GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 22, 2018 12:00:09 GMT -5
Okay, I feel like I have to bring this topic up due to the recent incident that happened last week and the media outrage that is ongoing. As you may already know, our president is a flip-flopper on certain topics when under pressure, and I've noticed that he knee-jerks to things too easily with little to no thought. He recently sent a tweet stating, "I will be strongly pushing comprehensive background checks with an emphasis on mental health. Raising the age to 21 and end sale on Bump Stocks!" I'm going to throw in my two cents here on this: >comprehensive background checks with an emphasis on mental healthFor the past few decades, politicians have been making this argument. Yes, people who are deemed mentally disabled, pronounced legally insane, and sent to mental hospitals either voluntarily or involuntarily have been subject for denial of gun purchases. However, there is a massive push for undergoing deeper mental health background checks for people who have a history of undergoing psychiatric help from non-mental hospitals. And not surprisingly, the main outcry from knee-jerk reactionaries is to "ban them from legally purchasing guns." This is the very definition of a blanket ban with little to no due process. In my opinion, this is to a degree unnecessary because the majority of gun homicides does not come from the mentally ill. Matter of fact, less than 5% of gun homicides are from people with mental illness. Source: psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/appi.books.9781615371099 By this "blanket banning" logic, anyone who has been to a psychiatrist for minor issues, such as ADHD or mild Anxiety, is automatically banned? That's infringing upon the 2A, especially since the 2A is an individual right. This "emphasis" on mental health sounds extremely vague. Who is prohibited under this category? A violent schizophrenic, or a harmless nonviolent person with ADHD who needs medication just to pay attention in class, or a person who has difficulty falling asleep due to anxiety? A blanket ban could likely result in a quarter of the country's adult population being banned because of this. I've also heard both Republicans and Democrats say, "Well these people can just make an appeal in court if they feel like they are wrongfully prohibited." Umm... I take it these people don't realize how excruciatingly difficult it is getting an appeal to a denial of purchase. 1) These type of judicial processes are NOT exactly streamlined. 2) It will be extremely difficult as it will make doctors feel LIABLE by granting a person approval to legally own firearms. The US is a sue-happy country, and nothing scares people more than the words "liability" and "lawsuit." That said, doctors can say, "I'm not signing off on anything... go find another doctor." This is a CYA (Cover your ass from liability). TL;DR, I don't think I approve of this. The emphasis on "mental health" and "who's banned and who's not" needs to be defined much clearer. The idea of "blanket banning" is draconian and unconstitutional. And I don't want to hear "Oh this is a slippery slope fallacy with no basis of evidence." Try living in one of the many blue states with strict gun control, and you will see how people get denied gun licenses (or FID: Firearm Identification Purchase Cards) for mental history reasons, regardless of severity. The appeal process takes a long time, and is not guaranteed to be granted. >Raising the age to 21.And what exactly is this going to do? I don't get it... there have been shooters well above the age of 21. You might as well raise the voting age and military age to 21 too. >End sale on Bump StocksThey are actually called slide fire stocks. These are too easy to manufacture (especially with a 3D printer) and banning the sale of them won't do anything. That's pretty much my two cents on this tweet. Anyway, I would like to hear other people's opinions on this.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 22, 2018 15:19:35 GMT -5
I too, really don't see any benefits for laws that restrict guns further. There's a general message that keeping guns away from more people will make the whole country safer and I just don't know this to be true. And I'm speaking as someone who has never considered owning a gun or have ever experienced a situation where me or someone I trust having a gun would have made anything any better.
Kelly Brogan is a holistic women’s health psychiatrist, and she makes some pretty powerful points in that more and more people are anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications. One thing she said on a podcast I was listening to that stuck out to me was that whenever there's a mass shooting, the first question she asks before anything else is "What kind of meds was this person on?"
The reason being is that so many different mental health medications are very incompatible with each other and using different combinations of them can completely block off parts of the brain responsible for feelings of empathy, so people like this shooter can just fucking walk into a school like the terminator and shoot people he doesn't like and not feel any remorse as he's doing it.
