Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 13:07:14 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I'm not exactly well versed or particularly well informed/invested in this matter, feel free to educate me.
Now apparently what has happened is that a Scottish YouTube personality has been arrested over an offensive joke video of him having his dog preform a Nazi salute to the phrase "gas the Jews".
He was allegedly found guilty of being "grossly offensive" and is to be found guilty of hate crime. Many are touting this as a nail in Free Speech's coffin whilst others say he deserved it.
What's your stance, I personally just like to remain silent on heated matters like this and observe everything that occurs to judge in the aftermath.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 20, 2018 13:52:46 GMT -5
1. I can't believe I have to say the following things.
2. Dogs are the sweetest most unconditionally loving animals in the world. They are not and will never be nazis, even if you taught it to bark the words of Mein Kampf
3. No one is on the fence about becoming a nazi and needs Count Dankula to confirm their desire for racial purity.
4. There is nothing and never has been anything wrong with Jews. People vary from person to person. It has nothing to do with race/religion.
5. Nazi jokes have only ever been funny because no one could possibly take a person lives in the shadow of Adolf Hitler seriously.
6. Prisons are for segregating murderers, rapists, and other dangerous individuals from society. Stop imprisoning harmless people.
7. If you're offended by a nazi joke, that's normal. Abusing your ability to be "offended" as a weapon to violate normal people with the long dick of the law is the path of fascism. Hate speech is mitigated by not paying any mind to it. People don't preech to empty theatres.
As far as the details of this case, I'll need more information to be more specific. But the fact that this is even becoming a thing is fucking terrifying and backwards.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 20, 2018 14:18:12 GMT -5
Damn the video was taken down already. For those of you who missed it, it appeared to be 45 minutes of a live recording of the outside of the courthouse where Lord Dankula was having his hearing. There was a lot of empty content afaik, I skipped around and didn't notice anything of note, but at the end of the video someone of whom I don't recognize or know his credentials came out of the courthouse with a few other people and spoke about it, saying that 3,000,000 people watched the video and only one confirmed person flagged it for being offensive and the judge still ruled Count Dankula guilty on the charge of "Gross Offensiveness" or something like that. He sounded really disappointed about the verdict.
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Post by liberation on Mar 20, 2018 14:34:09 GMT -5
It was one of those videos that was doing the rounds a while back, a cheap laugh for some. Pretty lame really. waste of tax payers money if you ask me.
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dn
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Post by dn on Mar 20, 2018 18:29:44 GMT -5
I am sooooo fucked.
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Justince
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Post by Justince on Mar 20, 2018 20:11:16 GMT -5
I saw some of this today, it's utter insanity. And if this is news to any of you, take a good long look, because this kind of bullshit is coming to your home town unless this stops now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 20:35:57 GMT -5
Yes, in my county misogyny is classed as a hate crime, the broad and warped application of that word makes it quite the wildcard.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Mar 20, 2018 23:59:28 GMT -5
Yes, in my county misogyny is classed as a hate crime, the broad and warped application of that word makes it quite the wildcard. No offense to the Brits, but your country is a joke. You guys have absolutely ZERO freedom of speech and are living in an Orwellian society run by retards. I find it disturbing that your overlords are prioritizing jailing youtubers for posting joke videos of a dog giving a Roman Salute, along with jailing people with un-popular political opinions that go against the stupid mainstream narrative. Really dumb. So correct me if I'm wrong, the follow topics would be considered a "hate crime" in the UK: 1) Making obvious satirical videos of a dog giving a Roman Salute 2) Criticizing feminism and stating that there are biological / psychological differences (which probably classifies as "misogyny" thus hate crime) 3) Speaking out against Islamic grooming gangs raping and selling 1400 girls into prostitution (Islamophobia) 4) Speaking out against the rising acid attacks committed by Muslims (also Islamophobia) 5) Having pro-white/Pro-British beliefs (Rayycism, thus hate crime)
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Post by Li'l devil on Mar 21, 2018 0:25:16 GMT -5
No offense to the Brits, but your country is a joke. You guys have absolutely ZERO freedom of speech and are living in an Orwellian society run by retards. Funny thing is, the events of Orwell's 1984 novel are indeed set in Britain.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 21, 2018 6:55:35 GMT -5
I always thought Scotland was pretty laxed about language policing. Did you see any of this coming?
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Post by liberation on Mar 21, 2018 11:20:54 GMT -5
I think Scotland is probably the worst part of the UK for this sort of thing, something todo with an old football law (celtic/rangers BS) that's in the process of being repealed.
