels Kim Malde made, but AV can go from fantastic to mediocre in one map transition, while Erik stays consistently good the entire time.

And that's leads me to my second point.  Alien Vendetta just feels like a collection of levels.  Sure, they are great levels, but they don't tell a story or build on one another.  I believe that the ultimate goal of a megawad is to create a new game experience, a new adventure.  It isn't just a bunch of levels strung together, because you can just do that with a Doom frontend wad-launching application.  Scythe's levels all seem to flow together naturally.  It feels like a campaign from an actual commercial video game.  The difficulty curve is incredibly well-executed and offers the perfect amount of challenge at each stage.  The overall effect makes you want to play the entire thing in one sitting, because you can't wait to see how the next level will build on the one before it.  You just don't get that feeling from AV, and that makes sense because AV had so many different mappers involved.