She makes a really compelling argument that the way people live their lives is not very natural or healthy and so anxiety and depression comes from it, but too many people want to take the easiest solution, which is to pop a pill in the morning and be happy instead of trying anything else, such as changing your diet or developing an exercise routine or volunteering to help society or whaetever. Not to say those are the solutions to anyone's mental illness, but there really shouldn't be this many people who have tried everything that are still suffering from poor mental health.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 22, 2018 20:23:47 GMT -5
Kelly Brogan is a holistic women’s health psychiatrist, and she makes some pretty powerful points in that more and more people are anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications. One thing she said on a podcast I was listening to that stuck out to me was that whenever there's a mass shooting, the first question she asks before anything else is "What kind of meds was this person on?" The reason being is that so many different mental health medications are very incompatible with each other and using different combinations of them can completely block off parts of the brain responsible for feelings of empathy, so people like this shooter can just fucking walk into a school like the terminator and shoot people he doesn't like and not feel any remorse as he's doing it. She makes a really compelling argument that the way people live their lives is not very natural or healthy and so anxiety and depression comes from it, but too many people want to take the easiest solution, which is to pop a pill in the morning and be happy instead of trying anything else, such as changing your diet or developing an exercise routine or volunteering to help society or whaetever. Not to say those are the solutions to anyone's mental illness, but there really shouldn't be this many people who have tried everything that are still suffering from poor mental health. I agree with this. I do believe the environment a person is in does play a significant role in a person's mental health. Styx explains why this "mental health" proposal is wrong @4:15:
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Feb 23, 2018 8:51:03 GMT -5
How come Trace hasn't found this thread yet??
Honestly, dudes, if I were you, I'd do what all sane countries do and make the process of obtaining guns WAY harder, if not impossible. Screw your american fundamentals like your god-given right to bear arms. That's a leftover from the 18th, EIGHTEENTH, century ffs, that's not even Wild West times yet! Yeah, back then you might've needed a gun. Hunting, defending against Indians or desperados or bandits or whatever. In 2018 there's no good reason for anyone at all to have a firearm.
When's the last time you heard of a school shooting in Europe? ANYWHERE ELSE BUT AMERICA??
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 24, 2018 1:04:05 GMT -5
Because it's the "current year" is a weak argument Xeep. People use firearms as a means of protection and hunting. No "current year" is ever going to change that. >Screw your american fundamentals like your god-given right to bear arms.
I take it you don't understand the reason why we have it in the first place. >"When's the last time you heard of a school shooting in Europe? ANYWHERE ELSE BUT AMERICA?? "
Yeah I'll just leave this here.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Feb 24, 2018 5:03:40 GMT -5
I take it you don't understand the reason why we have it in the first place. I understand why you had it. But not why you still have it. Explain this to me. People use firearms as a means of protection and hunting. When's the last time you did? 75% of you fat capitalist homicidal swines live in cities. That might be an incorrect figure but I don't care nor I should. In cities, you don't really have to rely on yourself for protection, let alone hunting. Instead, you leave that to people who Do It Better: police and army in case of protection and... butchers I guess in case of hunting. Modern society isn't that bad of a thing, ya know? :] There's literally no reason for a man living in the modern age to possess a firearm, perhaps excluding recreation. So in 2013 you guys had 25 shootings, according to that article. Meanwhile, in the civilized world: - 1 shooting in Canada; - 1x in Nigeria. That's it. So you had 12x more school shootings than the rest of the world c o m b i n e d . For 2014 it's not much better. Perhaps even worse, but I can't be bothered to count. For 2017 the numbers are slightly more in your favour, but still nothing to be proud of: - 9x for capitalist swine land; - 1x in Mexico; - 1x in France; - 1x in Brazil. That's 3x more than in the civilized world, as you can see. So are you advocating the fact that you guys are several times more fond of blasting each other's brains out due to having the possibility of doing that??
