this is a map I made; it is the first map I've made (well, 'finished' -- I've tried to make plenty of maps)
it's not polished but the exit is accessible and the main gameplay loop is done so in theory it's completeable; it isn't really ready for prime time but I think I'd benefit from some feedback from other people so here it is
(it's in map01 for convenience reasons; there are difficulty levels for testing purposes only. Easy = nomonsters for checking linedef specials, Medium = final battle testing, Hard = the complete experience)
please don't tell me about the terrible texturing etc., I know. I want to get the gameplay down pat before I spend too much time on the visuals, since I may have to make some major geometry changes. I'll also point out that I currently can't complete the final fleshy area without cheating so that isn't really 'finished' either. The techy bits are OK.
It's not much of a looker yet, as you admit, but I'm definitely digging the gameplay. The big fleshy area is especially fun, though it gets tough, and the archvile leading you on is a cool touch. I like how the earlier tech section acts as a prelude to the bigger setpiece, being a good deal gentler but with tight enough ammo that it's interesting dealing with the HKs, Cacos, etc. In the context of the set, your big fleshy section is a nice prelude to Glen's map, where the entire map is really a big version of that setpiece, complete with cacoball shooters and twisting skin paths.
So as far as critiques, I'd keep tweaking the final section to make it more manageable. An SSG might be welcome (I couldn't figure out how to get the RL). The balance on the early tech stuff feels nice to me, though it might be a little tight for some. Maybe a little extra secret ammo/armor--not too obvious, but something players would find if they had to restart the opening a few times--would help smooth that out for different play styles. Stylistically, the mix of tech and flesh is cool, especially how you've structured it here. The very first room could have some fleshy texturing behind and to the sides of the player, just to keep the feeling of tech inside a big flesh complex there from the very beginning.
lol you missed the 12 extra shells to the left in the second room. I put them in front of the shotgun, although there's only 4 of them now -- watching you play inspired me to tighten up the ammo a bit! I've scattered a few health and armour bonii around the joint too.
anyway thanks heaps for the demo and the nice feedback, it helped a lot. I made quite a few changes to the level, including a little experimentation with colour schemes in the flesh section -- it's still ugly as hell though. Here's a new version so you can see where it's at. Hopefully it's an improvement (I think it is, although I sort of miss how raw and hectic the first drafts were):
I like the concept, Bill will probably have more to say in detail and have possible balancing tips for you two. Just wanna mention two bugs I found: 1st area after dropping down there is a huge arse unclosed sector slime trail, you should have that locked down after playing with a few vertexes there, seems to be originating from the left "wall." 2nd bug is that on the upstairs path there are some midtex vines sunk into the floor that display weirdly and need the light level fix done to them.
Other feedback I have would be to mark the exit clearly, I don't think there's even anything hinting at it being the exit currently, but when you do it's gotta be big and clear. About the map name: I like the tentative name Damage Everywhere, but something with the word Run or another word that implies running would go a long way to be a fitting map title and give a player fair warning of what's to come in this map.
Well done dudes and congrats on the collab, it warms an old cunt's insides to see the two After the Fall debutants come together like this!
Last Edit: Sept 24, 2019 0:12:24 GMT -5 by glenzinho
as per earlier feedback, the final area is far more manageable, although I didn't add an SSG because I'm opposed to them for philosophical reasons (they're too good and so devalue the other weapons), but I made the RL easier to get (you can now approach it from all directions instead of just the front). Secrets have been added too -- they're not too hard to find, but if you want all of them, try looking behind you once in a while.
since making maps is fun I, uh, made another one, mostly so I could have a break from the first one once in a while. This one's a lot smaller and is just as ugly and unbalanced as the earlier public draft of the above was, so be warned.
Post by bigolbilly on Sept 26, 2019 23:34:06 GMT -5
Nice dmdr, the first map looks like it's getting pretty damn close. I'm very happy I don't have to worry about the visuals on this one--they're actually pretty amazing and cool now. Combat-wise, it's feeling a tad grindy on the front end and a little lethal on the backend. Given the lack of SSG, this might work nicely as an earlier map, which might especially warrant toning down the final section. But overall we're getting down to fine judgments, so this is a good sign.
I like the minimap quite a bit, too. Do you think you could finish it this weekend?