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dn
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Post by dn on Mar 21, 2018 13:29:50 GMT -5
I always thought Scotland was pretty laxed about language policing. Did you see any of this coming? Yes and no. Fact is that the UK has no written constitution. None. Nada. We have no freedom of speech in the statute books; what we have is based upon hundreds and hundreds of years of judicial process. We don't check the constitution because it doesn't exist: we check legality by the judgments of our forebears. It's a fucked system. We need a constitution. If we were independent we'd have one. Now, hate speech laws were specifically designed to stop radical fucking preaching. Radical Islam, basically, but because no one wants to be accused of directly accusing Islam of being a bunch of explode-at-the-drop-of-a-hat mongoloids then the statute was written to encompass hate against all religions. Fair enough. Problem is that hate speech is entirely subjective. And Jews - fuck me, it would be the Jews, of course it is - are like fucking hyper-sensitive about this shit. Worse, there is a legion of mentally retarded fucking wankers who are going out and becoming offended on their behalf. And the current political climate of snowflakes shrieking makes me 100% unsurprised that this has actually happened. It's a fucked legal precedent that means that freedom of speech is dead in the UK and I can go to jail for offending someone’s feelings. Religion is now a fucking protected class in the UK. You cannot criticize it or make fun of it. Same goes for ideologies. Which is hilariously exactly the sort of fucking bullshit the law was originally meant to prevent. Your imaginary friend in the sky now has legal rights. Your imaginary gender now has legal rights. Your imaginary head-cannon now has legal rights. And if you think this is going to work to your advantage, oh snowflake of mine, you have no fucking idea just how authoritarian governments work. Not quite. The Rangers / Celtic thing is an offshoot of the Troubles in Ireland. Catholic and Protestant beating fuck out of each other for five hundred years +. The Pope's football team and the Queen's football team and their supporters going bullshit at each other and fucking wrecking the place every match day. I'm not 100% in favour of the anti-secretarian law in Scotland but it's a damn sight better than half of Glasgow burning down twice a year. What the law did (before the fucking Conservative government et al dismantled it in favour of a return to the Good Ol' Days of divide and conquer) was ban these fucking bigots gathering en masse. It's got more in common with the riot act than it does a censorship law. This ruling is entirely more sinister because it affects our democracy even though nobody voted for it.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Mar 21, 2018 14:11:33 GMT -5
I always thought Scotland was pretty laxed about language policing. Did you see any of this coming? Have you been living under a rock? Scotland is ultra left-wing anti-free speech like it's brother England. Problem is that hate speech is entirely subjective. And Jews - fuck me, it would be the Jews, of course it is - are like fucking hyper-sensitive about this shit. OI! WATCH THAT NAUGHTY SPEECH M8 OR I'LL REPORT YOUR ARSE TO THE QUEEN FOR HATE SPEECH YA FILTHY NAZI SCOTSMAN WANKER! /sarcasm Religion is now a fucking protected class in the UK Correction: CERTAIN religions are protected classes. Christianity is not one of those protected religions. You're free to bash Christianity with no negative repercussions because youer overlords don't give a shit about it. Same in the US. We have celebrities in the US who openly bash, mock, and slander Christians yet the most they would get is a slap on the wrist. You say 1 thing "mean" about Islam or Judaism, you'll lose your job, get sentenced to jail, and branded as a criminal for the rest of your life.
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dn
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Post by dn on Mar 21, 2018 16:29:22 GMT -5
Have you been living under a rock? Scotland is ultra left-wing anti-free speech like it's brother England. erm what Blue = Tories. also those last three red blocks? That's Tony Fucking Blair and Gordon Fucking Brown, who are collectively about as left wing as my right testicle. Scotland is lefty and has been for the past 70 years. England, however, is not.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 21, 2018 19:02:09 GMT -5
So what does free speech really mean? Count Dankula's case is pretty extreme. We call it free speech here in America but I've never really felt the need or been in a situation where I'd need to exercise it as far as it can go. I've only ever been accused of taking it too far on Doom forums. I've only ever talked on doomworld and on here as if I were talking to some close friends because... well that's what I consider you guys. Do you ever have to watch your mouth out in the public sphere?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 19:16:46 GMT -5
I check my tone in public, less our of fear and more our of common decency, however you can be brought up on harassment/bullying charges if you say something offensive to a friend but someone overhears it and takes offence.
I had a close call in town when I called a friend's limp punch a "the gayest punch I've ever seen", got off with a verbal warning from a "Community Patrol Officer" for my "homophobia".