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sarais
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Post by sarais on Feb 24, 2018 10:41:38 GMT -5
it's not going to fix SHIT. ban guns? now there's stabbing. dumb fucks.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 24, 2018 13:22:07 GMT -5
James Madison drafted the 2a and here is why we still have it. It keeps a balance of power. That was/is supposed to by the purpose of it. I've made posts in the past on DW explaining the US gun homicides and methods of curbing it without taking away the 2a. You can read them here (my DW nick is DG93). The majority of our gun crime/homicides come from drug related gang violence and there are ways we can easily curb this without gun control. FYI, the US gun crime/homicides have been dropping throughout the years, yet the US has been laxing their gun laws. School shootings at a large scale (such as the Florida shooting) became a prevalent issue from the late 80s/90s - today. Decades ago, people were able to purchase automatics with little to no regulations, yet large scale school shootings were virtually non-existent. If you read through the stats, very few people died between the decades of the 1900's - 1950's, yet full/semi-autos were available back then with little to no regulations. Answer me this, what changed? I don't believe it's "gun availability" that is the reason for this. There is something much deeper that we need to fix as a society. The US has a very strong gun culture and saying "just ban everything" will only promote black market gun sales and black market manufacturing, which many of the criminals get their guns illegally manufactured or smuggled in the country. It's about supply and demand. High demand, can lead to high supply.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 24, 2018 13:45:59 GMT -5
People use firearms as a means of protection and hunting. When's the last time you did? 75% of you fat capitalist homicidal swines live in cities. That might be an incorrect figure but I don't care nor I should. In cities, you don't really have to rely on yourself for protection, let alone hunting. Instead, you leave that to people who Do It Better: police and army in case of protection and... butchers I guess in case of hunting. Modern society isn't that bad of a thing, ya know? :] There's literally no reason for a man living in the modern age to possess a firearm, perhaps excluding recreation. Umm last year when I went on a hunting trip with a friend? I've never been in a situation where "I" needed to use a firearm in defense. But what's your point? I have fire extinguishers in my home just in case there is a fire that needs to be extinguished..... even though I'm not expecting any fires, but they are there just in case. Welcome to ultra-progressive France :] >75% of you fat capitalist homicidal swines live in cities.Yeah? And the majority of gun homicides come from retarded gangs shooting each other because "muh drugs n***a' ... again what is your point? In cities YOU HAVE to rely on yourself for protection. The average police time to response is like 10 minutes. A LOT can happen in that duration of time if you are trapped and defenseless. Jesus man lol "A-HA! I'll whip out my mobile phone while a deranged criminal is trying to kill me, good thing we don't need a weapon! I can call the police!" >Modern society isn't that bad of a thing, ya know? :]You live in a tiny homogeneous country (Serbia right?) no bigger in the US state I live in. Go take a look at the homicides and violence from inner cities in other "diverse" European countries. Tell that to all the women in Sweden getting murdered and raped by armed migrants with guns, grenades, and knives. I guess modern society in Germanistan is great too
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 24, 2018 13:58:31 GMT -5
So in 2013 you guys had 25 shootings, according to that article. Meanwhile, in the civilized world: - 1 shooting in Canada; - 1x in Nigeria. That's it. So you had 12x more school shootings than the rest of the world c o m b i n e d . For 2014 it's not much better. Perhaps even worse, but I can't be bothered to count. For 2017 the numbers are slightly more in your favour, but still nothing to be proud of: - 9x for capitalist swine land; - 1x in Mexico; - 1x in France; - 1x in Brazil. That's 3x more than in the civilized world, as you can see. So are you advocating the fact that you guys are several times more fond of blasting each other's brains out due to having the possibility of doing that?? If you even read through each of those incidents, some of those shootings are from either an accidental discharge of a firearm (like a teacher or officer dropping a gun from their holster) or from perpetrators outside the campus who discharged a firearm during a robbery. Not every single one of those "shootings" were Columbine-tier. Brazil and Mexico may have low instances of school shootings, and have strict gun control is true... However, these countries have EXTREMELY high rates of homicides, especially firearm related homicides. Brazil and Mexico have a fuck-ton of gun murders each year.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Feb 24, 2018 15:59:39 GMT -5
Stupid proboards keeps popping up some crap and forcing me to rewrite my witty defense over and over again. I'll write a reply tomorrow. Bleh.