Thanks! I'm assuming by front- and backend you mean in terms of the map progression, yeah? (please extrapolate if not!). Earlier on, I could replace the teleporting cacos with a couple of demons each for a faster-to-kill alternative. Not sure what I'd do with the flesh area -- remove some of the lil' shits, lost souls, and those spectres to make it easier to dodge the many fireballs, I guess. Two chaingunners in the first enclosed stairwell (near the black waterfall) is probably too many as well. Any suggestions would be very welcome!
Anyway, yes, I'm planning to finish the minimap in a day or two but a little bit sick and considering that I grossly underestimated how long cleaning up the first would take, so I don't want to make any promises. Plus I don't have a specific texturing theme in mind (I'm not really happy with the textures I've used so far, and I don't want it to look too much like the big map) so that might delay things a bit. Worst case is I'll retheme and submit next month especially if too much time's being taken from the first map.
Post by bigolbilly on Sept 27, 2019 6:06:28 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry if that was unclear--earlier and later parts of the map (progression-wise).
Your ideas sound like good things to try. Let me give it one more spin later today and see if I can give some more specifics on combat tweaks. The compile grind is starting, so I'm a little discombobulated
There's still some visual stuff to be done and the last fight with the two archies is a bit luck based but I think I'm about done with this map unless you can think of anything. Gonna concentrate on squeezing out the minimap over the next couple days.
GET HYPED because I'm here to beg for attention ONE. LAST. TIME!!!
alright I think the minimap's gameplay is in a good place, and I've got a texturing theme that I think works, so I'm presenting it just in case somebody might have some suggestions before I start the beautification process. since the last draft:
+ somewhat better looking with fewer missing textures etc. (but still shit) + more room to move + 1 secret (with an ssg in it) + ((a little) easier at the start + harder at the end + moving platforms impeccably timed + has a name now -- Per Asspera, Ad Asstra + remembered to put in the exit lines
I also made myself a liar and modified the big level a bit:
+ 2 new secrets in the flesh cave (it had none before -- you can get an early RL and a second chance at the PG if you missed it in the nested secret) + replaced final green armour with a blue one, to allow you to survive a couple more archie blasts (makes getting blasted from the highest level a bit less devastating) + changed the existing secret's contents around a bit + moved those pinkies in the third room so they can see you more easily + also has a name: Voided (as in bowels. also a reference to the secret areas)
Post by bigolbilly on Sept 28, 2019 8:38:52 GMT -5
Nice dmdr, the minimap is starting to feel pretty good. I assume you know that there are still a fair number of missing textures, especially as things open up later in the map. But the combat is feeling good, and the last battle is a particularly fun set piece--it feels good to run around, keeps you on your toes without being frustrating, and the constantly slowly lowering walls feels like a big bowel movement haha.
edit: lol I just remembered I needed to realign a couple of switch textures. Fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow.
I've implemented some difficulty levels, although they haven't been extensively tested -- basically, you get more ammo and health on HMP or ITYTD/HNTR (much more in the latter case) and an SSG is available outside of the secret area on those diffs too, although at slightly different places. Easy's also had some of the more annoying monsters removed (no arach at the start, for instance). HMP's still fairly challenging. There's also been a general visual cleanup, as you'd expect -- hopefully I caught everything! In any case this is playable from start to finish on UV with no obvious bugs (I tested using Crispy).
For music, I had to IDMUS around (Slade won't play nicely with Fluidsynth for some reason so I couldn't give the midis a proper listen... welcome to Linuxtown) but D_IN_CIT, or whatever comes up when I type IDMUS09, seems pretty cool. I have no strong opinion on music though, I normally play -nomusic with mp3s in the background.
Anyway yeah, enjoy the level, and thanks again for taking the time to help me out.
Last Edit: Sept 29, 2019 6:30:12 GMT -5 by dmdr: i am dum
MAP17's music for Voided please (or whatever if someone's taken it, as said not that fussed).
Voided has had difficulty levels along the lines of Asspera's implemented but it hasn't all been extensively tested as mentioned. They're both playable start to finish with Crispy as mentioned, hopefully other ports follow suit. And, of course, first map! props to all logged in trolls.
Post by bigolbilly on Sept 30, 2019 9:04:52 GMT -5
Awesome dmdr, congrats on debuting with two very fine maps! I’m deep into finalizing the compile and will throw these in. I’ll try to catch any remaining errors as well, and will try to notify you if there are any big changes that seem needed (not likely in your case, I’m thinking). Stay tuned!!