It's a very bleak landscape in towns (much worse in the cities), get your language in line or in a cell you go, it's more relaxed in the villages where I am.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 19:32:23 GMT -5
...however you can be brought up on harassment/bullying charges if you say something offensive to a friend but someone overhears it and takes offence. I had a close call in town when I called a friend's limp punch a "the gayest punch I've ever seen", got off with a verbal warning from a "Community Patrol Officer" for my "homophobia". Are you being serious? I had no idea this kind of speech policing went on in other countries. I am so sorry for you, man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 20:15:46 GMT -5
Yeah, it's some next level retardation.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 21, 2018 20:24:50 GMT -5
No fucking way!
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Mar 21, 2018 20:40:35 GMT -5
I had a close call in town when I called a friend's limp punch a "the gayest punch I've ever seen", got off with a verbal warning from a "Community Patrol Officer" for my "homophobia". Wtf... Was an officer like hiding in bush and popped out why you said "gayest" to your friend? Does the average Brit actually support this extreme language policing, or do they just don't care?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 22:11:15 GMT -5
I had a close call in town when I called a friend's limp punch a "the gayest punch I've ever seen", got off with a verbal warning from a "Community Patrol Officer" for my "homophobia". Wtf... Was an officer like hiding in bush and popped out why you said "gayest" to your friend? Does the average Brit actually support this extreme language policing, or do they just don't care? He just overheard the conversation as we were walking by and stopped me to give me the grilling, I think he was trying to make a public example to earn brownie points because he's just one step above metre maid. As for the average Brit it depends on location, villagers and most townsfolk/cityfolk (more specifically working class/younger generations) in my region don't exactly give a shit as they are rough people and it's a very "mind your own damn business" styled community that'd beat you in the bushes rather than call the police (90's England style). However cities and closer knitted communities (usually higher/middle class) give more of a shit (areas where being in the general area wearing a hoodie earns a visit and a stern word from neighbourhood watch members) and appear to actively either go full SJW or, bizzarely, go full xenophobe. The real demon for it is anything governmental or business; any workplace, school, college, university or public area of interest (town/city centre) is a hive for PC rules and culture where saying jokes out loud will earn you anything from bad looks, tongue lashings (verbal tellings off) to physical confrontation from civies (I watched a man get in an argument with his GF just to have a crowd get invested and gang up on him for a "lack of respect" despite no knowledge of what actually happened, I had a pal working in retail verbally reprimanded for referring to a female customer as "love" in the old British shop greeting "ello love, what ya lookin for?", I had my college preform a mandatory "equality course" that tought us not to be offensive and also a course on how not to rape people, really) It'll also earn you the attention of the police if you get caught in the act of having innocent fun by them or if someone reports you (and believe me, people will report you for everything and anything). That's not even mentioning the full war on drugs styled "crackdown on cybercrime and online bullying/hatespeech", I was fucking nicked by a full geared up 3 man nick squad for a cybercrime I DIDN'T FUCKING DO and it took 6 FUCKING MONTHS for them to finish investigating me only to find out I wasn't their guy (shoot first, ask later, apparently) and the actual culprit had been able to cover his ass in the 6 months he got to hide! People are being fired and nicked all over for Facebook posts critical of Islam whilst actual fucking cross country hundred man and thousands victim Islamic based child rape operations are being failed to be investigated because, actual fucking quote from a PO, "We might face accusations of racism"... I'm actually terrified, I'm actually fucking terrified I'll be nicked for my humour, my opinions, I'm scared I'll be unemployed forever because of our MANDITORY DIVERSITY HIRE QUOTA which actively discriminate against MY GENDER, MY SEXUALITY and MY RACE, I'm so god damn terrified of this bleak, grim shitshow of a country that hates me and my kind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 23:01:24 GMT -5
Feelings > Rights, totalitarian governments love people vocally supporting a restriction of personal liberties for the sake of protecting fee-fees. Anyone who thinks occasional off-color Nazi jokes are responsible for the current (small) wave of Nazis are idiots, put simply. Wonder what will be the next set of ideas moved into the "illegal" category.
Someone preaching about how Nazism is a great way of life? Ok, I can see an argument there at least. Someone making a retarded joke though? Are you fucking serious?
I'm deeply bothered by the implications of this but by the same token I'm not at all surprised.
When can we start locking up the people who say things that offend me? Do my feelings not matter?!