(I'll reply to your second post tho: you linked to the school shootings wikipedia page, so naturally I used it as a basis for identifying the FLAWS OF YOUR ARGUMENTATION BWAHAHA)
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 24, 2018 17:01:38 GMT -5
Stupid proboards keeps popping up some crap and forcing me to rewrite my witty defense over and over again. I'll write a reply tomorrow. Bleh. (I'll reply to your second post tho: you linked to the school shootings wikipedia page, so naturally I used it as a basis for identifying the FLAWS OF YOUR ARGUMENTATION BWAHAHA) Yeah Proboards is kind of buggy. I lost my original response too (which was actually much longer lol). I posted the wikipedia link because it documented school shootings per year from each country. "The current year!" That's a pretty darn flawed argument there son )
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Feb 24, 2018 17:30:23 GMT -5
So are you advocating the fact that you guys are several times more fond of blasting each other's brains out due to having the possibility of doing that?? >due to having the possibility of doing that??What? I have no idea what this even means. Please clarify?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 19:14:12 GMT -5
1. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
This time-tested adage simply means that changing laws in order to restrict law-abiding citizens from obtaining firearms will only prevent good people from getting guns. Criminals, by definition, do not obey laws. So banning certain firearms or firearm-related products will only mean that people who obey laws won't get them. The criminals will still obtain them illegally. If you can't grasp that concept, you are most likely retarded.
2. We cannot un-invent guns.
Pandora's box has been opened, and you can't close it. Any weapon technology, once it has been discovered, cannot be erased from human information databases. This is the same for nuclear weaponry, swords/knives, flamethrowers, napalm, chemical weapons, bombs, grenades, bazookas, etc. Humans are war-like creatures. The best we can do is to arm good people. Taking arms from the best of the human race allows the worst to rise up and overpower everyone.
3. A massive campaign to confiscate all guns in America WILL NOT WORK!
The amount of guns in America legally owned by decent Americans and the rich history we have with firearms helping to found our country is such that any attempt to gun-grab will never fly. You know that to be true. Anyone who says otherwise is living in a fantasy-world. Being truly free means having the ability to protect yourself and your family from threats both foreign and domestic. Guns help in service of that freedom.
It's common to hear morons from other countries guffawing and making snide comments out of the sides of their mouths about how much better their gun violence statistics are then ours. But that doesn't tell the whole story. Not every country has the same type of people. You really have to accept this. Some countries are simply more peaceful. I'm sorry that that isn't politically correct, but it's true. Certain people and certain cultures are simply not going to engage in the same behavior as other people/cultures will, so often it's an apples to oranges comparison. Why is South America such a dangerous place? Is it because they don't have enough gun legislation or enough State control, or because the citizenry itself is more violent? I would submit that it's the latter.
Guns are just a tool. Yes, a tool. The same as a chainsaw, a bottle of poison, a stick of dynamite, a steak knife, a crowbar, or a motor vehicle. A person could easily kill any one of you with those things I just mentioned. So why are they legal? Any tool is useless without a human to control or operate it. If denied one tool for killing, humans will simply use another tool to accomplish the same thing. I can tell you right now that a person could kill a whole lot more people with a car than with a AR-15. Like, way more people. All you have to do is find an area that you know is heavily trafficked by pedestrians, gas up your car/truck and reinforce the windows/doors/bumpers, wait until peak hours, then drive to that location and run up on the curb. We saw that in Paris.
My final point is that this issue is used purely to excite the bases of various political party and it will never be resolved, nor do any politicians want it to be resolved. If the issue was actually fixed one way or the other then the political parties using it could no longer use the issue to energize their base. You want to lessen gun violence? Find a way to ensure that more people stay married and decrease divorce rates in the country. Find a way to ensure males stay and act as fathers to their children when they impregnate women. Find a way to return morality to society and de-sensationalize violence and drug use. Doing those things will have the effect you people are looking for.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Gun Reform
Feb 26, 2018 23:32:22 GMT -5
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Post by TOS on Feb 26, 2018 23:32:22 GMT -5
How come Trace hasn't found this thread yet??... ...When's the last time you heard of a school shooting in Europe? ANYWHERE ELSE BUT AMERICA?? Sure, but how many large scale terrorist related incidents have happened in Europe over the last five years compared to America? Man...if only there was a large amount of citizen gun owners willing and allowed to defend themselves. There, I found the thread.
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BIG DICK NIGGA
this post is a lie about my bodily proportions
Major Arlene obsessed, 100% verified freakazoid. AKA bzzrak
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Post by BIG DICK NIGGA on Feb 27, 2018 10:17:09 GMT -5
GRUGI agree with your point about how there's something rotten in society other than gun availability. But still, times are changing, CURRENT YEAR ARGUMENT, people are getting more violent, and it has to be prevented don't ya think? Yeah JUST banning guns ain't gonna solve a damn thing. Indisputable. There's more than that that must be done, but disabling poeple from going on shooting sprees by making it hard af to obtain guns is totally a step in that direction. About the police argument: making them more competent would go hand in hand with that. So yeah I agree with that too. It's not just about disarming everyone. That alone wont do a thing. It's more about arming only the right people (DA POLEES in this case), or something. :] @vordakk So are you saying that the last train has left and than nothing can be done anymore, since guns have become such an integral part of American culture (i giggled) that any attempt to take them away would fail??? TOSYeah, but that's only due to the goddamn migrants and not the subject here.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Gun Reform
Feb 28, 2018 11:08:45 GMT -5
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Post by TOS on Feb 28, 2018 11:08:45 GMT -5
Okay, so going forward we are to ignore all dangers present in certain parts of Europe that could be defended against if the citizens were armed.
Got it.
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Feb 28, 2018 12:11:49 GMT -5
I realize the significance of guns in the United States and the role it plays on the large scale. It makes sense and I can't really refute it. It's pretty solid. What I do wonder however, is the relevance of guns from person to person.
Myself, personally, feel no use for owning a gun. This has no bearing on my instability as a person, I just don't see anything useful coming out of it. I don't like the idea of being so close to certain inescapable death. I'd have extra worry with making sure it's locked in a safe place where I can access it quickly if I needed it, and impossible to get for anyone else. I had my house broken into once before, but they were in and out so quickly, there's no way that having a gun would have made any difference. A little blue ADT Home Security stop sign in front of my door would have been much better.
Even if not to fire the gun, I also feel just as uncomfortable using it as a means of intimidation. I've been in dangerous neighborhoods and there are other ways of giving off a 'don't fuck with me' vibe even if you're completely defenseless. Carrying a gun around just means someone could try and snatch it from me and kill me with it. Sure, there's sufficient training you can develop to prevent that from happening but I don't see the use if I don't even like having the gun in the first place.
But lets say I do like guns. What can I do with it? I can take it to a secured range and pay money to shoot at paper targets so I can feel ready if I actually do need to shoot something with it, which will never happen. Or I can go hunting and kill animals with it, which doesn't really appeal to me anyway. I've only ever seen people talk about guns and clean them and take them apart so they can reassemble them again. It just seems like a complete nuisance and unnecessary anxiety. I like the power they have in video games and movies, but other than that, I really don't think I'd feel any safer with a gun than I would without.
I've had one bad experience at a barbecue where I was surrounded by US Marines and they thought I was a liberal whackjob for not talking about guns with them, and they seemed so deeply invested in gun ownership that I couldn't bring them down to my level to talk about it with me. It still makes no sense to me.
:-X
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 1, 2018 12:06:49 GMT -5
Dicks Sporting Good's is feeling a little guilty following the most recent Florida school shooting.
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TOS
You're trying to say you like DOS better than me, right?
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Post by TOS on Mar 2, 2018 16:45:08 GMT -5
I always cringe when I hear "assault style".
Assault style, to me, describes an act or an intention. What makes a weapon an "assault" weapon? It's black? It looks "scary"? What prerequisites need to be met for a weapon to be considered an assault weapon?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 16:46:31 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 21:33:56 GMT -5
Welp, looks like I'm never shopping at Dick's Sporting Goods again.
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GRUG
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Post by GRUG on Mar 12, 2018 20:43:49 GMT -5
Modern society isn't that bad of a thing, ya know? :] There's literally no reason for a man living in the modern age to possess a firearm, perhaps excluding recreation. Xeep-Eep, Do you reconsider your position on this now? doomer.boards.net/thread/1106/land-invasions-happening
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40oz
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Post by 40oz on Mar 20, 2018 12:41:35 GMT -5
Holy shit, another high school shooting today -- Great Mills, Maryland. (posted in gun reform thread because... yknow)
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agent6
Doomer
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Post by agent6 on Mar 20, 2018 14:53:06 GMT -5
Holy shit, another high school shooting today -- Great Mills, Maryland. (posted in gun reform thread because... yknow) Oh come on now, yet again? I really wonder sometimes just why does this keep happening, and why so often. Is no one capable of finding the root cause, or do they just don't care enough to do it?
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