(sigh)
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Mar 21, 2018 23:03:16 GMT -5
As for the average Brit it depends on location, villagers and most townsfolk/cityfolk (more specifically working class/younger generations) in my region don't exactly give a shit as they are rough people and it's a very "mind your own damn business" styled community that'd beat you in the bushes rather than call the police (90's England style). However cities and closer knitted communities (usually higher/middle class) give more of a shit (areas where being in the general area wearing a hoodie earns a visit and a stern word from neighbourhood watch members) and appear to actively either go full SJW or, bizzarely, go full xenophobe. I believe it. In the US most of the big inner cities are ultra left wing communities. Our more conservative leaning people typically are in the sub-urban and rural areas. The real demon for it is anything governmental or business; any workplace, school, college, university or public area of interest (town/city centre) is a hive for PC rules and culture where saying jokes out loud will earn you anything from bad looks, tongue lashings (verbal tellings off) to physical confrontation from civies (I watched a man get in an argument with his GF just to have a crowd get invested and gang up on him for a "lack of respect" despite no knowledge of what actually happened, I had a pal working in retail verbally reprimanded for referring to a female customer as "love" in the old British shop greeting "ello love, what ya lookin for?", I had my college preform a mandatory "equality course" that tought us not to be offensive and also a course on how not to rape people, really) It'll also earn you the attention of the police if you get caught in the act of having innocent fun by them or if someone reports you (and believe me, people will report you for everything and anything). Yeah pretty much all corporations and universities in the US have the PC culture. It's annoying and I keep my mouth shut because I don't want to risk anything. That's not even mentioning the full war on drugs styled "crackdown on cybercrime and online bullying/hatespeech", I was fucking nicked by a full geared up 3 man nick squad for a cybercrime I DIDN'T FUCKING DO and it took 6 FUCKING MONTHS for them to finish investigating me only to find out I wasn't their guy (shoot first, ask later, apparently) and the actual culprit had been able to cover his ass in the 6 months he got to hide! People are being fired and nicked all over for Facebook posts critical of Islam whilst actual fucking cross country hundred man and thousands victim Islamic based child rape operations are being failed to be investigated because, actual fucking quote from a PO, "We might face accusations of racism"... I'm actually terrified, I'm actually fucking terrified I'll be nicked for my humour, my opinions, I'm scared I'll be unemployed forever because of our MANDITORY DIVERSITY HIRE QUOTA which actively discriminate against MY GENDER, MY SEXUALITY and MY RACE, I'm so god damn terrified of this bleak, grim shitshow of a country that hates me and my kind. This is absolutely insane. I feel for you and I know it really sucks. Living in a country that stabs it's own native population in the back is absolutely demoralizing. I understand that the corporate jobs have these dumb diversity quotas (as they do in the US too). As a last resort, can you find a decent labor job that puts food on the table? It might be best to find these types of jobs in the more rural areas of England or Scotland I assume?
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dn
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Post by dn on Mar 22, 2018 2:04:38 GMT -5
Despite the Dankula case, there is nothing like what Joshmon describes happening in England up here (sans the worrying Dankula case). Honestly, I rarely have to watch my mouth at all, thank fuck.
I have heard about shit like that going on down south tho. Bradford etc have got some fucking HUGE problems with post WWII migrants who utterly failed to intergrate into the country and are basically schisming whatever community they ended up in. Snowflakism is apparently pretty rife in the universities down there as well: speaking as a fucking mature student up here in Scotland, I can confirm that they have tried to infect us as well but the native host here doesn't react well to that bullshit.
All of which is pretty fucking strange when you think about it. As I posted above, we are and have always been a left wing voting country. It's the fucking conservative (right) parts of the UK which are turning into fucking shitholes and I think what's going on is an extremely telling reaction to living in a more authoritarian country; people see the local government acting like fucking tory pigs and have adopted that behaviour themselves.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Mar 22, 2018 11:04:22 GMT -5
All of which is pretty fucking strange when you think about it. As I posted above, we are and have always been a left wing voting country. It's the fucking conservative (right) parts of the UK which are turning into fucking shitholes and I think what's going on is an extremely telling reaction to living in a more authoritarian country; people see the local government acting like fucking tory pigs and have adopted that behaviour themselves. To my point of view (along with the view of the average right-leaning American), the UK as a whole is left leaning. I view England is an authoritarian nanny state that enforces some of the most draconian anti-freedom laws known to mankind (all with the intentions of social tolerance, diversity, equality, public safety, blah blah blah blah... etc..) I would never want to live there.
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